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LA mother
“Some rational arguments against them. ”
I’d love to, but I can’t find any
“Take an hour or two of your life. ”
Sadly i’ve taken more than that :, (
“Look at the videos and back up proofs of anti vax experts.”
Yep done that
doomsday”
“on your point –Are the UNVACCINATED a Danger to others?”
No, that is not my point
you said “The thread debate has been whether vaccines are dangerous.”Wrong, as you are about almost everything.
This thread has been about many differnt things, which while related are in fact separate. Here are some of them:
– Is measles dangerous
– Can doctors be trusted
– can quacks who falsify data be trusted
– the role of government in healthcare decisions and policy
– whether those with loony positions should have their positions respected
– If there is a Jewish religious view not to vaccinateIn your last post you said pro-diseasers ” want the same RIGHT as you to make a Medical Decision for OUR children” (note this argument has nothing to do with whether that decision is a sound one or not)
My question to you, is what about those who are pro-vaccine, do we have the right to keep our children away from children of pro-diseasers .
Can you please answer?
The rest of your post was wrong and unrelated.
“1. Per Vaccine Inserts, Newly VACCINATED children can shed (spread) the Disease for SIX WEEKS following Vaccination.”This is a lie. I read the Merck vaccine insert it says no such thing
“2. The John Hopkins Patient Guide warns the Immuno-Compromised to avoid Newly VACCINATED
Children. ”
This too is a lie
The guide is available online, search “john hopkins immunocompromised” it is the first hit.when you say youve done research, did you just read some anti-vax pro-disease nonsense? Seriously you provided 2 statements above where you not even a little curious to do a quick search to see if they were true? The vaccien insert isnt long!, do a text search for “shedding” cmon you aren’t even trying to make a good case for pro-diseaser/anti-vaxxers.
Are yo u sure you arent secretly provax just trying to make the anti vax group look silly?
Also
Yserbius: used faulty logic to be motzei shem ra that I’m a liar. Do you know why myself and @2cents are saying there aren’t any studies backing up your assertions? Because there aren’t!
Folks, it is Very Sad that Yserbius is incapable of understanding that just because He or the CDC does not AGREE with the 157 Studies Linking Vaccines to Autism, it is still a LIE to say There AREN’T any studies linking
Vaccines to Autism. Of course, there are.Yserbius: just want to give you the correct answers (you can ignore Doomsay-she doesn’t know anything about science). Re: Dr. Scheibner-she’s not a real doctor-didn’t get past the first year of med school. Her doctorate from the university of Bratislava is in geology. So, you can disregard anything she said. She clearly has zero to contribute about vaccines (unless you are injecting dirt and stones-her expertise). As for the purported 157 autism studies, those who say there are no studies, they are correct. Any studies that are not valid, like those 157, can just be disregarded. Science does not consider invalid studies to be studies. So those who say there are no studies are correct.
Why do antivaxxers not believe that vaccines have the side effect of preventing allergies? It makes scientific sense, and it might even be true.
Dooms,
“Folks, it is Very Sad that Yserbius is incapable of understanding that just because He or the CDC does not AGREE with the 157 Studies Linking Vaccines to Autism, it is still a LIE to say There AREN’T any studies linking
Vaccines to Autism. Of course, there are.”That is NOT (Mods, sorry for the CAPS) what Yserbius has stated, not that they disagree with these studies (which may or may not be the case), only that they do not imply what you say that they imply.
At this point, I am fairly convinced that you are not such a rational person, more like an ‘alternative’ person.
Syog: The fact that you seem to interchange autism and vegetative state shows your ignorance.
LA Mom posted that two of her friends children fell into a vegetative state after vaccination.
I Did Not Interchange Autism and Vegetative State as you Lie!Please read the articles I keep posting before you respond to me again. You clearly haven’t read them or you wouldn’t be responding to me in that fashion. It’s not that I don’t “agree” with the 157 studies. It’s that the don’t exist.
- “Vaccines and autism: A thorough review of the evidence” from the blog “The Logic of Science”
- “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link” from the blog “Vaxopedia”
I feel nothing but pity for you. There is no question that you are unable to deal with the autism of your family member (or perhaps a los of a different family member ch”v?) and are desperate to find a place to put blame and anger. I have never witnessed such intense denial from someone who is not psychotic except in someone protecting themselves from unbearable amounts of pain. And it only points to your level of pain and need to shield yourself from reality. NOBODY who is honest would ignore the facts like you do, or scream and shout insults at full volume at everyone with a differing opinion.
