Suffering and Emuna.

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  • October 17, 2013 1:39 am at 1:39 am #610918
    Lost1970
    Member

    Unfortunately for many people suffering weakens Emuna. I have heard a lecture about Iyov denying the World to Come and Resurrection.

    A paradoxical case is when suffering causes a non-believer to return to G-d. I have read a blog of a Buddhist who became a monotheist (and thus a follower of the Seven Laws of Noach after a great misfortune.

    October 17, 2013 5:35 pm at 5:35 pm #979123
    MDG
    Participant

    I would say that many so-called believers are not as strong in their beliefs as their image projects. On the other hand, some people have emunah that has yet to be developed. It just takes something to bring it out.

    October 17, 2013 7:02 pm at 7:02 pm #979124
    rebdoniel
    Member

    It’s klar that HaShem gives yissurim to those He believes can handle them; suffering is seen in the Torah as something which increases faith and builds character.

    October 17, 2013 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #979125
    Rav Tuv
    Participant

    RD- Hashem KNOWS what someone can handle…he doesn’t believe it.

    October 17, 2013 8:27 pm at 8:27 pm #979126
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    [???? ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ????? <????? (???? ??) ?? ?? ????? ??? ????? ????? ????> ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ????

    BB 16b

    October 17, 2013 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #979127
    ikno
    Member

    the rabeinu yona says that before a person is born, hashem asks him if he accepts his life challenges, and the person has a full choice, and the gan eden for such a person is undescribable… so we all chose our lives, they may be tough but it was our choice…

    another sharp line heard from a chashuva person,

    “where hashem puts a period, we don’t put a question mark”

    October 17, 2013 10:50 pm at 10:50 pm #979128
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    I don’t see why this must be one or the other. For some people suffering strengthens faith while for others it weakens it. It probably depends on the personality and makeup of the person.

    The Wolf

    October 17, 2013 11:31 pm at 11:31 pm #979129
    Lost1970
    Member

    >> I would say that many so-called believers are not

    >> as strong in their beliefs as their image projects.

    Definitely. Actually most religious Jews withstand suffering very well.

    Those who worship idols easily give up their beliefs for the Laws of Noach.

    October 17, 2013 11:38 pm at 11:38 pm #979130
    Lost1970
    Member

    >> another sharp line heard from a chashuva person,

    >> “where Hashem puts a period, we don’t put a question mark”

    Definitely, a human has no right to argue with G-d. One temptation of idol worship is that people can argue with idols.

    October 18, 2013 12:12 am at 12:12 am #979131
    ikno
    Member

    i didnt mean it that you can’t argue….

    this quote was meant as a chizuk for after someone was niftar…. when Hashem decides to end something, we may not have questions. we have to realize its all for the best.

    if you can argue with idols, then obviously then they have no power, so why would u be even tempted to worship something that has no power/ where would that get you?

    October 18, 2013 12:25 am at 12:25 am #979132
    rebdoniel
    Member

    Chutzpah klapei shamayim seems to be a pretty well-documented inyan to me.

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