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Ubiq -“You keep repeatign false claims that are easy to debunk, and that you would be embarrassed to post if you did 30 seconds of research.”
You don’t understand how people are easily Manipulated. Doomsday is the primary example of this behavior.
Vaxopedia deals with the Lies, esp. the one about Johns Hopkins!
The only solution is to Find out who these Manipulators are and oust them from the Frum community.
We Now have an Epidemic in the Frum communities and these Manipulators are getting away with this. They are the cause of much less Vaxxing, nowadays.
It’s Mind-Boggling what is allowed to go on in the Frum communities!Millhouse: we use light bulbs because they work, not because we trust Edison.
Exactly! You don’t have to trust Dr. Scheibner, her invention “CotWatch” Works! CotWatch records the breathing of babies in their cribs. And there are Computerized Recordings showing that Babies Stopped Breathing (Apnea) right after getting DPT Shot! THAT is the proof that DPT causes SIDS – COTWATCH, not Dr. Scheibner. And parents have won Millions of Dollars from Vaccine Court for SIDS. Not that money will bring back their dead babies. And SIDS is listed as a known adverse effect on the vaccine inserts. As is Autism.
@ubiquitin, the oral vaccine may not be used now in the USA, but we had to use it in Israel when there was an outbreak a few years ago. The inactivated vaccine can protect the individual from getting sick, but it does not block transmission, which means if there is an outbreak, vaccinated people can spread the virus without knowing it. The oral vaccine does create gut or mucosal immunity, meaning the vaccinated individual, after the initial period when they will shed the virus in their stool, will no longer transmit the virus to others. But the OPV (oral polio vaccine) does carry a danger of spreading vaccine strain polio, which can be more serious than wild strain polio (which was the case in an outbreak last year in Syria). So we all had to go and get the oral dose in addition to the IPV (inactivated polio vaccine). For those who don’t remember this outbreak, this article does a great job explaining the 2 types of vaccines, the upsides and downsides. http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6159/679.full
Similarly, the DTP shot was a weakened live vaccine and had to be changed out, like the oral polio, for the inactivated Tdap. This creates the same problem, symptoms in the vaccinated individual are absent, but they can still transmit the virus to infants and other susceptible individuals.I’ve seen a lightbulb work.
I’ve never seen a cotwatch.
Dooms,
“I have a saved copy of the 2014 John Hopkins Patient Guide which DID state that the immunocompromised should avoid recently compromised. You can still see the 2014 Patient Guide online. Also the Vaccine Inserts
used to say that recently vaccinated can shed the virus for 6 weeks and should avoid the immunocompromised.”Your point?
The data shows otherwise, the advisories and patient guides have been updated to reflect what the data shows.
You, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge that data and facts are what matter, so you will keep copies of old outdated manuals and live by them.
Dooms,
“Wrong! Thimerosal was NOT removed. It was shuffled around. When it was EXPOSED that the amount of
mercury in vaccines exceeded EPA safety guidelines,”Would you mind pointing out which CHILDREN vaccine still contain Thimerosal?
Furthermore, now that it has been removed from all Children vaccines and is only used in SOME flu vaccines (multi-dose vials), has that affected the rate of autism?
I will repeat, unlike you stated, thimerosal has not been shifted around, no children vaccines still contain them, even the flu shots are available as single dose vials without Thimerosal.
So what you said is incorrect, others would call it a lie. (by the way, this has been discussed earlier yet you just fail to acknowledge it and keep on repeating this lie).
Where are you getting your (mis)information? is it from age of autism??
Dooms,
Other than a few Facebook posts and some silly radical anti-medicine sites, I have not seen any information about the CotWatch you so strongly hold by.
As requested earlier, it would be appreciated if you can point me in the direction of more information. So I do not have to take your word for it. (it has to be more than her word, or some blog or Facebook post),
Even modern apnea monitors are worthless, they beep nonstop and are grossly inaccurate, let alone the monitor that she alone designed a very long time ago.
2scents -“As requested earlier, it would be appreciated if you can point me in the direction of more information. So I do not have to take your word for it.”
I’ll give it to you, but be careful that you don’t fall into his Anti-vaxxer trap!
