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Is it appropriate for SINGLE boys/ girls to participate in SEED’s kiruv program. Are they putting themselves at risk of falling in frumkeit while trying to be mekaraiv others?
Note: This seems to be a different user than the anonymisss who usually posts.
as a Rav once said when asked:
“When a broom sweeps the floor, the broom will inevitably get dirty… But if the broom won’t sweep the dirt, who will?”
as a Rav once said when asked:
“When a broom sweeps the floor, the broom will inevitably get dirty… But if the broom won’t sweep the dirt, who will?”
sometimes one can wash the broom if he really tries, scrubs and sweats, but sometimes the stains remain there for a long time…
My middle son participated in a Seed program when he was single. Neither he nor his Chaverim were stained with any schmutz from any source by this program. He is now starting his fifth year learning in Kollel. The best way to run any Kiruv program is to take really Stark men, whether married or single and have a Mashgiach or Shoel uMeshiv with them to monitor their involvment.
ambush
Member
as a Rav once said when asked:
“When a broom sweeps the floor, the broom will inevitably get dirty… But if the broom won’t sweep the dirt, who will?”
this is a bad Mashul becaus brooms are something that we are willing to sacrifice to get dirty
are our yidishe children something we are willing to use to sweep floors
not that seed is a bad program but the people running the programs should make sure thatthe “brooms” are “stain proof” brooms. meaning they should only use boys who are advanced in their self control that there is no chashash they will chas v’shalom be effected in any way
Ish52: i agree, it might not have been phrased the right way.
Bottom line, the Rav was saying that there really isn’t (or rarely) such a thing as “stain proof brooms”, meaning, how can one be assured, that THIS boy/girl is so shtark/so much self control or whatever, that they won’t be effected?
just as a side point, although kiruv in this way is not for everyone, these programs often give a huge amount to the community, and in addition gives a HUGE amount to the person doing the kiruv, often making them stronger in many ways.
When a person is asked questions about what he believes, or why he believes, he’s forced to think, and ask those questions back to himself, in a pretty strong way.
and when a person is faced with ‘opposition’, he has the potential to grow stronger…
Why does the original question stress “single”- is a married person less vulnerable to the yetzer hara?
areivim, I was wondering the same.
~a~ the real one
Wooooooow. When CAN and SHOULD our kids stretch themselves and see what they’re made of? B”H for all the wonderful options our single kids (especially the ones who aren’t straight out of h.s./sem) to contribute meaningfully.
The halacha is clear. We don’t tell a person to sin so his friend can become holy. After Har Sinai there is no such thing as an aveirah lishmah being permitted. One is NOT ALLOWED to sin, even for kiruv. Please find me any posek who says otherwise.
areivim, not that it has not happened to someone married, but its much easier for someone who is not married to get “dirty”. At the same time, I am all for the right people doing kiruv whenever possible, but I think stories of marriages that didnt make it because of this are swept under the rug.
Jothar, I think being in a committed marriage tends to keep you “in-bounds” more than being single. If you look at the “older” singles, they tend to get very right wing or very modern. Also, when you love your spouse, you are willing to make sacrifices for them, and if that means maintaining a level that is more strict than you might want at the moment, you can do it more easily than if you didn’t have that.
The conservative movement started out as “kiruv” too. “Let’s change the halacha to keep them coming into shul.” Kiruv is wonderful when it’s done by people who are a maayan hamisgabeir, and can give without being emptied. When it’s done by mashpi’im it’s wonderful. When it’s done by mushpa’im it’s a kilkul. I would love to know who the rabbi being quotes
True story. A rabbi in an out-of-town community is always being harassed by a “kiruv rabbi” in the same community. Then the rabbi finds out that this “kiruv rabbi” is being mezaneh with a shiktza! The rabbi confronts the “kiruv rabbi” about it, who says, “This is a milchama, and in a milchama a yefas to’ar is muttar”. SEED was originally started to be bochurim learning in places in the summer. It wasn’t about partying in the name of kiruv. The frum velt long ago rejected the “Negiah Can Save Yiddishkeit” approach to kiruv, which led to a massive scandal in said organization.
I remember hearing the Baltimore community was started by a SEED (or SEED type) program. Anyone remember hearing that?
there is really much to be said on the kiruv topic…
i just want to add in 2 points:
1.I believe it was the Chofetz Chaim (correct me please if i’m wrong) who said that just as one needs to set aside a 10th of a persons money for maaser, for tzedakah, so too a person has an obligation to set aside a 10th of there time to kiruv.
2. having said that, kiruv is not necessarily and only going out to the wilderness or wherever and being mekarev. for those Yidden who don’t agree with such an approach, kiruv can be also SMILING AT THE CASHIER!
Kiruv- to bring closer- there are many ways to bring His children closer. Invite them for a meal. Or if you don’t want to be so out there, try this, we did it, send it anonymous [or not… ;)], a small menorah with candles and the Brachah for Chanukah, something cute for Pesach… all these are ways to bring closer…
Any other ideas?
kapusta, i’m third gen. balto. and never heard that.in fact i know of a chashuv r.y . who sent young men to out of town communities who needed a boost.
SEED is VERY chashuv. Kiruv is VERY chashuv. Destroying your ruchnius is not, and is atzas hayetzer. Gesher tzar me’od.
Is the SEED program only in the summer or does it run all year round?
Sorry, my hands were full and I couldn’t type much. A chashuve r.y. sent some Baltimore boys to the midwest about 50 odd years ago or so to build up there. So there was some vibrancy in Balto. well before SEED came around. NI’s been there since the mid 30s; Rav Schwab zt”l came to town then too. There were already a number of talmidei chachamim in town before, such as Rabbi Yehuda Davis and Rabbi Feldman, for starters, and a number of very committed shomrei Shabbos.
areivim: i’m not sure if you were asking seriously, or trying to get this thread back on topic! what ever it was, i’ll put in what i know about SEED!
Is the SEED program only in the summer or does it run all year round?
the SEED program is a summer program, they do camps, take the older kids-teen on trips, take them on road trips in the summer….ect.. during the rest of the months, they encourage the boys/girl on SEED to keep up with the children they met on SEED! they keep up via calling, email, text..! & they do send them back to the communities during the year for shobbos chanukah, Thanksgiving week, on midwinter break, around purim & pesach for a shobbos shobbaton to teach about the yom tovim!
I used to participate in a SEED program. When run well, they are a tremendous boon to the community. In my yeshiva, when the guys would come back for the winter, they would refer to it as WEED.
Summer SEED season is almost here! Anybody here doing SEED? what do you think is better seed or camp?
Most important rule for any type of kiruv work:
Avrohom was mekareiv anoshim; Sora was mekareiv noshim.
I’m not sure what the original poster was refering to but it depends on which SEED program. My vary close friend (single girl going into sem) went to Palo Alto and it was totally fine, she was supervised when she had any contact wit the girls. When married couples go, they have to be waaaaay more careful.
ambush quoted the 10% chofetz chaim quote. Does anyone have the source for it? Thanks
Sefer Ahavas Chesed
How do you apply for SEED?
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