Studies on vaccines you might have missed.👨‍🔬💉🚫

If “normal” and “typical” are not exact synonyms, they’re very close to it. Each is included in the other’s dictionary definition. I suppose “typical” is a little narrower than “normal”. For instance, one could say that although left-handedness in humans is atypical, it is within the normal range. But by any definition autism is abnormal.

doomsday -“How Tobacco Industry Hired Scientists and Doctors to Hide that Smoking Causes Cancer”

Now that we know Smoking causes cancer – did most people stop? Or did it stop a lot of people from Starting to smoke?

“it would work to erode, confuse, and condemn the very science that now threatened to destroy its prized, highly popular, and exclusive product.”

So you’re saying the Anti-vaxxers do the SAME THING!

Beis Hillel,

You said “Are you aware that the personal physician to Queen Elisabeth is a homeopath.”. Assuming this is true all it does is bolster my opinion that Queen Elizabeth is an idiot. Which isn’t surprising considering that she has spent her whole life playing “monarch” and the amount of inbreeding in royal families. Again the reason these remedies aren’t simply called “medicine” is because they have not been proven to work. Remedies that have been scientifically proven to work are called “Medicine”.

Doomsday,

All of your comparisons to the tobacco industry are missing the point that in spite of all their efforts it was never the consensus of the scientific community in the USA let alone the world that smoking was healthy. You positing that the entire scientific community and every major health agency on earth in every single country are engaged in a giant conspiracy. This requires a lot more proof then you are presenting in order to be credible.

Who developed “Factor Z” Autism = 68 children

From group B
+ 792 from Group A
= 860

00646: You said “Are you aware that the personal physician to Queen Elisabeth is a homeopath.”. Assuming this is true all it does is bolster my opinion that Queen Elizabeth is an idiot. Which isn’t surprising considering that she has spent her whole life playing “monarch” and the amount of inbreeding in royal families. Again the reason these remedies aren’t simply called “medicine” is because they have not been proven to work. Remedies that have been scientifically proven to work are called “Medicine”.

As opposed to your opinion about the mental health of Queen Elizabeth, I think this bolsters my opinion that she is highly intelligent especially as regards to the health of herself and her family. Maybe her longevity maybe attributed to the fact that she does not use the “Real Medicine” of Big Phama to poison herself.
Even though homeopathy is not focus of this thread, it’s obvious that those that disagree with the consensus of the “herd” is automatically labeled “idiot” “nut” cultist etc. etc. It’s my way or highway.
There is no real dialog or intelligent discussion here on the subject of vaccines, but who can come up with a better insult towards the opposing view.
Shame on you.

There is no real dialog or intelligent discussion here on the subject of vaccines, but who can come up with a better insult towards the opposing view.

You mean like calling all in favor of vaccines liars multiple times?

I must have missed where you said “Shame on you” to Doomsday for that.

@Health, I was waiting for an answer as to why you attacked what I said but maybe you never saw what I posted because it’s no longer here. So I’m reposting now:

@ Health: Another Anti-vaxxer Lie!
That’s Not why they switched DTP to TDaP.
From NVIC:
“DPT vaccine is a combination of three inactivated bacterial vaccines: diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus. There are many different forms and combinations of these vaccines licensed for use in the United States.”

Not sure why you are attacking what I wrote, the DPT was live virus and changed to acellular. The NVIC is explaining that these vaccines can come in different combinations and forms (Dtap, Tdap, a combo with polio and Hib, etc depending on the manufacturer.) I did not elaborate on why they did it, but here is the reason:

link removed
Due to the possible reactogenicity of the whole-cell pertussis component of the DTP vaccine, acellular pertussis (aP) vaccine was developed as a replacement in 1991 (DTP became DTaP). This new vaccine was administered to children in 1992 [7,8] and then phased into the infant immunization schedule beginning in 1997 [9,10], following approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and recommendations by the U.S. Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP).

There was a lot of noise about whether the DTP was causing reactions -there were some documentaries, news reports and a number of lawsuits which led to vaccine manufacturers threatening to stop supplying vaccines. So the government removed liability and created the vaccine court, etc. So the companies worked on developing an acellular vaccine, (I think Japan succeeded in producing one first, but I would have to look it up again) and once they had it, they phased it into the schedule. If you want to look up the whole megilla about it, here is a nice paper from the IOM:

link removed

Without going into this whole history lesson, my point was the acellular polio, and the acellular Dtap, have the chisaron of not preventing transmission, which can complicate things because we think we are doing our bit for society getting a vaccine before coming in contact with newborns, but if we are exposed to pertussis, instead of coughing, feeling lousy and knowing we should stay away, we think we’re fine and can potentially bring the virus to the most vulnerable. ( link removed Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model.)

