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Real PhD scientists always have a grim, pinched look on their faces. You know why? It’s because they’re holding themselves back from punching Doomsday in the nose.
Doomsday: “c. WHY do you say CDC should NOT do the study?”
Health: I answered this a few times – IT’s Unethical!
I must have said a dozen times a RETROSPECTIVE study – nothing unethical there.
I must have said a dozen times a RETROSPECTIVE study – nothing unethical there.
Then it won’t be randomized
Who do you want them to do a study for, you? You won’t be satisfied no matter what the results are.
Themselves? They have dozens of studies which according to science are reliable.
“I must have said a dozen times a RETROSPECTIVE study”
A retrospective fully vaxxed vs unvaxxed study would suffer from healthy user bias, Certainly more than the MMR study which you hate so much
Though worse noting healthy user bias, like any bias doesn’t automatically invalidate a study its just points out the inconsistency of your position
Dooms -“I must have said a dozen times a RETROSPECTIVE study – nothing unethical there.”
I’m still not getting through to you – HALF Doesn’t have to be Retrospective. Take your Unvaxxed friends for that part of the Study. Then we can compare Unvaxxed – Vaxxed.
This will be more accurate than a Full Retrospective Study!
(Or you can convince some of the people who are Anti-vaxxing, just to Vaxx for the Study. This will be for the Greater Good of Mankind!)NEWS! Dr. Andrew Zimmerman, a Pro-Vax Doctor who was Expert Witness FOR Vaccines in Vaccine Court, told DOJ Lawyers in 2007, that he believed vaccines COULD cause autism in some children. DOJ Lawyers FIRED Dr. Zimmerman as witness, then LIED in Vaccine Court that Dr. Zimmerman says that there is NO connection between vaccines and autism.
Dr. Zimmerman swore an affidavit to the above. Google Dr. Andrew Zimmerman vaccines autism to read the story by investigative reporter Sharyl Atkinson.
Is Dr. Zimmerman currently pro-vax or anti-vax?
How is this still going on? I thought the CDC sent a fruit basket?
A. This is not ‘news’, and in the news as well.
B. Dr. Zimmeran actually released a statement this week to clarify what is being said in his name.
C. He was never ‘fired’, only was not called upon as a witness.
D. He clearly claims that vaccines have no role in autism.
E. Clearly claims that regressive autism has a clear explanation and its not vaccines.
F. His only claim is, that children with mitochondrial dysfunction may regress when they stress their mitochondrial reserves, such as an infection or even something as minor as the immune response to a vaccine.
G. This is not a new opinion of his, and despite this opinion he was willing to testify that vaccines do not cause autism, his opinion has not changed.“As a pediatric neurologist and member of the American Medical Association, the
American Academy of Pediatrics, the Child Neurology Society, the American Academy
of Neurology and the American Neurological Association, I strongly support the
importance of vaccines for all children.”2Scents: <i>F. His only claim is, that children with mitochondrial dysfunction may regress when they stress their mitochondrial reserves, such as an infection or even something as minor as the immune response to a vaccine.</i>
By saying Vaccines COULD cause autism is some children, Dr. Zimmerman is contradicting the
LIES /PROPAGANDA of CDC which denies ANY connection between Vaccines and Autism.Excerpts from Dr. Zimmerman’s sworn affidavit testimony: [emphasis added]
6. On Friday June 15, 2007….I spoke with DOJ Attorneys in order to clarify my written expert opinion.
7. I clarified that my written expert opinion regarding Michelle Cidello was a case SPECIFIC to Michelle
Cidello. My written expert opinion regarding Michelle Cidello was NOT INTENDED TO BE A BLANKET STATEMENT AS TO ALL CHILDREN AND ALL MEDICAL SCIENCE.8. I explained that I was of the opinion that there were exceptions in which
VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM.10. I explained my opinion on the exception on which VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM was based on advances in Science, Medicine and Clinical Research…
11. …I specifically referenced and discussed with…DOJ Attorneys…the Medical Paper:
Developmental Regression and Mitochondrial Dysfunction in a Child with Autism which was PUBLISHED in the Journal of Child Neurology, co-authored by Jon Polling, MD, PhD, Rchard Frye MD PhD, John Schoffner MD, and Andrew Zimmerman, MD. A copy attached as Exhibit C.12. Shortly after I clarified my opinions with DOJ Attorneys, I was contacted by one of the junior DOJ attorneys and informed that I would no longer be needed as an expert witness on behalf of HHS…
13. ..I was scheduled to testify for HHS on Monday, June 18, 2007.