I am truly sorry for your pain. I am truly sorry for the way you have chosen not to face it head on. I am truly sorry that you cannot have a genuine conversation with people on this topic. May Hashem bentch you with a yeshua.To clarify my comments and your last post. I spent a bit Googling for “157 vaccine autism studies” and finally came up with a scribd.com document listed those studies. (it wasn’t so easy to find, despite what @doomsday says). It’s not that the studies aren’t valid, it’s just that 95% of them don’t actually have anything to do with vaccines and/or autism. It’s literally just a collection of random papers that share some words in common with the big scare words that the anti-vaxxer crowd likes to throw around.
Welcome to the religion of “Medical Freedomers”; not Judaism. There is a Meschta in Shas for this which Daf Yomi learned a few Meschtas ago.
Post hoc fallacy. Confirmation bias. I’d type more stuff, but you aren’t worth my time.
Yserbius: you’re correct. I meant valid as related to any vaccine-autism link.
Are yo u sure you arent secretly provax just trying to make the anti vax group look silly?
The thought occurred to me as well.
doomsday: 0.25 per 1,000 died of Pediarix ALONE. But US Babies get MULTIPLE vaccines at 2 months, 4 months,
and 6 months so their SIDS rate was even higher then babies who only got Pediarix in the vaccine trials.No. 0 out of 1,000 died of Pediarix. 0.25 out of 1,000 died after receiving Pediarix, which is about how many you would expect to die in that period no matter what.
And of course those babies did not get only Pediarix. They got all the normal vaccines as well, except the ones that Pediarix was designed to replace. The whole point of the trial was to see whether Pediarix did better than those other vaccines. They still needed to be protected from those diseases Pediarix doesn’t deal with, so they got everything else. And only 0.25 out of 1,000 died, which means Pediarix didn’t kill any of them.
And 90% of SIDS death “just happen” to occur during the 6 months when newborn babies are given multiple vaccines three times. What a Coincidence
Yes, it is a coincidence. Those are the same months that babies were dying for millennia before there were any vaccines.
Just like it is a “Coincidence” that Children get Autism right after their vaccinations
Again, that is when autistic children have always started showing symptoms, ever since the creation of the world, so yes, it is a coincidence.
ProVaxxers claim that vaccines only cause 1 in a Million deaths. But the vaccine trials of ONE vaccine showed a death rate 1:4,000. Which is the normal rate of crib death, with or without vaccines. The vaccines did not add anything to the expected number.
And Babies don’t get one vaccine at a time but 7-8 vaccines at a time so the death rate from vaccine is even higher then 1:4,000!
Again, no. The background crib death rate remains the same no matter how many vaccines are added, because vaccines do not kill babies (at least not in numbers measurable in a normal-scaled trial).
Prior to 1960s when Infant Vaccines became widespread, “crib death” as it was known was so RARE that it wasn’t even listed in infant mortality statistics!
More lies. Before the ’60s it was much more common for children to die for no known reason than it is now. It was just accepted that babies die. And that’s all crib death or SIDS is.
Folks, the ProVaxxers can’t dispute the PROOF that Dr. Scheibner produced:
Sure we can. I dispute it.
The ProVaxxers can’t dispute that studies published in the Most Prestigious Medical Journals all support Dr. Scheibner’s findings.
Yes, we can. If these studies existed that found the same things you say she did, you wouldn’t even need to mention her. You’d just cite them directly.
How can a Judge say the Parents brought sufficient proof that it is most likely their babies SIDS were caused by vaccines and in the same breath deny that vaccines present a substantial risk of SIDS???
He didn’t say that at all. On the contrary, he said the parents presented sufficient evidence and testimony to entitle them to compensation. That is all. They’re entitled to the money they applied for. They did not present evidence that vaccines present a substantial risk of SIDS.
You just answered your own question on what caused the number of SIDS to drop – they started attributing Babies dying in their sleep to OTHER causes such as “UNKNOWN Cause”
That is SIDS. There are not two categories.
the Number of Babies Dying in their Sleep was basically the Same – even after the “Back to Sleep” Campaign!
More lies. The number went down dramatically. The biggest proof that the drop is directly attributable to this message is that Australians got it a decade earlier and experienced a dramatic drop. For some reason it took ten years for American parents to get the same message, but lo and behold, as soon as they got it the same drop happened. In total deaths, not deaths written off as unexplained, which is what SIDS means. Any chart you’ve seen that says otherwise is fraudulent.
