Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

@doomsday Myself and several other people have posted numerous refutations to the allegation that there are research papers “proving” the link between vaccination and autism. Futhermore, I did address your claim of fraudulent CDC studies.

Doomsday,

You wrote: “This is more proof that you Lie. I answered you that per the Department Of Health and Human Resourcesfewer then 1% of all vaccine adverse advents are reported. Therefore there are over 3 Million Vaccine Injuries per year and 1,680 Vaccine Deaths. Yet you still repeat the Lie that serious injury from vaccines is rare. Shame!”

I see I got no apology for the false accusation of lying. Instead I got a doubling down where I was accused of lying on the basis of your faulty logic that I had already explained.

I looked up the 2010 report you cited. It was talking about doctors reporting adverse events, however minor, on the VAERS (vaccine adverse event reporting system) and was urging doctors to use to properly report adverse events. That report is not talking about injury or death claims against the vaccine compensation board. And it never claims that only 1% of serious injury or death cases are reported by doctors. Your extrapolation is completely unwarranted.

If there is dishonesty in this conversation it isn’t coming from me.

Doomsday, you wrote:
“1.When children are injured or killed after vaccination, the doctors lie and say that it was a “coincidence”
2. Most parents never heard of Vaccine Court.
3. There statute of limitations is much shorter then in real court so by that even if parents learn about
vaccine court it is too late and Vaccine Court refuses to hear their claim.
4. Parents have to pay thousands out of pocket and it can take up to 10 years for their case to finished.
This is too time consuming, stressful and expensive for many parents.”

First you have made these assertions without evidence. You don’t know these things you are just asserting them to explain away the contrary evidence to your position.

Second, when a child dies, lawyers are contacted and lawyers certainly know about the vaccine compensation program. Most lawyers take cases like these on contingency so the parents don’t have to pay anything more than the filing out of pocket. Typically vaccine compensation board cases, on average, are resolved in shorter time periods than conventional tort cases. The statute of limitations isn’t signficantly shorter than other torts but it is stricter in that the discovery rule does not apply.

It is certainly possible that some potential claims do not get brought but it is also the case that some claims brought (like in any litigation) are not legitimate. Claims against the vaccine compensation board are our best way to track severe vaccine injuries because it is interest of the claimants to find a link between the injury and the vaccine.

As for your argument about autism frequency, I already explained why that correlation is fallacious. Similar arguments hold for ADHD and learning disabilities.

Meno: 1% of adverse effects are reported, -168 Deaths are reported, -That means in reality there are 16,800 deaths?
That’s extremely faulty logic. It would be reasonable to assume that a much higher percentage of severe adverse effects are reported than mild adverse effects.
So now that I’ve caught you repeatedly pushing a faulty argument it must be that YOU ARE A LIAR!!!
THAT MEANS EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVER SAID MUST BE A LIE!!!

If the Department of Health and Human Resources says that fewer then 1% of adverse events, then it is correct logic to say that 168 reported deaths = 16,800 actual deaths.
You say that a serious event like a death is more likely to be reported. However there are numerous accounts of parents whose child died and the doctors insist that the death was not caused by vaccines but was
a “coincidence”. These doctors are not reporting these deaths to VAERS because they deny it could have
been a reaction to the vaccine. Therefore, only a fraction of deaths following vaccines are reported.

Yserbius: I did address your claim of fraudulent CDC studies.
No, you did not. You did not refer to the correct study. It is the Danish Thimerosal-Autism Study published in Pediatric.
Also, you still did not answer me: What was the question that I asked you to answer – three times???
If you do not tell me the Question I asked you, it is proof that you lied!

Doomsday,
You keep saying that vaccines cause autism to rise. So then why haven’t autism rates stopped rising 20 years ago?\

And the study I brought:
FROM Johns Hopkins analysis
“While many different combinations of genetic traits can cause autism, brains affected by autism share a pattern of ramped-up immune responses and related inflammation, an analysis of data from autopsied human brains reveals.

The study, a collaborative effort between Johns Hopkins and the University of Alabama at Birmingham, included data from 72 autism and control brains. It was published online last week in the journal Nature Communications.

“There are many different ways of getting autism, but we found that they all have the same downstream EFFECT,” says Dan Arking, an associate professor in the McKusick-Nathans Institute for Genetic Medicine at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. “What we don’t know is whether this immune response is making things better in the short term and worse in the long term.””

If you read carefully, as seen in this sentence “brains affected by autism share a pattern of ramped-up immune responses and related inflammation.” this study by an extremely respected orginization says that autism causes brain swelling and not the other way around as Doomsday tried to claim.
This was a clear lie on Doomsdays part.

I am PRO Polio and Measels! You vaxxers never stopped to analyze the benefits of not vaxing. It eliminates the stupid and dumb people from propagating their dumb genetics to the future generations. This is a golden opportunity to ensure our future generations will be smart, intelligent, and talmia chachomim.