17. I have reviewed extensive genetic, metabolic and other medical records of William YATES HAZLEHURST. In my opinion and to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, YATES HAZLEHURST, suffered regressive encephalopathy with features of AUTISM spectrum disorder as a RESULT OF VACCINE INJURY in the same manner as described in the DOJ concession of Poling vs HHS.
18. [In the closing arguments of Hazlehurst vs HHS, DOJ Attorney stated in the transcripts:]
<i> Dr. Zimmerman has not actually appeared here, but he has given evidence on this issue, and it appeared in the Cidillo case….[Dr. Zimmerman’s] name was mentioned several times by the Petitioner’s [Hazlehurst] in this case….I am going to quote from Exhibit FF in the Cidillo Case:
“There is no scientific basis…MMR Vaccine or Mercury Intoxication and Autism…
We know his [Dr. Zimmerman’s] views on this issue.”19. The opinion of [DOJ ATTORNEY] during his closing argument regarding MY expert opinion
was HIGHLY MISLEADING and NOT ACCURATE reflection of my opinion…20. ..it was HIGHLY MISLEADING of DOJ to continue to use my written expert opinion regarding
Michelle Cidello as evidence against the remaining petitioners…in light of the above referenced information in which I explained I explained to the DOJ attorneys while OMITTING the caveat regarding exceptions in which VACCINATIONS COULD CAUSE AUTISM.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *To summarize:
1. Dr. Zimmerman WAS scheduled to be a witness for Vaccinations /DOJ in Vaccine Court and
was FIRED by DOJ when he stated that in certain cases, VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM.2. Dr. Zimmerman also told DOJ attorneys that his opinion in Michelle Cidillo’s case where he testified
that MMR did not cause Cidillo’s Autism was SPECIFIC to that case and NOT a blanket statement
that Vaccines NEVER cause Autism!3. DOJ Attorneys deliberately LIED in Vaccine Court and MISREPRESENTED Dr. Zimmerman’s
opinion in the Cidillo case to mean Dr. Zimmerman stated that Vaccines NEVER Cause Autism
when Dr. Zimmerman SPECIFICALLY TOLD DOJ THIS IS NOT TRUE!4. Dr. Zimmerman’s MISREPRESENTED opinion was used to deny compensation to YATES HAZLEHURST. Dr. Zimmerman writes that in his opinion, Vaccines DID Cause Hazlehurst’s Autism!!!
<i>5. What more proof do you need that US GOVERNMENT – DOJ – LIES to cover up that
VACCINES CAN CAUSE AUTISM???</i>Doomsday,
I feel sorry for you and your lack of understanding.Maybe you will view this differently after learning 10,000 blatt Gemera and a B.S. in Science or Engineering.
Dooms,
No need to learn a pshat in the events and no need to caps, Dr. ZImmeran is still around and can speak for himself.
He clearly states that his opinion has not changed, nothing ‘came out’, he clearly is an advocate for vaccines and does not believe that vaccine causes autism.
He does believe that children with mitochondrial dysfunction are at risk to regress when their immune system is under distress, such as infection or even a minor immune response such as associated with vaccines.
2cents: “He clearly states that his opinion has not changed, nothing ‘came out’, he clearly is an advocate for vaccines and does not believe that vaccine causes autism. ”
Folks, see how Pro Vaxxers Lie?
Dr. Zimmerman did say that Vaccines COULD Cause Autism. Here is a QUOTE from
Dr. Zimmerman’s Sworn Testimony (Affidavit):“8. I explained that I was of the opinion that there were exceptions in which
VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM.10. I explained my opinion on the exception on which VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM was based on advances in Science, Medicine and Clinical Research…”
Furthermore, Dr. Zimmerman REVEALS how DOJ Attorneys LIED in Vaccine Court to deny
that Yates Hazlehurst’s autism was caused by vaccines!1. Dr. Zimmerman revealed that when he told DOJ attorneys that he believes Vaccines CAN cause Autism he was FIRED as expert witness – but DOJ attorneys LIED and stated in closing arguments
that Dr. Zimmerman believes Vaccines NEVER cause Autism.2. The LIE by DOJ attoney’s was used to deny compensation for Yates Hazlehurst’s autism.
Dr. Zimmerman writes that in HIS opinion, VACCINES DID CAUSE Yates Hazlehurst’s autism, yet
DOJ LIED that Dr. Zimmerman believes that vaccines NEVER cause autism!Folks, See how 2Cents LIES! 2Cents knows that this is proof of DOJ Government FRAUD and
lying that an Expert Witness said Vaccines NEVER cause autism when the Expert Witness told
DOJ Attorneys the exact opposite: VACCINES CAN CAUSE AUTISM!!!Folks, See how 2Cents LIES!