LA Mom posted that two of her friends children fell into a vegetative state after vaccination.
I Did Not Interchange Autism and Vegetative State as you Lie!Um, yes, you did. In reply #1638039 you did exactly that. You wrote that LA Mother’s fantastic story made sense because autism runs in families.
LA Mother: I dare anyone still pro vax and vax is only way to go, to just listen to Some rational arguments against them.
There aren’t any.
the huge amount of documented commission that pharmaceutical companies pay to doctors per vial they inject PNLY IF they reach a certain high percentage of their patients otherwise they get zero.
There is no such commission.
Partly the documented proof that for 20 cents more costs per vial the dlsaftey could be much higher
Not true.
One slight example. A lady I know had a kid become vegetative after a vaccine. She then had 2 normal kids she didnt vaccine. Then in another kid she was convinced by doc to vaccine again. Once again became vegetative for life after..just sayin</em
I don’t believe you. Just sayin’.
doomsday – “In Vaccine Court, the Parents are not suing the Vaccine Maker but the US Government is the Plaintiff, AND the US Government is also the Judge! How is that for UNBIASED? (Not!)”
So in your opinon – there No such thing as an Unbiased Judge.
Take for example – a ticket – you go to court to fight it. Why bother – the cop works for the Gov. & so does the Judge?!?“So of course, the US Judge who wrote the opinion is saying even though the Parents of Dead Babies brought sufficient evidence to Prove that Vaccines caused their babies of deaths (preponderance of evidence), the US government still will not admit that Vaccines causes SIDS because “the evidence is to the contrary”.
Just like you don’t know Medicine – you don’t know Law! You don’t understand how civil cases work. You don’t need to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt! You can win even if it’s Not For Sure!
“How can a Judge say the Parents brought sufficient proof that it is most likely their babies SIDS were caused by vaccines and in the same breath deny that vaccines present a substantial risk of SIDS??? Does anyone notice that the Judge is contradicting himself?”
Stop with your Lying! As a matter of fact the Judge wrote – I see NO Proof that vaccines causes SIDS, but there is proof the other Way Around.
To all the normal people in this conversation: I just want to call your attention to a new piece of junk that is being posted around town. It is titled “Junk food has a negative affect on your immune system” (the misspelling of “effect” is on the trashy letter, not my doing-since they don’t know any science, I wouldn’t expect them to be able to spell either) . This paper is actually a slimy anti-vaccine paper that, like all the others, is non-scientific sleazy trash. B”H, we were able to tear this one down from the bulletin board in shul where someone posted it (without any authorization). In case this is part of a new tactic by these idiots, I wanted to bring it to your attention so that if you see one you can tear it down and destroy it before it does any damage. What garbage! You can just destroy it along with the missionary materials that have been sent recently to homes in Lakewood since the two are basically the same thing, and it’s not clear to me which is worse. Just wanted to let you know to be on the lookout for this rubbish.
<i> If immunizations were responsible for the diminishing or disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place.</i>
One mustn’t ask it, because it isn’t true.
The number of measles deaths declined from 7575 in 1920 (10,000 per year in many years in the 1910s) to an average of 432 each year from 1958-1962.
So according to you there should have been 4320 deaths from measles between 2005 and 2014. Instead, you say
The vaccine was introduced in 1963. Between 2005 and 2014, there have been no deaths from measles in the U.S.
That isn’t quite true. There were something like five deaths from measles in that period. But close enough.
and 108 deaths from the MMR vaccine.
Wrong. As far as anyone can tell, there were NO deaths from the MMR vaccine.
These numbers are from the CDC.
No, they’re not. That last figure is from VAERS, not the CDC. And VAERS does not list events caused by the vaccine, it lists reports (which can be made by anyone) of events that happened to occur after a vaccine. So over the course of ten years, a bit under 11 deaths a year were reported of babies who just so happened to have received their routine MMR vaccine within the previous month.
Of course we know that many more than 11 babies die every year within a month of being vaccinated. It would be astonishing — miraculous — if there were really so few infant deaths, from all causes, over the course of a month, in the whole USA. But in 11 cases a year someone thought to file a report. Perhaps a lawyer who wanted to sue. Or some conscientious doctor who wanted there to be a record because that’s what VAERS is for, and it’s useless as a research if people won’t file reports just because it’s obvious to them that a baby drowning in a pool is not connected to the shot she got three weeks ago.
