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To all: Of course, the reason Dooms keeps calling people liars and keeps barfing up the same nonsense over and over again is because she knows that nothing she is saying has any data or science behind it. This is what she’s been fed by the anti-vaxxers network and, not having the capacity to think on her own, she just keeps spitting the same thing out. I really feel sorry for her. She needs to get a life.
@shragi: They blow it out of proportion to seem like a massive epidemic and misinform the public.
I can’t believe I am even approving this post with these last lines…—-> moderator
This is a true statement that shragi makes–it occurred last winter with the so called Flu epidemic. This is from cnn:
“One hundred and eighty kids — this really hit me hard as the father of three kids — died last year from the flu. And the majority of them were unvaccinated,” said US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome M. Adams. speaking at a news conference hosted by the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases on Thursday. “Flu vaccinations save lives.”
Oh really? Would not a scientist have to compare this number with how many died from the vaccine? Either the US Surgeon General does not understand basic research methodology or he is misleading the public.
Doomsday: why do you keep talking to yourself and saying the same things over and over again? Your 24 studies have been debunked over and over by very logical arguments-you just talk and don’t listen! Here’s the story:
“Over the next twelve years [post-Wakefield’s criminal “research”], the possibility of a link between MMR and autism was studied exhaustively. No reputable, relevant study confirmed Wakefield’s findings; instead, many well-designed studies have found no link between MMR and bowel disease or MMR and autism.”
That’s the end of the story.DOOMs,
I will not have the time today to follow your guidebce and use some google search.
You have not provided any studies that link autism with vaccines. I have provided more than one study that clearly show there is no link.
I dont think we play by the same rules, you are hyper focused on calling people names and accusing people of behaviors, hope it makes you fell good.
doomsday, the question is, did you read “24 published studies linking autism to vaccines.”
I so far read only the first article where it says that they are worried that vaccines might contribute to the increase in auto immune disease and the rise in autism coincides with the rise in vaccines and that rise should be investigated further.
However, if you continue reading the article it explains why we they do vaccines when they know that they are not 100% risk free. The article elaborates in detail the absolutely devastating effects of the illnesses that vaccines are meant to prevent. If we didn’t all vaccinate, you wouldn’t be safe not vaccinating.
The article then discusses autism again where it basically says that they have no clue what causes autism
Doomsday; Read my lips!!! There are NO studies linking vaccines to autism! None! You can Google all you want but unless a study is valid – which NONE of your 24 are! – they are not studies! Nothing! Meaningless! Stop saying the same mantra over and over again! It’s beginning to sound like a Buddhist chant! and if you want some REAL data look at all the cases of measles that are now occurring in NY! 100% in frum neighborhoods! 100%! The biggest chillul Hashem in decades – all perpetrated by anti-vaxxers. Give up! Get out of our communities!
Doomsday,
Again, do you trust anyone but yourself?Vaccinator: Read my lips!!! There are NO studies linking vaccines to autism!
Folks, ProVaxxers are either Stupid or Deliberately Lying. I think it’s both.
Just Google “157 Research Papers Supportingthe Vaccine/Autism Link”.
What the ProVaxxers really means is that there is No Study Showing a Link between Autism and Vaccines
that the CDC will admit is valid. But I have already proven that CDC Lies.
There could be a Million Studies showing a Link between Autism and Vaccines and CDC will
say the Studies are all Wrong, and continue to deny that Vaccines can cause Autism!Yserbius: @2cents was absolutely correct when s/he said that there’s no study that shows a link [between autism and vaccines]
Yserbius, you lack reading comprehension. There are many many studies showing a link between autism and
vaccine. There are also CDC studies that state that those studies are incorrect, but that does not mean the studies do not exist – which is what 2cents implied. You will notice that 2cents does not deny that she lied, because she did.Doingmybest: You keep saying that vaccines cause autism to rise. So then why haven’t autism rates stopped rising 20 years ago?
Your question reveals that you are unaware that CDC is constantly increasing the number of vaccines and introducing new ones.
I990 31 doses
2010 68 doses
2016 74 doses
Some of the newer vaccines include varicella (1996), rotavirus (1998), HepA (2000)Pneumoccal (2001)So in the past 20 years CDC has both increased the number of doses and added new vaccines.
That is why the Autism rate keeps rising.Does that answer your question, Doingmybest?If you would Google the phrase I posted, you will see that the people who claim that there exist studies showing a link are incapable of understanding a scientific research paper. Not one of those 157 studies shows a link. @2cents did not lie, you are just merely lacking in scientific research paper comprehension (not a chisaron, most of us are).