“COURT RULES VACCINES CONTRIBUTE TO AND CAUSE SIDS Deaths from Health Freedom Idaho.”
poilkj -“Similarly, the DTP shot was a weakened live vaccine and had to be changed out, like the oral polio, for the inactivated Tdap. This creates the same problem, symptoms in the vaccinated individual are absent, but they can still transmit the virus to infants and other susceptible individuals.”
Another Anti-vaxxer Lie!
That’s Not why they switched DTP to TDaP.
From NVIC:
“DPT vaccine is a combination of three inactivated bacterial vaccines: diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus. There are many different forms and combinations of these vaccines licensed for use in the United States.”Dooms
“I have a saved copy of the 2014 John Hopkins Patient Guide which DID state that the immunocompromised should avoid recently compromised. You can still see the 2014 Patient Guide online. Also the Vaccine Inserts
used to say…”Soooooo your two claims above, that Hopkins advises avoiding newly vaccinated and regarding the insert aren’t true. Correct?
If you had said “used to say” that might be correct but it doesnt quite have the same ring (or you couldn’t be bothered to look it up. Correct?Health,
I read most of that case, there is no mention of the cotwatch, furthermore, the court acknowledges that there is no evidence that the shot was connected to the SIDS, there were many other possible factors including the fact that the child was born prematurely and was recently taken to the hospital for respiratory complaints.
Also, the child was found face down, with a pillow and loose blanket.
Yet the court ruled that the parents do not have the burden of proving the link, and the pharmaceutical company has not proven that there was a different cause to the SIDS.
So you’re backing off from your “157 studies” claim entirely, correct? I applaud you for being honest. But I sincerely believe that you should back off of more goalpost movements until you’ve at least done your homework on your initial claims.
To shoot for your current goal, Viera Scheibner lied about disease statistics in various reports, such as polio rates, SIDS rates, and measles in Japan. So why should I believe her alleged CotWatch data that was done in her own lab, under her own watch, with no control group, and no oversight?
2scents -“Health,
I read most of that case, there is no mention of the cotwatch, furthermore, the court acknowledges that there is no evidence that the shot was connected to the SIDS, there were many other possible factors including the fact that the child was born prematurely and was recently taken to the hospital for respiratory complaints.”Look – I’m explaining his manipulation.
Go to Health Freedom Idaho online and click on
“COURT RULES VACCINES CONTRIBUTE TO AND CAUSE SIDS Deaths”
There you’ll find the article that connects Scheibner to the Court Case.
I’m exposing this FRAUD!I didn’t know they changed the vaccine inserts and hospital guides until now.
The point is, Recently Vaccinated children CAN be contagious so it is wrong to bar unvaccinated children from
school, while allowing recently vaccinated children to attend.
The reason Vaccine Industry is bribing states to take away personal/religious exemptions is because
Unvaccinated children are the SMOKING GUN to prove Atrocities committed by Vaccine Industry and CDC.
The CDC refuses to do a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study because they know it will PROVE that Vaccines cause
Autism, Allergies, Asthma, Epilepsy, ADHD, etc.
So take away the religious/personal exemptions, force EVERYONE to vaccinate – and make Unvaccinated ILLEGAL, thereby DESTROYING THE EVIDENCE against Vaccine Industry and CDC.
It’s like if the Tobacco Industry Bribed States to MANDATE that everyone Smoke Cigarettes in order to
COVER UP that Cigarettes cause Cancer. And heart disease, stroke and emphasyma.I’m okay with kids getting vacation after a vaccine, because that is actually only fair to the child as well.
Doomsday: Why does CDC refuse to do a RETROSPECTIVE vax vs unvaxxed study?
2cents: There are retrospective studies, here is one. PubMed 12523209, in fact, it is a very large one. Here is another one, JAMA 2275444I asked you if these studies were vaxxed vs unvaxxed and you said yes, they were.
NO, they are NOT. I don’t blame you. The researchers and government FRAUDULENTLY refer to children who are Vaccinated as “Unvaccinated” if they did not get 100% of available vaccines.