I’ve read with interest all the posts in this ongoing debate about vaccines. One thing that impresses me is that it appears that doomsday has done her homework concerning this issue, while the pro vaxxers are just content with vilifying her by mocking and calling her various names. Pro vaxxers, you are doing a disservice to your cause and viewpoint by acting as 5 years old children with your name calling and shouting. Any intelligent person will see that you don’t have anything substantial to say except to having full and complete faith in the government and it’s agencies.
If the government is so infallible how is it that we’ve have so many tragedies in the past where thousands of people have lost their lives due to the government’s error of approving various dangerous drugs (vioxx for example).
If you’re so trusting of government policies you should agree to the current move by the N.Y. Dept. of Education to implement 6-7 hours of secular studies in Yeshivos. After all they are populated by the greatest brains and that have our best interest in mind?
What about the current gezairo of the British Government to introduce nevola studies in chadorim and yeshivos.
So much for trusting our governments blindly.
I just ask all of you to open up your eyes and do the research about vaccines before you label those that disagree with you as cultist or meshuga etc. and not just depend on the opinion of doctors who don’t have the background or time to properly research this topic (as heard from Dr. Paul Offit who happens to be a prominent proponent of vaccinations).Pro vaxxers, you are doing a disservice to your cause and viewpoint by acting as 5 years old children with your name calling and shouting.
Bais hillel: welcome. You claim to have read the posts with interest but then mistakenly think the name calling and yelling was the provaxxers. If you try again you will see how many of doomsdays posts are in all caps and how many times the mods asked her to stop yelling.
How blind one can get when determined to support someone purely because they have the same views. If anything, it just prives that honesty and intefrity are NOT actually on your priority list here.
@bais hillel
@doomsday literally spent about 3 days doing nothing but saying “Liar!” in all caps and bold to anyone who dared say that she’s wrong while the only “research” she seemed to have done involved stating facts without reference that no one here was able to actually verify.baishillel: One thing that impresses me is that it appears that doomsday has done her homework concerning this issue, while the pro vaxxers are just content with vilifying her by mocking and calling her various names.
THANK YOU for your support. Attacking the person and not the argument is what one does when one
cannot refute the argument. The ProVaxxers are just like the Democrat Socialists – instead of debating
ISSUES with Republican Candidates they just call names “Racist” “Nazi” “Homophobe”.This was especially true when I brought up Dr. Scheibner who invented a device to record babies breathing in the crib (also known as a cot) called Cotwatch. Dr. Scheiber discovered that AFTER receiving DPT vaccine some babies developed Apnea (stopped breathing) and Shallow breathing! This was proof that DPT vaccine causes SIDS. Dr. Scheibner wrote a study. And there were Other studies written up in the most prestigious medical journals that supported Dr. Scheibner’s findings. Many parents won compensation for SIDS using Dr. Scheibner and her research. And to win compensation you have to PROVE that Vaccine caused SIDS by Preponderance of Evidence.
Well the Provaxxers went crazy attacking Dr. Scheibner because she was not a Medical Doctor or a Medical Researcher but a GEOLOGIST! As if that matters! The ProVaxxers could not refute what Dr. Scheibner
PROVED so they resorted to attacking Dr. Scheibner.It’s almost like they were trained by Government who seeks to destroy doctors or scientists who produces evidence against vaccines – and the ProVaxxers pretend not to understand that many AntiVax Doctors and Scientists are AFRAID (and rightly so!) to come out PUBLICLY against Vaccines. Although 13% of doctors said they will not vaccinate THEIR children according to CDC Schedule – that’s about 143,000 doctors – but only 150 Doctors criticize vaccines openly. And some of them have lost their license or were targets of criminal investigations.
Bais Hillel,
your opinion is appreciated as, your opinion. However we were attempting to focus on the facts which unfortunately for the anti-vax and alternative thinking people, do not point in their direction.
I and others are not invested in one direction or in any belief. If you show me the science and it is well researched I will not have any problem changing my position, the same is with the rest of the world.
It is done all the time, treatment modalities have changed dramatically as science and evidence has become available.
If being caught with lies, studies that do not exist, studies that actually conclude the opposite of what you thought they imply, is something that sits well with you, you do have an alternative way of consuming information, but do not blame the rest of us in buying into your cause.
Turth,
“DR ROBERT MENDELSON
If immunizations were responsible for the diminishing or disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place.”I am sure that you are familiar with Dr Mendelsohn’s work, He was anti-medicine and had a whole list of stuff against medicine, including that male doctors, mistreat female patients.