How about this: Why don’t you contact the authors of those studies? There are hundreds of them. If you can get ten to state (even anonymously) the words “It would be safer if no one vaccinated ever” then I would agree you have a point.
Dooms: well, I guess if you continue to refuse to learn any science, as I’ve tried to encourage you to do multiple times – including giving you an assignment to look up some key terms that you don’t understand – then your only recourse is to call everybody else liars – including even the CDC, which is one of the most trusted credible scientific organizations in the world trusted by every physician in the country! Yes, I know that you’ll say you know better than every physician in the country because that’s what your anti-vaxxer cult indoctrinated you with; however, it’s not going to fly because, sorry to say this, the only ones who are going to listen to you are your anti-vaxxer cronies. But, you are actually doing a fantastic service for vaccines since everyone who reads your trash (except of course for the cult) has become even more convinced that vaccines are critical and that there is NO valid argument not to vaccinate so for that I thank you.
Yserbius: @2cents did not lie, [that there are no studies showing a link between autism and vaccines
Just because you or the cdc do not agree with the 157 research papers showing a
link between autism and vaccines, does not mean the research papers do not exist.
Are you really incapable of understanding the above statement???
You don’t agree with me. Does that mean I don’t exist?
Folks, how can you believe anything ProVaxxers say, if they are that dumb!?!Dooms: are you still spouting nonsense? The CDC is the only organization worth listening to with regard to the science of vaccines (and other things too). So those who say there are no studies (meaning of course no studies with any validity) are absolutely correct. You, Dooms, will of course not believe them because it is not consistent with your view of the world, but that’s the way it is – and any credible physician feels that way too. So, Dooms, you’re outnumbered (like 600,000 to 1) and no one will believe you. And the more you call the normal people (whom you have renamed “Provaxxers”) liars, dumb, etc., the more and more idiotic you sound.
@doomsday I am capable of understanding your statement but you’re incapable of understanding those papers. Read the article whose titled I posted twice. Just because a website claims that 157 research papers that show a link, does not mean there is a link. That website lied. Those 157 papers do not show a link. Fakhert. Many of those papers reinforce the idea that there is no link between immunization and autism. Like paper 41 of 157 for example. “Newborn screening for autism: in search of candidate biomarkers.” There’s literally nothing in the paper about vaccines, thimerisol, or anything else for that matter. The next paper “Altered urinary porphyrins and mercury exposure as biomarkers for autism severity in Egyptian children with autism spectrum disorder” deals with ethylmercury exposure. Ethylmercury isn’t found in any vaccine and never was. People may think it is because it bears a similar name to methylethylmercury, AKA thimerisol, but it’s a completely different compound.
Who lied now? Are there truly 157 papers that show a link or are there 157 random scientific studies that some science am-ha’aretz decided to throw out there claiming them to show a link?
Thruth,
Is it your opinion that the amount of emulsifiers in vaccines are considered ‘regular diet’?
Your implying that the amount contained in vaccines us dangerous, you link a study which does not imply the same.
So after all, its your personal opinion that the vaccines are unhealthy, is that not so?
Dooms,
This is not the first time you wrote that I admitted to lying, i have not lied and for sure never admitted to such.
Your a despicable person for labeling me as a lier.
In fact, the many name callings exposes who you are, you are a troubled individual that has some sort belief about a conspiracy, complete disregard for proven science and accepts junk sites and garbage science.
The Fact that the CDC refuses to do a RETROSPECTIVE study comparing vaxxed to unvaxxed is proof CDC knows vaccines cause autism (and many other diseases). There is no ethical issue in doing a Retrospective study.
CDC Lies that there never was a retrospective vaxxed vs unvaxxed but there have been several and they
show that unvaxxed children are much healthier with far less autism, allergies, asthma, ear infections and diabetes!
Health, the unvaxxed are willing to participate in a retrospective study, why is CDC refusing to do the study?Vaccinator: So those who say there are no studies (meaning of course no studies with any validity) are absolutely correct.
Sorry, you can’t invent new meanings for words, in order to justify your lies.
It is a LIE to say there are no studies linking autism and vaccines, just because the CDC rejects the validity
of the studies.
Folks, do you see how provaxxers try to justify their lies to cover up for the CDC?
They say there are NO studies showing a link between vaccines and autism when there are 157 studies
showing a link between autism and vaccines.