JAMA 2275444 – compared vaccinated children + MMR with Vaccinated children – MMR
PubMed 12523209 also compared vaccinated children + MMR with Vaccinated children – MMRIt’s like comparing people who smoke 5 packs a day vs people who smoke 4 packs a day and then saying
since both groups get cancer, that proves cigarettes don’t cause cancer.
And it’s Fraudulently calling people who smoke 4 packs a day, instead of 5 packs a day, NON-SMOKERS!doomsday -“NO, they are NOT. I don’t blame you. The researchers and government FRAUDULENTLY refer to children who are Vaccinated as “Unvaccinated” if they did not get 100% of available vaccines.”
Since you Never went to High School – you can’t read & understand research articles!
In the JAMA article they also discuss – No vaxxed kids.JAMA 2275444 –
“We also found no evidence that receipt of either 1 or 2 doses of MMR vaccination was associated with an increased risk of ASD among children who had older siblings with ASD”Dooms,
“The point is, Recently Vaccinated children CAN be contagious”
Where are you taking this from? You just concluded that you erred and this is not the case.
doomsday
please please stop hocking a chainek
“It’s like comparing people who smoke 5 packs a day vs people who smoke 4 packs a day and then saying
since both groups get cancer, that proves cigarettes don’t cause cancer.”no, it would be like saying that smoking a fifth cigarette doesnt increase your risk.
The study shows that the MMR vaccine doesnt increase risk of autism.
Look at the very title:
“Autism Occurrence by MMR Vaccine Status Among US Children With Older Siblings With and Without Autism”“I didn’t know they changed the vaccine inserts and hospital guides until now.”
I know, because you haven’t researched this topic a all. you just parrot silly talking points from pro-disease groups.
You don’t even know how to draw conclusions, look at ho w badly you misinterpreted the aforementioned MMR study“The reason Vaccine Industry is bribing states to take away personal/religious exemptions ”
source please
“The point is, Recently Vaccinated children CAN be contagious”
source please (a current one)
“Dooms,
”
“I asked you if these studies were vaxxed vs unvaxxed and you said yes, they were.
NO, they are NOT. I don’t blame you. The researchers and government”This is not fraud, not sure why you have to label them like this, its only focused on the MMR vaccine, why does this constitute fraud??
For now, can you lay to rest that there are studies comparing children with the MMR vaccine to children without the MMR vaccine which show that there is no difference to autism?
What other studies are you looking for?
There are studies comparing cognitive test scores that were done in the Philippines. Vaccinated children scored better.
Regarding asthma and allergies, vaccinated children had a lower rate of those.There are studies comparing cognitive test scores that were done in the Philippines. Vaccinated children scored better.
There might be a genetic factor.
@doomsday “157 studies”. Don’t forget your initial goals!
DaasYochid,
This is from the Study.
“Abstract
We use data from the Cebu Longitudinal Health and Nutrition Survey (CLHNS) in the Philippines to link vaccination in the first 2 years of life with later physical and cognitive development in children. We use propensity score matching to estimate the causal effect of vaccination on child development. We find no effect of vaccination on later height or weight, but full childhood vaccination for measles, polio, Tuberculosis (TB), Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus (DPT) significantly increases cognitive test scores relative to matched children who received no vaccinations. The size of the effect is large, raising test scores, on average, by about half an SD.”Of course, this is just a correlation, does this mean that vaccines actually make people smarter? Probably not.
This would not be a reason for one to vaccinate, nor is this part of the argument.There might be other factors on why children whose parents decided to vaccinate them scored better. However, if the results would have been the other way around, I am sure that the anti-vaxxers would have been all over this.
There might be other factors on why children whose parents decided to vaccinate them scored better.
Right. Genetics.
Be careful there’s a lot of whitewashing pharmaceutical propaganda around, one has to look at the real data to find out exactly what’s going on, the companies tend to give truthful admissions hidden away in tiny writing on package inserts.
I see people here debating about whether SIDS can cause crib death, I’ll provide you with an official admission from a recent package insert below to clear that one up:-
“if your baby was born very prematurely (at or before 28 weeks of gestation) longer gaps than normal between breaths may occur for 2-3 days after vaccination. These babies may require respiratory monitoring for 48-72h following the administration of the first two or three doses of Infanrix hexa.”