He was also of the opinion that all prenatal care we do is dangerous, he also was a strong advocate against hospital births.He was not the only physician that was against vaccines,
Dr. Immanuel Pfeiffer argued that smallpox is not contagious. after being invited to a hospital in Boston he contracted smallpox and became critically ill.
Maybe if Dr. Mendelsohn would not be against medicine, he would still be alive today.
Being that some of you consider yourself pro measles and pro polio, how about we redo the challenge that was done in the early 1900s, and subject yourself to these yummy viruses.
Unfortunately, there are a number of recent hospitalizations and admissions to ICU of unvaccinated children that contracted the measles virus, they developed bad cases of pneumonia, these are the short-term complications.
These children are victims of their parents’ nonsensical belief that is based on garbage science.
Dooms,
“Well the Provaxxers went crazy attacking Dr. Scheibner because she was not a Medical Doctor or a Medical Researcher but a GEOLOGIST! As if that matters! The ProVaxxers could not refute what Dr. Scheibner
PROVED so they resorted to attacking Dr. Scheibner.”I wrote a response to this, not sure why it did not go through.
Basically, her work was proven to be incorrect, the data she used was incorrect I will not go so far as to say she intentionally did so, yet I would not be surprised if she was bent on reaching her predetermined conclusion and falsified the data.
In short, in 1993 she wrote that in her book that vaccines are the main reason behind SIDS, however from 1992 until 2006, vaccine rates in Austraila went from 53% to 92%.
In the same time, SIDS had a 81% decrease.There are numerous studies that actually prove that vaccines are associated with reduced SIDS, (PubMed 17400342).
You mention that her Cotwatch breathing was used to win compensation, where is your source to this claim?
Hey ProVaxxers who attack Dr. Scheibner for not being a Medical Doctor (but she is a research scientist in geology). Do you use Light Bulbs? Do you know Light Bulbs were invented by someone was NOT AN ENGINEER! Didn’t even go to College! Didn’t even go to High School! Didn’t even go to Elementary School!
America’s Greatest Inventor, THOMAS EDISON, was SELF EDUCATED. Taught at home by his mother after a School Teacher told his mother that Edison was “addled” i.e. Mentally ill. Mostly Self Taught. The Socialist Leftist won’t accept anything from someone who was not TRAINED in their Indoctrination Factories (Colleges) where if you don’t toe the Socialist Line (or at least pretend to) you cannot get a Degree. That is how they ensure that all “EXPERTS” spout whatever propaganda they were trained to spout. And those who disagree are trained to keep QUIET and not speak out!
truthishidden – Only by You Anti-Vaxxers!
“DR ROBERT MENDELSON
If immunizations were responsible for the diminishing or disappearance of these diseases in the United States, one must ask why they disappeared simultaneously in Europe, where mass immunizations did not take place”Stop with your Lying!
Here are the Facts from the WHO:
The WHO is the international resource on World Wide Medicine:“Even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available, in 2017, there were 110 000 measles deaths globally, mostly among children under the age of five.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 80% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2017 worldwide.
In 2017, about 85% of the world’s children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.
During 2000-2017, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 21.1 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.”2scents: These children are victims of their parents’ nonsensical belief that is based on garbage science.
The Unvaccinated Children who got Measles are 100% recovered – even the ones who got pneumonia.
Unlike the Vaccinated Children who Do NOT recover from vaccined but are the SICKEST Generation in the History of the United States – They are the Victims of MANDATED Vaccines. If Vaccines were not Mandated many Parents would not vaccinate.
If Vaccines are SO WONDERFUL how come we need the GOVERNMENT to FORCE it on everyone???!!!The Children who are FORCIBLY Vaccinated suffer from:
1:6 children are learning disabled
1:6 children are allergic
1:13 children have asthma
1:15 children have ADHD
1:5 teens had episode of mental illness
1:8 children have IBS
1:59 children have autism
1:100 children have epilepsy
1:250 children have tourettes syndrome
1:400 children have diabetes
1:775 babies die of SIDS
1:1,000 children have Celiac Disease
1:5,560 children have CANCER168 Deaths following vaccines reported to VAERS every year (really THOUSANDS 0nly 1-13% reported)
ZERO deaths from Measles (in USA).Dooms,
Can you please provide the source for someone receiving compensation based on the Cotwath breathing?
Dr Scheibner claimed in 1993 that vaccines are the main contributor to SIDS, yet from 1992 until 2006 vaccination rates went from 53% to 92%, yet in the same time SIDS has decreased with 81%.
She does not have the credentials to have an opinion, the data she provided was proven to be incorrect, the Japan claims she madehas proven to just the opposite of what she claimed.