And when you prove they lied, they say – well since we say all those studies are no good, we are allowed to
say they don’t exist! Absolutely Shameless!Dooms: once again, your attempts to simply discredit the CDC because you can’t stand real science are a waste of time. Most of my post you ignored as you have done with nearly everyone’s posts, instead doing what you do so well-throwing temper tantrums, accusing everyone of lying, etc. And by the way, if you would have done the assignment I gave you to help you learn a little about science, you would understand why CDC wouldn’t do your retrospective study—because scientifically, retrospective studies don’t prove anything. (You can read up about that too-consider it another assignment). We already told you before, it’s avocados and green jelly beans that cause autism because they are much more closely correlated with autism than are vaccines. I’m trying once again to teach you about spurious correlation-except you don’t know what the term means and refuse to get educated. You’d rather throw your childish temper tantrums and call the whole rest of the world liars. You don’t really think anybody cares about what you say, do you? The people who are taking their time patiently responding are just trying to educate you, but apparently to no avail. Hopefully, some other of your cult members will come around given the excellent counter-posts and educational input people have been providing in response to your rants.
Vaccinator: you would understand why CDC wouldn’t do your retrospective study—because scientifically, retrospective studies don’t prove anything.
Another Lie! If retrospective studies are not scientific evidence, then why do scientists do retrospective studies???
The CDC conducts retrospective studies and uses them as evidence, so how can you claim retrospective studies are not scientifically valid???Give me a study comparing vaccinated vs. un-vaccinated children comparing, for starters rates of:
SIDS
Cancer
Autism
Epilepsy
Learning disabilities
Diabetes Type 1 and 2
Rates of death and disabilities from the illnesses preventable by vaccines.Add a few more conditions to this laundry list and I can almost guarantee that you will find a statistically significant correlation for at least one of them, purely by chance. If you don’t understand this then you have no idea how statistics work and have no right to an opinion on the topic. Search for “xkcd” and “green jelly beans”
Folks, if the CDC would conduct a study on unvaccinated children and it would show that 2% of
unvaccinated have autism (1:50), that would restore people’s trust in vaccines. So why won’t the CDC
do such a study? Congress has requested that CDC do this study, but CDC REFUSES!
Because CDC knows that such a study that autism is very rare among unvaccinated children! There have been several studies on unvaccinated children showing that unvaccinated children have far, far, far LOWER rates
of autism, ADHD, allergies, asthma, speech delay, dyslexia (learning disability), ear infections, diabetes.
THAT is why CDC refuses to a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study – and that is why you cannot trust the CDC!doomsday -“The Fact that the CDC refuses to do a RETROSPECTIVE study comparing vaxxed to unvaxxed is proof CDC knows vaccines cause autism (and many other diseases). There is no ethical issue in doing a Retrospective study.
CDC Lies that there never was a retrospective vaxxed vs unvaxxed but there have been several and they show that unvaxxed children are much healthier with far less autism, allergies, asthma, ear infections and diabetes!
Health, the unvaxxed are willing to participate in a retrospective study, why is CDC refusing to do the study?”You’re unbelievable – I actually believed your lies. I give you credit – you’re the most Manipulator here!
What money do have invested – in order to promote Anti-vaxxing?!?
The CDC never refused to do any Study!“CDC Lies that there never was a retrospective vaxxed vs unvaxxed but there have been several and they show that unvaxxed children are much healthier with far less autism, allergies, asthma, ear infections and diabetes!”
The first part is an Outright Lie!
The second part is true.
The 2 that I found was with 667 kids & the other was less than 200.
Probably the rest are similar numbers.
WE VAXXERS ARE RIGHT & HERE IS THE PROOF!From JAMA 2015:
“In the largest-ever study of its kind, researchers again found that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine did not increase risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD). This proved true even among children already considered at high risk for the disorder.
In all, the researchers analyzed the health records of 95,727 children, including more than 15,000 children unvaccinated at age 2 and more than 8,000 still unvaccinated at age 5. Nearly 2,000 of these children were considered at risk for autism because they were born into families that already had a child with the disorder.”Vaccinator: We already told you before, it’s avocados and green jelly beans that cause autism because they are much more closely correlated with autism than are vaccines.
I already answered you, but YOU refused to answer my questions! I will ask you AGAIN:
1. How many reports of people getting high fevers and seizures within eating avocados or green jelly beans?
2. How many reports of people saying they developed autism as a result of eating avocados or green jelly beans?
3. How many reports of people who say their child dropped dead within hours of eating avocados or green jelly beans?
4. Do avocados or green jelly beans contain known neurotoxins like mercury and aluminum? or Live Viruses?
5. Are there dozens of studies linking avocados or green jelly beans to autism?
Vaccinator, if you refuse to answer these questions, it proves you are a Fraud!Provaxxers, if correlation is meaningless, how come most scientists use correlation as proof that Man is
causing Global Warming? Scientists say that Global Warming correlates with increase in CO2 – and that correlation is Proof! And most scientists agree with this proof!