I have a link, but I am not sure if I can post it, the text above is from from the Infanrix Hex package insert on medicines.org.uk
If one looks at the package insert for live vaccines such as MMR, there are warnings given that you can shed the virus onto others.
Lucy, nobody debated about whether SIDS causes crib death. That would be a stupid debate, and I’m insulted that you think anyone here would do that.
Lucy,
Not sure what your point is, this seems like a pretty clear advisory and warning from the pharmaceutical company, not a whitewash.
in fact, it seems that the inserts you are quoting is in line what was published in Pediatrics.
“Apnea occurring within 72 hours (peak, 12–24 hours) of administration of DTwP vaccine to ELBW infants <31 weeks’ gestation was described in up to 12% of recipients of whole-cell pertussis-containing vaccines in some studies”.
Once we’re at it, any viral or bacterial infection for these smaller infants are considered dangerous and deadly.
Lucy,
“If one looks at the package insert for live vaccines such as MMR, there are warnings given that you can shed the virus onto others.”
From Merck.
“There are no reports of transmission of live attenuated measles or mumps viruses from vaccinees to
susceptible contacts.”From CDC website:
“Some vaccinees intermittently shed small amounts of virus from the pharynx 7-28 days after vaccination. However, studies of greater than 1,200 susceptible household contacts and experience gained over 20 years of vaccine use failed to identify transmission of vaccine virus. These findings indicate that vaccinating susceptible children whose mothers or other household contacts are pregnant does not present a risk. Rather, vaccination of such children provides protection for these pregnant women. ”
No whitewashing here.
2Cents, I repeatedly asked “Why doesn’t the CDC do a RETROSPECTIVE Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study?”
YOU repeatedly said CDC DID do such a study and referred to 2 studies: JAMA 2275444 and PubMed 12523209.
I asked You: Are these Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Studies? and You (2Cents) replied “Yes” as did other ProVaxxers.
But you are WRONG! These studies compare Vaxxed Children with Vaxxed Children – only difference is some got MMR and some did not! So it is NOT a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study as You Provaxxers said it was.
So please answer me: WHY Wont’ CDC do a Retrospective Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study???
CDC and Vaccine Industry is working DESPERATELY to outlaw Unvaccinated so that it would be impossible to ever do a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study!!! It’s as if Tobacco Industry got CDC to FORCE everyone to Smoke Cigarettes so it would be impossible to do a Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study!!!Doomsday:“The point is, Recently Vaccinated children CAN be contagious”
2Cents: Where are you taking this from?1. There are Newspaper stories documenting people caught diseases from Vaccinated people.
2. Vaccine Inserts acknowledge that Recently Vaccinated CAN transmit disease but then say the risk is
very small.
3. Until 2015, Vaccine Inserts said That Newly Vaccinated should be kept away from Immunocompromised for several weeks. Hospital Guides said the same thing.
Based on WHAT STUDIES did Vaccine Industry CHANGE the Vaccine Inserts from Recently Vaccinated ARE a Risk of spreading Disease to Recently Vaccinated are “little risk” of Spreading Disease???
NO STUDIES!!! This was changed because AntiVaxxers asked “Why are you barring UNvaccinated from school when you allow RECENTLY Vaccinated in school and you WRITE ON INSERTS and HOSPITAL GUIDES that Recently Vaccinated ARE ad DANGER to the immunocompromised???
There are NO STUDIES justifying the changed guidelines – it is FRAUD to eliminate All Unvaccinated so that there can NEVER be a Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed Study!!! To cover up Vaccines cause Autism & much more!It’s as if Tobacco Industry got CDC to FORCE everyone to Smoke Cigarettes so it would be impossible to do a Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study!!!
That would be immoral.
So would not having people vax to do a study.
2scents “Not sure what your point is, this seems like a pretty clear advisory and warning from the pharmaceutical company, not a whitewash.”
I’m illustrating the fact that when you get away from the whitewashing sites and articles, you do see the industry themselves admitting that vaccines can cause crib death/SIDS.
RebYid23,
I meant vaccines causing crib death, not SIDS causing crib death, my bad
Dooms,
“But you are WRONG! These studies compare Vaxxed Children with Vaxxed Children – only difference is some got MMR and some did not! So it is NOT a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study as You Provaxxers said it was.”