In fact, there are many studies done that show that vaccines actually reduce the cases of SIDS. PubMed 17400342.
As was mentioned earlier, Dr Scheiber was awarded the bent spoon aware. which is awarded to the perpetrator of the most preposterous piece of pseudoscientific piffle” (in case you didn’t realize, not much of a prestigious award).
So yes, the rest of the world does not fall for studies that are incorrect, studies that contain incorrect facts, so we discard her junk science and her little invention.
@doomsday As I see you are back to posting, I want to know if you’ve had time to review the sites I posted about.
- “Vaccines and autism: A thorough review of the evidence” from the blog “The Logic of Science”
- “About Those Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link” from the blog “Vaxopedia”
If you haven’t I don’t see how you can continue this conversation with honesty. You claimed to have done research, yet you don’t tell us where to find any of that research. I show you a site stating that your research is faulty, but suddenly you don’t have time to read a web page.
truthishidden -“Between 2005 and 2014, there have been no deaths from measles in the U.S”
Stop with your Lying!
From Vaxopedia:
“2000 – 86 cases – 1 measles death (infant) – endemic spread of measles eliminated in U.S.
2001 – 116 cases – 1 measles death
2002 – 44 cases
2003 – 55 cases – 1 measles death (1 year old)
2004 – 37 cases – record low number of measles cases
2005 – 66 cases – 1 measles death (1 year old)
2006 – 55 cases
2007 – 43 cases
2008 – 140 cases
2009 – 71 cases – 2 measles deaths
2010 – 63 cases – 2 measles deaths
2011 – 220 cases
2012 – 55 cases – 2 measles deaths
2013 – 187 cases (large outbreak in New York City – 58 cases)
2014 – 667 cases (the worst year for measles since 1994, including the largest single outbreak since the endemic spread of measles was eliminated – 377 cases in Ohio)
2015 – 188 cases – got off to a strong start with a big outbreak in California – 1 measles death
2016 – 86 cases
2017 – 118 cases”This Proves that Anti-Vaxxers are Rodfim and should be thrown out of Frum Communities!
SomeCommonSense: Welcome to the religion of “Medical Freedomers”;
If anything is a religion it is the ProVaxxers who just ignore that AFTER the CDC tripled the Vaccine Schedule – AFTER the Pharmaceutical got IMMUNITY from lawsuits from death/injury from Vaccines – the Autism rate
went from 1:10,000 to 1:50 and this is the SICKEST GENERATION in the History of USA! Rates of Learning Disabilities, ADHD, Allergies, Asthma, Ear Infections, Epilepsy, Diabetes and Cancer are all skyrocketing!The CDC REFUSES to do a Retrospective Study on Vaccinated vs Unvaccinated that was demanded by Congressmen. Because such a study would PROVE that Vaccines cause Permanent Injury and are not worth the risk. There have been several such studies (CDC LIES that there aren’t any) that show that Children who are UNvaccinated are much healthier then Vaccinated Children.
Yserbius: [regarding 157 research papers showing link between vaccines and autism]
It’s not that the studies aren’t valid, it’s just that 95% of them don’t actually have anything to do with vaccines and/or autism.Another LIE! Here are the first 10 of the 157 papers in order (i did not pick them out). They DO show a link between Autism and Vaccines but ProVaxxers claim they have NOTHING to do with Vaccines or Autism:
1. Increased risk of Developmental neurologic IMPAIRMENT after high exposure to THIMEROSAL containing VACCINE in first month of life.
2. Pilot comparative study on health of VACCINATED and unvaccinated 6-12 year old US children
3. Hepatitus B VACCINATION of Male Neonates and AUTISM Diagnosis
4. Associations of prenatal and early childhood MERCURY exposure with AUTISTIC Behaviors at 5 years
5. The Association between MERCURY Exposure and AUTISM spectrum disorders
6. The putative role of environmental MERCURY in the pathogenesis and pathophysiology of AUTISM
7. Blood MERCURY, arsenic, cadmium and lead in children with AUTISM spectrum disorder.
8. Protective role of alpha-lipoic acid in IMPAIRMENTS in social and stereotypical behaviors induced by early
post-natal administration of THIMEROSAL in male rats.
9. Gender selective toxicity of THIMEROSAL.
10. MERCURY toxicokinetics – – dependency on strain and gender.Dooms,
I admire your persistence, despite being proven incorrect you still keep on repeating the same statements as if they are facts.