2Cents: The study took 95 thousand children, of those that were diagnosed with autism, they found no correlation between being vaccinated and not being vaccinated, no correlation between at what age the vaccine was given.

Why do you continue to LIE that the “95 thousand children study” was between “vaccinated and not being vaccinated” when I already pointed out that the study compared VACCINATED Children + MMR with VACCINATED Children excluding MMR?

Poilkj: Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model.

ProVaxxers, you see Poilkj provided MORE EVIDENCE that VACCINATED can SPREAD DISEASE!

So why ban Unvaccinated Children from school, when VACCINATED children can ALSO spread Diseases???

DaasYochid,

Who developed “Factor Z” Autism = 68 children

“From group B
+ 792 from Group A
= 860”

You’re basically saying that this study proves nothing on either way…

That itself should sober you… as you all bashing dooms with this one way up above

I’m OK if you want to put this study in the junk pile instead of letting me have it.

DaasYochid,

“I’m saying you twisted the results by leaving out numbers.”

Here are all the numbers:

Group A – No Sibling ASD, Yes MMR (5 yrs)

86,063 children

792 Autistic (860 × .92)

1:108 Autism diagnosis ratio

—-
Group B – No Sibling ASD, No MMR (5 yrs)

7,735 children

68 Autistic (860 × .08)

1:113 Autism diagnosis ratio
—

Group B’s ratio was calculated unfairly.

Formula: Total kids at risk / total diagnosed cases.

Total kids at risk is the entire group, not just the No-MMR kids.

If things are calculated unfairly, what does it show?

doomsday -“The Autistic Children got OTHER Vaccines and the OTHER Vaccines are the probable cause of their Autism”

Your mistake is you don’t know how to read the research. Maybe finish high school and then come to post?
In that study they did compare vaxxed – vaxxed, but you keep writing they didn’t compare vaxxed – Nonvaxxed. Read it again & look at the notes, vaxxed to unvaxxed at all, is part of the study/article.

Formula for calculating the ratio is:

Total kids at risk ÷ total diagnosed.

Who exactly in this group is at risk to develop autism from the unidentified cause?

Just the no-MMR group, or everyone?

Last I checked, MMR protect for Measles, Mumps, and Rubella, not random Autism.

So the whole 95,000 kids are the total risk number for random Autism.

yet, the study acts as if only no-MMR kids are the total risk number for Random Autism.

Making sense?

Keej,

Making sense?

It’s really not, and the fact that you don’t see the flaw in your logic is truly mind boggling.

Health: “Your mistake is you don’t know how to read the research. Maybe finish high school and then come to post?…..In that study they did compare vaxxed – vaxxed, “

No, YOU do not know how to read research. In your defense, the research paper tries to DELIBERATELY mislead you that it is a vaxxed vs unvaxxed study. The Study clearly states that they are comparing children who GOT the MMR with Children who did NOT get the MMR! Nowhere does the paper say it is comparing children who are VACCINATED with children who are 100% UNVACCINATED. If that WAS what the paper is talking about, then why single out MMR Vaccine? Why not just say we did a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study?

The paper says it compared children who got MMR with children who did NOT get MMR. The paper does NOT say what OTHER vaccines the children got – even though the researchers KNOW that information, it was deliberately HIDDEN. The FRAUDULENT Paper refers to children who did not get MMR Vaccine as “UNVACCINATED” – even if those children got 23 OTHER Vaccines! This is a COMMON FRAUD that Government Officials and FRAUDULENT Researchers do! Here is another example of this FRAUD

“One hundred and eighty kids — this really hit me hard as the father of three kids — died last year from the flu. And the majority of them were unvaccinated,” said US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome M. Adams. speaking at a news conference hosted by the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases on Thursday. “Flu vaccinations save lives.”

Health, the US SURGEON GENERAL LIED that Majority of 180 kids who died of Flu were “UNVACCINATED” when ALL the children who died of the Flu WERE VACCINATED. Just Majority did not get ONE Vaccine – Flu – so they were falsely labeled UNVACCINATED Children. And that is what that FRAUDULENT Research study did as well!
So HEALTH, YOU SHOULD LEARN TO READ RESEARCH!!! There were many EXPERTS who wrote articles online debunking that study and they pointed out that the study FRAUDULENTLY called children who didn’t get MMR “Unvaccinated” even though they may have gotten 23 OTHER Vaccines!!!

dooms,

yes, this study seems to indicate that MMR increases the risk of autism from 1:1,367 to 1:108

Meno,

That is the exact deception within this study.

We need to honest compare the risk ratio of MMR autism vs. risk of regular Autism.

In other words, how many doors does the Regular Autism need to knock on , before it gets allowed inside?

Now count all the doors that were knocked on by Regular Autism.

Regular Autism knocked on all the doors of the entire group, so that’s the risk ratio. You can’t exclude doors just because they got a vaccine.