So how can the CDC or any other scientist say that the correlation between autism going from 1:10,000 in 1970s to 1:50 today – which correlates to CDC TRIPLING the Vaccine schedule – does not mean anything?
You can’t say correlation is Proof with Global Warming but correlations is Not Proof with Vaccines!
Scientists are paid by government or corporations and will say whatever the government / corporations
hiring them want them to say!2scents: There is no study that was able to link autism to vaccines, other than the now known fraudulent study by Andrew Wakefield.
Vaccinator: So those who say there are no studies (meaning of course no studies with any validity) are absolutely correct.
More proof that 2scents lied! 2scents claims that Andrew Wakefield’s is the ONLY invalid study study linking
autism to vaccines.
There are over 150 studies linking autism to vaccines – and even if you claim they are all invalid – it is still a Lie
to say that Andrew Wakefield is the ONLY invalid study linking autism to vaccines!Doomsday: I will listen to the government and corporations over you any day!! They take the time to do studies that make sense, not the junk you keep barfing up. As mentioned the CDC is one of the most credible scientific organizations in the world and I trust them implicitly. And if it’s any more meaningful to you, the World Health Organization has come out even more strongly about the need to vaccinate. THOSE are organizations we can ALL trust and we do-as do all legitimate health care professionals in the world. If THEY say
It that’s good enough for me and 99% of the world. We really don’t care about your fringe opinions. You lose!Health: From JAMA 2015:
“In the largest-ever study of its kind, researchers again found that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine did not increase risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD). This proved true even among children already considered at high risk for the disorder.
In all, the researchers analyzed the health records of 95,727 children, including more than 15,000 children unvaccinated at age 2 and more than 8,000 still unvaccinated at age 5. Nearly 2,000 of these children were considered at risk for autism because they were born into families that already had a child with the disorder.”
Health, did this study compare the autism rate between vaccinated and unvaccinated?Truthishidden: Formaldehyde is essential in human metabolism and is required for the synthesis of DNA and amino acids (the building blocks of protein). Therefore, all humans have detectable quantities of natural formaldehyde in their circulation (about 2.5 ug of formaldehyde per ml of blood). Assuming an average weight of a 2-month-old of 5 kg and an average blood volume of 85 ml per kg, the total quantity of formaldehyde found in an infant’s circulation would be about 1.1 mg, a value about 1,500 times more than the amount an infant would be exposed to in any individual vaccine.
“suggested positive associations between formaldehyde exposure and reproductive toxicity, mostly in males.”
Okay, that’s just plain dumb because chicken pox, and mumps both can cause sterility in post pubescent males.
Doomsday,
Correlation is never used as a proof in of itself. For example do you know what percentage of people who suddenly die turned on a light within hours of their death? I don’t know the exact number but I’m sure it’s way up there. The rise of Autism rates also correlates with any number of arbitrary things. That doesn’t mean those things cause it.
Without getting into the details of exactly why you are wrong the fact that EVERY single major health organization in the world, and every reputable medical organization endorses vaccines should tell you something.
Truth is hidden:
I’m trying to stay away from refuting specific points here because I simply don’t have the time to go point by point with people who are ideologically opposed to the facts, but I can’t hold myself back here. The human body naturally produces an amount of formaldehyde that is many times larger then the trace amounts of formaldehyde found in vaccines. The trace amount that comes along with vaccines is completely safe and is processed by the body along with the naturally produced formaldehyde that is already there.
I bet the antivax website you read the formaldehyde argument on didn’t mention that though.
re: formaldehyde – unfortunately, injecting chemicals causes different reactions than ingesting or inhaling them, or even naturally found compounds.
Studies have shown that injecting formaldehyde (such as in a vaccine) is far more toxic than ingesting it. So, there IS cause for concern there.doomsday -“Health, did this study compare the autism rate between vaccinated and unvaccinated?”
I understand that you don’t have reading comprehension, but this is in Plain English:
“In the largest-ever study of its kind, researchers again found that the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine did not increase risk for autism spectrum disorder (ASD). In all, the researchers analyzed the health records of 95,727 children, including more than 15,000 children unvaccinated at age 2 and more than 8,000 still unvaccinated at age 5. Nearly 2,000 of these children were considered at risk for autism because they were born into families that already had a child with the disorder.”
So you see – Autism is NOT caused by the MMR Vaxx!!!
Vaccinator -“So, Dooms, you’re outnumbered (like 600,000 to 1) and no one will believe you.”