2Scents: Dooms, I admire your persistence, despite being proven incorrect you still keep on repeating the same statements as if they are facts.
Talking to yourself? Aren’t you the one who repeated the Lie: “There are NO studies linking Vaccines with Autism except for the fraudulent study by Wakefield.”
And when I PROVE that there ARE over 150 studies showing a link between Vaccines and Autism, you and
your fellow Liars/ProVaxxers just double down on the Lie. Absolutely shameless!Doomsday,
Vaccines no longer contain thimerosal. That makes most of your 157 studies irrelevant.
Please stop bringing those studies up as a support.
Health says antivaxxers are rodfim because they spread disease to others. But recently Vaccinated of LIVE
viruses shed the disease for weeks and there HAVE been cases of people catching disease from VACCINATED
people! Therefore, it may be the VACCINATED who are the Rodfim! And people who are vaccinated can catch the disease from the vaccine – documented cases!Online Article: Public Health Officials Know: Recently Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease: Excerpts below:
1. Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to “Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated,” and to “Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit
2. Adults have contracted polio from recently vaccinated infants. A father from Staten Island ended up in a wheel chair after contracting polio while changing his daughter’s diaper. He received a 22.5 million dollar award in 2009.Online Article: The Emerging Risks of Live Virus & Virus Vectored Vaccines: Vaccine Strain Virus Infection, Shedding & Transmission: Excerpts below
1, the Department of Defense in 2002 renewed a mandatory smallpox vaccination program for active duty
military service members. As a result, vaccinia virus infection, shedding and transmission became an issue
in the U.S. and has been documented among close contacts of recently vaccinated military personnel2. In 2010, the CDC reported cases of vaccinia virus infection in women whose partners serving in the military had received smallpox vaccine:
3. In 2007, a soldier transmitted vaccinia virus to his two year old child and the child nearly
died from eczema vaccinatum!4. In 2010, a case report was published in Pediatrics describing a 30 month old healthy boy who had never received rotavirus vaccine and was infected with vaccine strain rotavirus. He ended up in the emergency room with severe gastroenteritis 10 days after his healthy two month old brother was given a dose of Merck’s RotaTeq vaccine.
5. There are also a few reports of measles vaccine strain virus shedding and lab confirmed infection
in children following MMR vaccination.6. 2002, there was a published report by researchers in France of a child presenting with fever 8 days after vaccination with a measles mumps rubella vaccine. Measles virus was isolated in a throat swab taken 4 days after fever onset. This virus was then further genetically characterized as a vaccine type virus.”
Another online article: Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease Excerpts:
1. Study: Detection of Measles Virus RNA in Urine Specimens from Vaccine Recipients
2. Study: Comparison of the Safety, Vaccine Virus Shedding and Immunogenicity of Influenza Virus Vaccine, Trivalent, Types A and B, Live Cold-Adapted, Administered to Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV)-Infected and Non-HIV Infected Adults
3. Study: Sibling Transmission of Vaccine-Derived Rotavirus (RotaTeq) Associated with Rotavirus Gastroenteritis
4. News: Case of Vaccine-Associated Measles 5 Weeks Post Immunisation. The child who was vaccinated caught measles from the vaccine!
5. Study: Comparison of Shedding Characteristics of Seasonal Influenza Virus
6. Study: Epigenetics of Host–Pathogen Interactions: The Road Ahead and the Road Behind
7. Study: Animal Models for Influenza Virus Pathogenesis and Transmission
8. Study: Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate mode
Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease
Dooms,
A. There are retrospective studies, I have pointed out a few, why are you still requesting them when they actually exist?
B. Can you please point me to a study that links vaccines to autism?
Dooms.
“Talking to yourself? Aren’t you the one who repeated the Lie: “There are NO studies linking Vaccines with Autism except for the fraudulent study by Wakefield.””
Why is it a lie? I am still waiting for you to point me to one such study so I can review it.
Besides, the point was that YOU are just repeating stuff that have been refuted and earlier, yet you just repeat it again and again.
@doomsayer
Thanks for finally addressing my comment. But this is why I keep stressing that you need to read the blogs. They go through every single study on your list and show how it’s either irrelevant to the alleged vaccine-autism link, or how it doesn’t actually prove anything.
Take the studies you labeled 5, 6, 7, and 10 for instance. They look at ethylmercury exposure. Ethylmercury is a compound that was never part of vaccines. But since it sounds a bit like methylethyl mercury (thimerisol) people get confused.
Dooms,
Is the source of your information the website age of autism??