No, I see how you lie.
Doomsday: Folks, See how 2Cents LIES!
Dass Yochid No, I see how you lie.
NOPE! You ProVaxxers LIE. How can I be lying when I am QUOTING Dr. Zimmerman’s
OWN WORDS in his sworn affidavit: See QUOTES below:“VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM”
“The opinion of [DOJ ATTORNEY] during his closing argument regarding MY expert opinion
was HIGHLY MISLEADING and NOT ACCURATE reflection of my opinion…in light of the above referenced information in which I explained I explained to the DOJ attorneys while OMITTING the caveat regarding exceptions in which VACCINATIONS COULD CAUSE AUTISM.”How can I be lying when I am QUOTING Dr. Zimmerman’s
OWN WORDSBecause you omit the part where he says it’s not specifically vaccines, and in fact the diseases people get when they don’t get vaccinated are more likely to be a cause.
Please answer my question: is Dr. Zimmerman for or against vaccines?
some common sense
“I feel sorry for you and your lack of understanding.”you shouldn’t. At this point it is clearly deliberate
You ProVaxxers are the ones who can’t understand that Dr. Zimmerman stated:
VACCINES COULD CAUSE AUTISM!The Vaccines must have made you ProVaxxers autistic.
Why won’t you answer a simple question: is Dr. Zimmerman for or against vaccination?
Doomsday, which anti-autist hate groups are you currently a member of?
Doomsday, in reply #1653528, you state that “The Vaccinated Children were richer, had better educated parents, healthy food, clean water, more breastfeeding, not overcrowded”. You clearly believe that educated people are the ones to vaccinate their children, although you have also stated otherwise, which makes you a liar!
RebYid: “which anti-autistic hate groups are you currently a member of”
I am a special education therapist who works with children with autism.
Many parents state that vaccines caused their child’s autism.
My nephew is autistic and my sister says that vaccines caused his autism.My nephew had been quite sick and on antibiotics and as soon as he finished antibiotics
the doctor asked my sister if my nephew should be vaccinated. My sister did not know the
answer (13 years ago most were unaware of vaccine-autism risk) so the doctor gave my
nephew 7 vaccines at once. My sister thought my nephew was deaf, because he stopped
responding. He was diagnosed with autism 2 weeks after the 7 vaccinations after 2 rounds of
antibiotics.PROVAXXERS LOVE AUTISTICS – that is why they create so many with their poisonous vaccines!
No, RebYid, it makes YOU someone who does not know how to read.
I repeatedly stressed that in THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, children who are vaccinated have parents
who are better educated, richer, more food and clean water.In USA, most anti-vaxxers are COLLEGE EDUCATED and richer then the vaccinated.
Doomsday, I’m so sorry about your nephew and the children you work with, but your pain doesn’t excuse your ill-mannered behavior.
Also, the fact that the parents of these autistic children feel they need to blame it in someone instead of accepting it as a g’zeirah min hashomayim doesn’t make their claims true.
Doomsday, so I took your words out of context?
Doomsday, people like you who hate autistic people shouldn’t be allowed around autistic people.
Oh hey! This is still going on!
plops down in the dugout and grabs a bag of popcorn
DaasYochid, my opinion on vaccines is based on many FACTS:
1. There are THOUSANDS of parents who reported that their NORMAL children became autistic after vaccination. Many developed high fevers and seizures and then regressed into autism.
2. BEFORE CDC quadrupled the vaccine schedule, autism was 1:10,000 – today it is 1:50.
3. There are hundreds of studies by REAL PhD Scientists and Medical Doctors linking Vaccines to Autism – and many other diseases.
4. CDC refuses to do a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study.
5. CDC makes FRAUDULENT studies – and I SPECIFICALLY Pointed out the FRAUD, which was exposed by real PhD Scientists.
6. There IS a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study showing that unvaxxed children have far less autism, learning disabilities, allergies, asthma.
Daas Yochid: ” the parents of these autistic children feel they need to blame it in someone instead of accepting it as a g’zeirah min hashomayim doesn’t make their claims true. ”
Tobacco Industry also LIED that relatives of people who died from cancer wrongly blamed cigarettes.
And we now know that Tobacco Industry LIED and cigarettes DO Cause Cancer.