I can’t make a conclusion without knowing who was actually at risk to begin with.

How many are in group A?
How many in group A are Autistic?

We don’t know who’s at risk more than others.

So they compared those with an alleged risk factor with those who don’t have that alleged risk factor and the results indicated that the alleged risk factor didn’t make a significant difference.

Make sense?

If group B consisted of only 1000 children, and 10 were autistic, what would you conclude from that study?

That sock color causes autism

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I’d like to present a study that may interest the pro vaxxers.
The study published in the Lancet by Dr. Peter Aaby and other associates is titled:
The Introduction of Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Oral Polio Vaccine Among Young Infants in an Urban African Community: A Natural Experiment
The following is an abstract of this study:
•When DTP and OPV were introduced in Guinea-Bissau in 1981, allocation by birthday resulted in a natural experiment of being vaccinated early or late.
•Between 3 and 5 months of age, children who received DTP and OPV early had 5-fold higher mortality than still unvaccinated children.
•In the only two studies of the introduction of DTP and OPV, co-administration of OPV with DTP may have reduced the negative effects of DTP.

Few studies have examined what happened to child survival when DTP and OPV were introduced in low-income countries. These vaccines were introduced in 1981 in an urban community in Guinea-Bissau from 3 months of age in connection with 3-monthly weighing sessions. Children were therefore allocated by birthday to receive vaccines early or late between 3 and 5 months of age. In this natural experiment vaccinated children had 5-fold higher mortality than not-yet-DTP-vaccinated children. DTP-only vaccinations were associated with higher mortality than DTP + OPV vaccinations. Hence, DTP may be associated with a negative effect on child survival.
Abstract
Background

We examined the introduction of diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) and oral polio vaccine (OPV) in an urban community in Guinea-Bissau in the early 1980s.
Methods

The child population had been followed with 3-monthly nutritional weighing sessions since 1978. From June 1981 DTP and OPV were offered from 3 months of age at these sessions. Due to the 3-monthly intervals between sessions, the children were allocated by birthday in a ‘natural experiment’ to receive vaccinations early or late between 3 and 5 months of age. We included children who were <6 months of age when vaccinations started and children born until the end of December 1983. We compared mortality between 3 and 5 months of age of DTP-vaccinated and not-yet-DTP-vaccinated children in Cox proportional hazard models.
Results

Among 3–5-month-old children, having received DTP (±OPV) was associated with a mortality hazard ratio (HR) of 5.00 (95% CI 1.53–16.3) compared with not-yet-DTP-vaccinated children. Differences in background factors did not explain the effect. The negative effect was particularly strong for children who had received DTP-only and no OPV (HR = 10.0 (2.61–38.6)). All-cause infant mortality after 3 months of age increased after the introduction of these vaccines (HR = 2.12 (1.07–4.19)).
Conclusion

DTP was associated with increased mortality; OPV may modify the effect of DTP.
In plain English, Dr. Aaby conclusion was that vaccinated children had at least five times higher mortality rate than unvaccinated children.
As a service to the pro vaxxer posters, I’d like to anticipate some of your responses to this study, in order to save them from bittul zman.

1) Just because some nut decided to make a study unfavorable to vaccines, I don’t have to change my blind belief in the guidelines of the infallible CDC.
2) Dr. Aaby is an idiot and moron, whose ancestors are probably in bred Appalachian Mountain people.
3) His mother who is a anti vaxxer influenced his findings.
4) He probably took a geology course in college, which automatically disqualifies him from doing any medical research.
If I missed anything, you are more than welcome to add to the collection.

Health: That’s why I wrote this -“look at the notes, vaxxed to unvaxxed at all, is part of the study/article.”

Can you please tell me where I can see these notes? They were not included in the study on the
Jama Network. Thank you.

bais hillel,

5) Public health and herd immunity take precedence over the health ans well-being of your own children
6) My Doctor is a Tzaddik and sees thousands of patients per week. If there was any substance to being Anti-vaxx, then he would be. If he isn’t that’s unbreakable proof that it’s all one big bluff. i don’t care what you show me.

bais hillel-

Thanks for posting a study in favor of the measles vaccine.

In the study you cite one of the authors Peter Aaby clearly states THAT MEASLES VACCINE HAS RESULTED IN A LARGER THE EXPECTED REDUCTION IN CHILD MORTALITY according to two studies he has done.

“One trial of measles-vaccinated and measles-unvaccinated communities in Congo showed a larger than expected reduction in child mortality (Aaby et al., 1981); this observation was subsequently corroborated by community “trials” and before-after studies in several countries (Aaby et al., 1984, Aaby et al., 1993, Aaby et al., 2003a, Holt et al., 1990, Kapoor and Reddaiah, 1991).”