Benign: I looked up the 2010 report you cited. It was talking about doctors reporting adverse events, however minor, on the VAERS (vaccine adverse event reporting system) and was urging doctors to use to properly report adverse events. That report is not talking about injury or death claims against the vaccine compensation board. And it never claims that only 1% of serious injury or death cases are reported by doctors. Your extrapolation is completely unwarranted. If there is dishonesty in this conversation it isn’t coming from me.

If there is dishonesty it is coming from you! I read through the report twice. Please tell me the page number where it urged doctors to report adverse events however minor! I never said the report was about injury or death claims, so why are you implying that I did? And the report explicitly says that even serious events ,which means death or permanent injury, are only reported 1-13% so you are a Big Liar!!!
Here is the direct quote from the report, Page 6:
Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.
So Benignuman, are you going to admit that you Lied???

Health: regarding why CDC won’t do a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed study:
“All they have to do is get the Anti-vaxxers to volunteer to be part of the study. It’s unethical to force people who want the vax to be part of the study. ”
We don’t need any vaxxed people to be part of the study. We already know that the autism rate in the
general population is 1:59. So all we need to do is study what is the Autism Rate among the Unvaxxed.
So your answer is nonsense! The reason the CDC refuses to do a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed study is because
the CDC knows it will prove that Vaccines cause Autism and many other diseases!

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.”
This is the statement of the Editor of the Most Respected Medical Journal in the Country! This proves that there isan epidemic of fraudulent medical studies!
It is very easy to create a study that gets the results the person who is paying for the study wants. Of course all the studies paid for by the CDC say Vaccines don’t cause Autism. But there are 150 studies not paid for by CDC that do show a link between Vaccines and Autism!
In the history of the world, there was Never a study that reached a conclusion that harmed the company paying for the study! Scientists are not Holy Men. They can be just as corrupt as the government or corporation that hires them!
I have posted the Fraud committed by the CDC Danish Study and no ProVaxxer has been able to refute that CDC committed Fraud to deny the link between Autism and Vaccines!

2Scents: Yes, I know for a Fact that doctors are rarely reporting deaths from Vaccines to VAERS because
the Depart of Health and Human Services said so in their report:
“Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.”

Meno: 1% of adverse effects are reported, -168 Deaths are reported, -That means in reality there are 16,800 deaths? That’s extremely faulty logic. It would be reasonable to assume that a much higher percentage of severe adverse effects are reported than mild adverse effects.
Here is the quote from the Department of Health and Human Resources:
Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported.
Per the Department of Health, even SERIOUS events (including death) are only reported 1-13% of the time!
So, are you going to admit you were wrong, Meno?

Truthishidden: ITo Doing my best:
Please explain how they came to the conclusion that autism causes brain swelling and not the other way around?
As I see it people with autism have brain swelling, how can they tell which came first?
Children with autism develop encephalitis (Brain Swelling) AFTER vaccination and the Brain Swelling causes
Autism. Doing My Best doesn’t have Reading Comprehension. S/he misinterpreted this sentence:
“brains affected by autism share a pattern of ramped-up immune responses and related inflammation.”
to mean that Autism Causes Brain Inflamation, when it is the other way around!
All that sentence means is that People with Autism have Brain Inflammation.

In case no one realized, dooms makes a statement, because dooms stated so, it becomes fact. Which is the bases of the argument.

Accuses everyone of lying, but dismisses any response that actually explains why not only is it not a lie, but a complete miss understanding (probably deliberately) of what is actually the truth.

doomsday,
So, are you going to admit you were wrong, Meno?

Seriously? Your quote mentions nothing about death (you added that yourself), nor does it mention anything about serious vaccine adverse events.

So you’re just lying again.

(I just want to make it clear, I don’t actually think you’re lying. I think you just have a problem with understanding scientific studies, and perhaps a problem with reading comprehension as well. My “lying” comments are just to point out how absurd it is that you are accusing everyone else of lying. There are decent people in this world. Not everyone is out to get you.)

Doomsday,
You seem intent on finding “lies” among those that disagree with you, so much so that you seem to simultaneously read some things very narrowly and other things very broadly. So I am going to be as clear as possible and will make my points in numbered list that you can respond to.
1. I said that the purpose of the report was to urge doctors to properly report adverse events on VAERS. Here is the language from the report: “The goal of this project is to improve the quality of vaccination programs by improving the quality of physician adverse vaccine event detection and reporting to the national Vaccine
Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).”
2. That this included all events, even minor ones, is demonstrated throughout the report in descriptions of their protocol and by the method that they used to detect adverse events. “We initially
prepared a draft document describing the elements, algorithms, interval of interest after
vaccination, and actions for broad classes of post-vaccination events, including those to be
reported immediately without delay (such as acute anaphylactic reaction following vaccination),
those never to be reported (such as routine check-ups following vaccination) and those to be
reported at the discretion and with additional information from the attending physician through a
feedback mechanism.” And “Every patient receiving a vaccine was automatically identified, and for the next 30 days, their health care diagnostic codes, laboratory tests, and medication prescriptions are evaluated for values suggestive of an adverse vaccine event. When a possible adverse event was detected, it was
recorded, and the appropriate clinician was to be notified electronically.” So this report was to include every post-vaccine medical event requiring a doctors visit (other than routine check-up), laboratory test, or prescription.
3. The sentence you highlight that says “1-13% of serious events are reported to the FDA” is referring to adverse events caused by drugs, not vaccines. It is the next sentence, which does not say “serious events” that is referring to vaccines.
4. Most importantly, this entire report and the percentages therein, are discussing the self-reporting of doctors of adverse events. The doctors have no personal incentive to report an adverse event. This report says NOTHING about claims brought by patients and their families! (or any other method of evaluating vaccine side effects) You are mixing apples and oranges.
5. The fact remains that a tiny percentage of vaccine patients or their families ever even bring claims for vaccine injuries despite the strong financial and emotional incentive to do so. Your attempt to conflate poor physician reporting with patient claims is without basis in the report you keep on citing.
6. Therefore, we are left with the fact that vaccine injuries serious enough for patients or their families to bring claims are very, very rare. Much rarer than injury caused by the disease that the vaccines prevent.