You are correct, this is only focused on the MMR vaccine, this is what I intended to show when I posted these studies.
Are you acknowledging the safety of the MMR shots by now moving away from the MMR and acknowledging these studies only to focus on other vaccines??are there any specific vaccines that you make any claims to?
Lucy,
“I’m illustrating the fact that when you get away from the whitewashing sites and articles, you do see the industry themselves admitting that vaccines can cause crib death/SIDS.”
Or, you see how the healthcare industry actually advises of these risks which means that this should be taken into consideration, not an admission not a whitewashing.
This is actually THE websites that advise about the safety of vaccines, they do advise about this very concern.
doomsday,
Good to see someone who’s done their research, well done to you and for sharing it here. Most people just assume the science on vaccines has already been performed, it is only those who look deeper who discover that it hasn’t.
DaasYochid ☕ “So would not having people vax to do a study.”
Yes, unfortunately the industry refuses to perform the required studies, so the current vaccines are no better than shots in the dark. People who call for the studies to be performed are shouted down as being anti-science or anti-vax, when they reality is that it is the industry itself who are keen to avoid any kind of high quality science.
All the while, the industry get to profit from the asthma, epilepsy, diabetes type 1 etc that vaccines are causing.
Dooms,
“Based on WHAT STUDIES did Vaccine Industry CHANGE the Vaccine Inserts from Recently Vaccinated ARE a Risk of spreading Disease to Recently Vaccinated are “little risk” of Spreading Disease???”
Why are you giving out homework?
If you really want to know, do a quick search, its the age of information. One example below.
PubMed15106106
Sorry, I did not read through all 601 posts, but there are studies, like:
Madsen, K. M., Hviid, A., Vestergaard, M., Schendel, D., Wohlfahrt, J., Thorsen, P., … & Melbye, M. (2002). A population-based study of measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination and autism. New England Journal of Medicine, 347(19), 1477-1482. That concludes that there are no associates between the MMR and Autism.In addition, there are numerous studies that show that there are no link between SIDS and vaccination. it appears that the opposite is correct, the vaccination may as well reduce the risk of SIDS.
Hoffman, H. J., Hunter, J. C., Damus, K., Pakter, J., Peterson, D. R., van Belle, G., & Hasselmeyer, E. G. (1987). Diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis immunization and sudden infant death: results of the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Cooperative Epidemiological Study of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome risk factors. Pediatrics, 79(4), 598-611.
Mitchell, E. A., Stewart, A. W., & Clements, M. (1995). Immunisation and the sudden infant death syndrome. New Zealand Cot Death Study Group. Archives of disease in childhood, 73(6), 498-501.
However, as people mentioned, not all studies are clear cut. However, what is clear is the risk outweighs the adverse effect; as studies have shown it is minimal.
Ellenberg, S. S., & Chen, R. T. (1997). The complicated task of monitoring vaccine safety. Public health reports, 112(1), 10.
Lucy,
“Good to see someone who’s done their research, well done to you and for sharing it here. Most people just assume the science on vaccines has already been performed, it is only those who look deeper who discover that it hasn’t”
Nothing personal against Doomsday, however almost everything that Dooms posted was proven to be incorrect, most of the posts are directly copied from age of autism site, not sure why you are patting dooms on the back about this.
the current vaccines are no better than shots in the dark.
No, they’ve been studied extensively and found to be both safe and effective.
The only response to that will be to claim that it’s all a huge conspiracy theory.