Just like Vaccines DO cause Autism (and many other diseases!That is why Vaccine Industry refuses to do Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study.
Because it was Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study that PROVED Cigarettes cause cancer!Your tobacco analogy has been shlugged up already. I don’t know why you’re rehashing it.
Also, can you please stop with the all caps? It’s quite annoying.
Another reason anti-vaxxers are despicable is because they deny the positive side effects of vaccines. I have a second cousin who has allergies due to delayed vaccination (vaccines prevent allergies by exercising the immune system), and allergies can be deadly.
dooms
“Many parents state that vaccines caused their child’s autism.”
ooooh I didnt know “many parents” stated that. that changes everything. who cares how many studies we have showing it isn’t true.
Many people say “step on a sidewalk crack break your mother’s back” yet I see sidewalk cracks everywhere!
And as the number of sidewalk cracks (and sidewalks) have increased more vertebral fractures have been diagnosedand unlike vaccines which have been shown in dozens and dozens of studies that they dont cause autism, there are NO studies showing sidewalk cracks don’t cause broken backs
The CDC wont’ do a sidewalk crack vs non-sidewalk crack study which only further proves what we already know based on people’s statements.doomsday -“the doctor gave my nephew 7 vaccines at once. He was diagnosed with autism 2 weeks after the 7 vaccinations”
That is a bit much. It’s possible that this situation triggered Autism.
So what you’re doing is denying the Benefit of Vaxxing.
You’re using one case (or a few cases) to Push your wicked agenda!
Stop denying the fact that Vaccines have saved Millions of Lives!Allergies are terrible. It’s literally your body attacking itself whenever it encounters a particular substance, one that is normally harmless. The evidence that vaccines have the side effect of preventing it is right there in the studies if you look hard enough, but some people are more interested in selling allergy meds than in making sure everyone is vaccinated.
Truth
Exactly!now you get it
People can be fickle and emotions often run high especially when faced with such a sad situation.
Ask anyone who has washed a car, they will all tell you that as soon as you wash a car a bird comes and makes a mess.
Try it , ask them.Now when you take a step back you realize that obviously this is nonsense, it just is more frustrating at that time, so you pay yattention.
Parents who have a child diagnosed with autism are frustrated, and I do get that, so they look for something to blame. Honestly, I would do the same.
Nonthless when you gather the data and remove the emotional investment it has been clearly demonstrated not to be so.If I got a nosebleed after falling of course I would blame the fall.
But if study was done showing that among thousands of people with falls and without the number of nosebleeds are the same. That would raise questions. And then another study and another and another ….. Then absolutely although it may seem otherwise if the studies were as rigorous as the once on vaccines, then we would have to conclude that the two were not related.They are the same.
Vaccines are the likely cause of the soaring allergy rate – 1:6 children allergic.
Before CDC QUADRUPLED the vaccine schedule, allergies were very rare.
Allergies are an Auto-Immune Disease and vaccines HYPER stimulate the immune system.I remember when schools served peanut butter and airlines gave out peanuts.
I remember where no child in schools needed epi-pens.
But then the CDC which takes Millions of $$$ in “gifts” from Vaccine Industry, QUADRUPLED the
vaccine schedule and we now have the SICKEST children in history.Sickest children in history? Do you know how many fatal childhood illnesses have been eradicated (or made curable) by modern medicine? Would you like to go back to a time when an ear infection or a cough could be fatal?
Ubiquiton: “ooooh I didnt know “many parents” stated that. that changes everything. who cares how many studies we have showing it isn’t true. ”
And there are HUNDREDS of studies that show that vaccines cause Autism and many other diseases.
When Millions of people blamed cigarettes for their Lung Cancer, Big Tobacco ridiculed them as well.
Vaccine Industry is just copying Tobacco Industry Playbook.
But Vaccine Industry is using the BILLIONS $$$ to Buy Congress to prevent a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study – because it was a Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study that EXPOSED the LIES of Tobacco Industry!doomsday -“QUADRUPLED the vaccine schedule and we now have the SICKEST children in history.”
Not because of people who Vax, but because of people like you – who don’t VAXX!!!
RebYid: “but some people are more interested in selling allergy meds than in making sure everyone is vaccinated.”
WHO makes money selling allergy meds? (and ADHD meds, asthma meds, diabetes meds, cancer meds)?