Doomsday, I don’t think you are deliberately lying or even being deliberately misleading. I think you have convinced yourself of the righteousness of your position. Unfortunately, in your mind that means that everyone that disagrees with you must be a lier or a bad person. We aren’t liers, we aren’t bad people. We are simply following the mainstream medical opinion and, at least in my case, looking at the claims data and coming to basic conclusions on the likelihood of serious or permanent injury from the vaccine vs. from the disease.

Doomsday,
do you trust anyone other than yourself?
If not, we live in different worlds.

Doomsday,
I assume you know that all drugs are based on a bell curve with the acceptance of one in a million risk
I assume you know that environmental releases in your air, water, soil, food etc are based on the acceptance of one in a million cancer risk over seventy years.
do you trust or do you only follow yourself?

Doomsday -“We don’t need any vaxxed people to be part of the study. We already know that the autism rate in the general population is 1:59. So all we need to do is study what is the Autism Rate among the Unvaxxed.
So your answer is nonsense! The reason the CDC refuses to do a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed study is because
the CDC knows it will prove that Vaccines cause Autism and many other diseases!”

You obviously can’t follow Simple Logic!
The Autism rate in the general public would include vaxxed & unvaxxed.

So it’s No problem to do a vaxxed vs. unvaxxed study:
“All they have to do is get the Anti-vaxxers to volunteer to be part of the study. It’s unethical to force people who want the vax to be part of the study. ”

Nowhere in the toira are vaccines said to be muttar and it is completely illogical to believe that taking in a disease (along with mercury!) will protect you from it. Their effectiveness is highly doubtful given that the first vaccine was invented in 1796 and measles wasn’t declared eradicated in the US until over 200 years later! We look at the doctors of old who used leaches as foolish and counterproductive and the ‘doctors’ of today will be seen the same. Yet so many people blindly inject themselves with substances whose contents they completely aren’t aware of. And the consequences are horrifying. More students than ever have problems now that children are being vaccinated with such alarming regularity. There are very clear statistics showing that the MMR vaccine has a 10% chance of causing autism.. People have such trust for their doctors but a diploma on the wall doesn’t make you less likely to be paid off by the big pharmaceutical companies. Further evidence of how little it means to be a doctor is how the great Andrew Wakefield who bravely informed the world of these dangers was soon after punished and taken off the UK medical register. Vaxers like to think that opposition to their cause is a new fad but from the beginning, cautious sceptics wisely distrusted the fraudulent ‘medicine’.  Vaxers have been hoping for a measles breakout like this to prove them right, wanting our children’s sickness just to prove a point. I think it is likely that as the sceptics grew in number it was necessary to start an infection to make us back down. They blow it out of proportion to seem like a massive epidemic and misinform the public.

I can’t believe I am even approving this post with these last lines…

@doomsday

Please stop yelling and please stop calling everyone liars. This is a frum message board, not some county fair in rural Arkansas.

More Proof that ProVaxxers on this thread Shamelessly Lie
Yserbius12: You asked me 3 times:

And I answered several times with an unequivocal NO.

Folks, google: 24 published studies linking autism to vaccines.
And yet 2SCENTS lies that there are NO studies linking autism to vaccines.
And Yserbius lied 4-5 times that 2scents did NOT lie when she said there are No studies linking autism
to vaccines.
These ProVaxxers are shameless!

Shragi,

There were many things wrong with your post but the mistakes at the beginning were so blatant I can’t help but address them.
“Nowhere in the toira are vaccines said to be muttar”
The Torah does not specify different kosher and unkosher medicines. It says v’raph y’rapeh, you must use doctors to heal someone (who you damaged). Chazal said that we follow the decisions of the best doctors or the majority of doctors. Therefore vaccination is required by the Torah.

“and it is completely illogical to believe that taking in a disease (along with mercury!) will protect you from it.”
You personally not understanding how viruses and immunity work does not mean that nobody understands it. It isn’t a big secret.

“Their effectiveness is highly doubtful given that the first vaccine was invented in 1796 and measles wasn’t declared eradicated in the US until over 200 years later!”
The MMR vaccine was developed in the early 1970s.