Unfortunately, there are many that believe this Avodah Zora.
They say the vaxx rate is around 85%, when it should be around 95-99%.Vaccines have formaldehyde???? Oh my goodness, are they trying to kill us?! While I’m at it, I think I’d better stay off of apples, bananas, grapes, plums, onions, carrots, beef, poultry and I think pears, because all of those also contain formaldehyde.
Truthishidden: unfortunately, much like doomsday, you don’t know any science and just keep passing along the fake science promulgated by anti-vaxxers. Here’s the REAL story about monkey kidney cells:
You do find monkey kidney cells on the ingredients list of some vaccines, notably the inactivated polio vaccine (Vero cell line), but that certainly isn’t the same as monkey kidney tissue.
The virus or bacteria in a vaccine has to be grown in something. That something is typically a cell culture – cells growing in a culture dish.
The virus or bacteria that you grow – the antigen – is then released from these cells and purified. The original cells from the cell culture aren’t in the final vaccine that a child is given.
So while monkey kidney cells might be on the ingredients list of a vaccine because they were used to make the vaccine, they aren’t actually in the final vaccine product.
Again, false science from the anti-vaxxers.Health, Did the study you cited compare vaccinated children to unvaccinated children?
Please just answer YES or NO. Thank you.Dooms, the answer is yes.
I still have not heard an explanation on why CDC refuses to do a RETROSPECTIVE study comparing
vaccinated children to unvaccinated children. Congress requested that the CDC do this study, but
CDC adamantly refuses. Why is the CDC afraid to do this study?shragi schiff: Their effectiveness is highly doubtful given that the first vaccine was invented in 1796 and measles wasn’t declared eradicated in the US until over 200 years later!
Another fool heard from. The measles vaccine was not invented in 1796, you fool. It was first introduced in 1963, the second dose was introduced in 1990, and by 1997 measles was effectively eradicated from the US. That’s not 200 years.
Benignuman Lied! that unreported adverse events are for Minor things like a Rash. But the above quote says that even SERIOUS adverse events are only reported 1-13%.
No, it doesn’t. As many people have pointed out, that statement is about drugs, not vaccines.
Vaccinator: “So, Dooms, you’re outnumbered (like 600,000 to 1) and no one will believe you.”
There are 150 doctors and scientists who PUBLICLY question the safety of vaccines. There are many
more doctors and scientists who question vaccines but they are afraid to say it publicly because they
do not want to have their medical license taken away. Any Doctor who refuses to vaccinate will lose his/her
license, so you are not getting the Doctor’s opinion on whether to vaccinate, doctors are just “following orders” Any Doctor who even questions the safety of vaccines risks their license. Same for scientists.
There is an organization called PhysiciansforInformedConsent who oppose Mandatory Vaccines.
WebMed reports that Younger Doctors are More skeptical of safety of Vaccines then older doctors.
13% of Pediatricians reject the CDC vaccine schedule for their own children!
Also, AntiVaxxers are mainly White, College Educated, High Income Families. Why do you suppose
the Most Educated and Successful Parents are more likely to be opposed to vaccines?
These College Educated parents spent many hours doing research before making their decision.But Dept. of Health says that Fewer then 1% of Vaccine Adverse Events Are Reported!
That is not true. The Dept of Health has never said such a thing. Doomsday is citing an unsupported statement from one report written by two authors, not an official statement or position adopted by the DOH. If it’s meant as a general statement about the level of reporting in the US, then it’s not clear where these two authors got this information.
Alternatively, they may simply be referring to their own study of 1.4M vaccine doses, of 45 vaccines, given to 376K individuals, over the course of 41 months. They report that they identified 35K possible reactions, so perhaps they simply mean that only 350 of these were reported to VAERS.
Note very well that they are not referring to events that were verified to have been caused by the vaccines. They’re simply adverse events that happened subsequent to vaccines. That’s all VAERS is; every report in there is simply something that happened after a vaccine, and therefore may or may not have been caused by it. But by studying the practices of one chain of clinics these two may have found (it’s not clear) that in practice doctors tend to report only those events they seriously think might be related to the vaccines.
At any rate this is certainly not any sort of basis for supposing deaths subsequent to vaccines were not reported by doctors at these clinics, or aren’t reported by doctors generally. And the fact that an event, including death, is reported is not evidence that it was caused by a vaccine.
Eli Y: Oh really? Would not a scientist have to compare this number with how many died from the vaccine?
That would be zero.
Either the US Surgeon General does not understand basic research methodology or he is misleading the public.
Or, far more likely, you do not understand basic research methodology.
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