The Pharmaceutical Company that makes Vaccines and Bribes Government to FORCE people to take it
against their will.What is the ONLY Industry in the world that has the Government FORCE people to take their product,
is immune from liability for all the injuries and deaths from their product, and makes Billions selling MORE products (Meds) for the diseases they created???Which Industry gives the most Millions to Government, most Millions to News Media (tons of ads),
Funds most “medical research” (FAKED), gives Millions to Medical Journals?DaasYochid: “Sickest children in history? Do you know how many fatal childhood illnesses have been eradicated (or made curable) by modern medicine? Would you like to go back to a time when an ear infection or a cough could be fatal?”
90% DROP of fatalities from infectious disease BEFORE vaccines were invented!
We stopped taking Small pox Vaccine – and NOBODY is dying of smallpox!
In USA, per year:
Zero deaths from Small Pox
Zero death from Measles
Zero Death from Mumps
Zero death from Chicken Pox
Zero death from Polio
168 deaths reported after vaccination but could be 10 – 100 times more as only 1-13% of SERIOUS Adverse Events are reported.
SICKEST CHILDREN in History of USA:
1:6 children are Learning Disabled
1:6 children are Allergic (can be Fatal!)
1:7 couples are INFERTILE (Vaccine inserts say they don’t safety test for infertility)
1:13 children have Asthma
1:15 children have ADHD
1:5 teens had episode of Mental illness
1:8 children have IBS
1:50 children have Autism (listed as Adverse Event on Vaccine Inserts)
1:100 children have Epilepsy (seizures listed as Adverse Event on Vaccine Inserts)
1:250 children have Tourettes Syndrome
1:400 children have Diabetes
1:775 babies DIE of SIDS (listed as Adverse Event on Vaccine Inserts)
1:1,000 children have Celiac Disease
1:5,560 children have CANCER (Vaccine Inserts say don’t safety test for Cancer)Vaccines are MORE dangerous then the diseases they are supposed to prevent!
dooms
“And there are HUNDREDS of studies that show that vaccines cause Autism …”Except that there aren’t, There were 11 that you provided. Most diditn discuss vaccines or autism (one discussed neither) and the few that did discuss both had major flaws.
“But Vaccine Industry is using the BILLIONS $$$ to Buy Congress to prevent a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study”
I’m not sure what this means. Are you saying congress passed a law outlawing vaxxed vs unvaxxed studies?
and why didn’t that plan work for tobacco did they not have money to buy congress to outlaw smoking studies?We stopped taking Small pox Vaccine – and NOBODY is dying of smallpox!
Yes, and that’s because the disease was eradicated. It’s only because it was eradicated that we stopped taking the vaccine. If the disease was still out there, we’d still be vaccinating for it.
But I’m sure you already knew that…
The Wolf
Wolf- “Yes, and that’s because the disease was eradicated. It’s only because it was eradicated that we stopped taking the vaccine. If the disease was still out there, we’d still be vaccinating for it.”
You forgot to mention why it was eradicated.
Vaccination was the main reason for the eradication.
From the CDC:
“Global Smallpox Eradication Program
The Intensified Eradication Program began in 1967 with a promise of renewed efforts. This time, laboratories in many countries where smallpox occurred regularly (endemic countries) were able to produce more, higher quality freeze-dried vaccine. A number of other factors also played an important role in the success of the intensified efforts, including the development of the bifurcated needle, establishment of a surveillance system to detect and investigate cases, and mass vaccination campaigns, to name a few.”“I am a special education therapist who works with children with autism.
Many parents state that vaccines caused their child’s autism.
My nephew is autistic and my sister says that vaccines caused his autism.”a. While it is nice that you have chosen a field of helping children that can use therapy, being a special ed therapists does not lend you the position of authority on this matter.
b. You do realize by now that what many people state have no bearing if it were true, it would have been measurable if is not measurable than it does not exist. In fact, so much effort is being put in by the radical anti-vaccine and anti-medicine movement, that if there were any data that would link vaccines with autism it would have been all over the news.
c. While that may be what your sister claims, it may not be the actual truth. Therefore before a policy is decided there needs to be more than just what your sister claims.
At this point, I respect your passion, however, it is very clear that you are not interested in any data unless it supports your already made up decision.
It would have been better if you would have stated at the beginning of this discussion, that your sister’s claim has convinced you that it is vaccines that have caused her child’s autism. No data would satisfy you, as that is not what you are seeking. Anything that goes against vaccines you would immediately disregard, we would have clearly understood the reason for this, without having to initially think that it is data or research that has driven you to a conclusion.Doomsday, you talk like Big Pharma is some big blob. There are different sections, and they disagree with each other. The vaccine companies want to sell vaccines, but the allergy med companies want people not to vaccinate!
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