Dooms keeps mentioning Scheibner and her magic machine. Scheibner couldn’t even get through medical school (ONLY ONE year)! She’s a geologist, to be exact a micro-paleontologist (someone who studies microfossils). And even THAT degree she got from the University of Bratislava! Can you believe it?? What a joke!!! She has ZERO credibility in pediatrics or medicine, consistent with everything Dooms posts. But, I can’t believe she keeps referencing Scheibner when I explained to her many posts ago that Scheibner’s comments are useless as she knows nothing about medicine but of course Dooms doesn’t listen. What Scheibner HAS done is amassed lots of money supporting the anti-vaxxer cult. And this gives me an opportunity to point out that many of the “star doctors,” “star scientists,” and “star researchers” – and “star lawyers” – NONE of whom are stars – that the anti-vaxxer group keeps quoting are in it ONLY for the money!!! And they are making LOTS of it – more than most of the government researchers and Pharmaceutical employees that the anti-vaxxers keep putting down. Wakefield the shamed evil charlatan is a prime example. So, as I’ve tried to teach Doomsey before, she only proves the weakness of her arguments by needing to scrape the bottom of the barrel and pull “scientists” like geologists out of the sewer to try to make her very flawed pathetic case.
DaasYochid: That would be immoral. So would not having people vax to do a study.
Pay attention. I said a RETROSPECTIVE study. Comparing children who are already Unvaxxed with the
Vaccinated. It is still legal for parents not to vax so there are plenty of Unvaxxed available.Lucy: “if your baby was born very prematurely (at or before 28 weeks of gestation) longer gaps than normal between breaths may occur for 2-3 days after vaccination. These babies may require respiratory monitoring for 48-72h following the administration of the first two or three doses of Infanrix hexa.”
Thank you, Lucy. It is a CRIME that CDC forces vaccination on PREMATURE babies – starting at birth!
Nurses report that when vaccinating Premies, they have a team waiting to RESUSCITATE the babies who go into Shock upon vaccination! Yet the CDC won’t change it’s policy that Premies must follow the same schedule as full term babies!ProVaxxers, Still waiting for answer “Why CDC refuses to do RETROSPECTIVE vax vs unvaxxed Study” as requested by Congressmen and Unvaxxers!
2cents claimed there WERE such studies but I pointed that those studies compared Vaxxed to Vaxxed. Any Answers to my question?
And don’t say “unethical”. Look up the definition of RETROSPECTIVE if you don’t understand it.Lucy: doomsday, Good to see someone who’s done their research, well done to you and for sharing it here. Most people just assume the science on vaccines has already been performed, it is only those who look deeper who discover that it hasn’t.
Thank you for the encouragement. I am not posting for the ProVaxxers – Vaccine is a Religion for them and no
amount of evidence will change their minds. I am posting for the benefit of “those on the fence” who need to
see that Anti-Vaxxers are NOT a bunch of Crazies as the Fake News says, but people who have spent much time DOING THEIR OWN RESEARCH. Fact is Anti-Vaxxers are mostly White, Upper Middle Class, College Educated.Pay attention. I said a RETROSPECTIVE study. Comparing children who are already Unvaxxed with the
Vaccinated. It is still legal for parents not to vax so there are plenty of Unvaxxed available.Pay attention to what I’m responding to. “It’s as if Tobacco Industry got CDC to FORCE everyone to Smoke Cigarettes so it would be impossible to do a Smoker vs Non-Smoker Study!!!” That’s not retrospective.
As far as a retrospective study, unless you specifically have a group with placebos, which would be immoral, you can’t control for variables besides the actual vaccine, so the study wouldn’t be accurate. This has been pointed out before; I’m not sure why you keep on reiterating debunked arguments.
Doomsday: “But you are WRONG! These studies compare Vaxxed Children with Vaxxed Children – only difference is some got MMR and some did not! So it is NOT a Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study as You Provaxxers said it was.”
2cents: You are correct, this is only focused on the MMR vaccine, this is what I intended to show when I posted these studies.
Folks, see how ProVaxxers LIE??? I asked for a study comparing Vaxxed and Unvaxxed and 2Cents kept posting There ARE such studies and listed two of them. When I checked the studies, they were NOT Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed as 2cents FALSELY claimed there were.
I was “dan l’kaf zechus” that maybe 2cents was confused because these studies FRAUDULENTLY refer to children who did not get ONE vaccine (but got others) as “UnVaccinated”.
But 2Cents openly states she KNOWINGLY deceived me, saying these studies were Vaxxed vs UnVaxxed but she KNEW that they were NOT!
ProVaxxers: Still waiting for explanation why CDC refuses requests from Congressmen and Anti-Vaxxers for
a RETROSPECTIVE Vaxxed vs Unvaxxed Study!
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