“1. Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to “Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated,” and to “Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit”.
Can you please point out where the guide is?
This has long not been the case, in fact, John Hopkins went out of the way to clear this misconception and write that this is not the case and there is no risk even for cancer patients.
“2. Adults have contracted polio from recently vaccinated infants. A father from Staten Island ended up in a wheel chair after contracting polio while changing his daughter’s diaper. He received a 22.5 million dollar award in 2009.”
Adults, or just one case?
This was from the OPV, this happened nearly 30 years ago. The OPV vaccine is not given in the united states.Doomsday
please please please researc hthe silliness yo uwrite. You are emabarrsaing yourself, and by extension the entire pro-disease mevement.
You keep repeatign false claims that are easy to debunk, and that you would be embarrassed to post if you did 30 seconds of research.
you wrote
“1. Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to “Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated,” and to “Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit”A 30 second google search shows that this is simply not true. Search “john hopkins immunocompromised”
the first hit is a link to their guide that does not claim what you claim it says.
This has already been pointed out to you.“2. Adults have contracted polio from recently vaccinated infants. A father from Staten Island ended up in a wheel chair after contracting polio while changing his daughter’s diaper. He received a 22.5 million dollar award in 2009.”
True, but misleading and irrelvant.
that was the oral polio vaccine that is no longer used.
Thanks to doctors (and obviosuly syata dishmaya) in spite of the evil work of anti-vaxxers (hence the name pro-diseasers) there has not been a single case in the US since the change.Hey ProVaxxers who attack Dr. Scheibner for not being a Medical Doctor (but she is a research scientist in geology). Do you use Light Bulbs?
Good grief.
First of all, what sort of “research scientist” is she in geology? What does it even mean? The only research to be done in micropalaeontology is analyzing a static fossil record to derive new conclusions. How can that give one even the slightest clue how to conduct medical research on whether a biological process is happening and if so what might be the causes? The whole post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy wouldn’t even come up in her field, because everything (supposedly) happened thousands or millions of years ago.
Second, we use light bulbs because they work, not because we trust Edison. Edison is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter who invented the incandescent bulb, or how. For all we care it could have been a five-year-old putting things together at random. But you are demanding that we believe this geologist’s medical findings because of her credentials, which for this field are non-existent.
If a janitor claimed to have conducted a medical study and found surprising results that contradict what we know of medicine, everyone would laugh. Well, she’s no better than a janitor. If her findings were true someone else would have found them too, and if that had happened you’d be citing them, not her.
Ditto for these supposed papers in legit journals that you claim found the same things as her; if they did, you’d cite them and you wouldn’t bother with her. The fact that you keep citing her proves that these supposed papers don’t exist.
Meno: Vaccines no longer contain thimerosal. That makes most of your 157 studies irrelevant.
Wrong! Thimerosal was NOT removed. It was shuffled around. When it was EXPOSED that the amount of
mercury in vaccines exceeded EPA safety guidelines, Vaccine Makers said they would remove thimerosal.
But they did NOT. Instead FDA allowed Vaccines labeled “Thimerosal Free” to contain up to 1 mcg of thimerosal – even though it is against the law to say something is “free” from a substance to contain even “trace amounts”.
Then CDC INCREASED the number of vaccines so these “trace amounts” ADD UP. Then CDC recommended that PREGNANT women (!) and babies get FLU Vaccines which contain 25 mcg of Thimerosal. Plus the amount of Aluminum babies were getting increased as well. This is how CDC tried to cover up that Thimerosal caused Autism – with TRICKERY that made sure the number of babies who developed Autism Increased after they
PRETENDED to remove Thimerosal. CDC and Vaccine Makers are Modern Day Nazis committing Atrocities!!!Ubiquiton: Johns Hopkins Patient Guide warns the immunocompromised to “Avoid contact with children who are recently vaccinated,” and to “Tell friends and family who are sick, or have recently had a live vaccine (such as chicken pox, measles, rubella, intranasal influenza, polio or smallpox) not to visit”
I have a saved copy of the 2014 John Hopkins Patient Guide which DID state that the immunocompromised should avoid recently compromised. You can still see the 2014 Patient Guide online. Also the Vaccine Inserts
used to say that recently vaccinated can shed the virus for 6 weeks and should avoid the immunocompromised.But then the Anti-Vaxxers started complaining “How can you ban Healthy Unvaccinated Children and Babies from School and Daycare but allow the Recently Vaccinated Children and Babies to go to School and Daycare?”
When the Anti-Vaxxers pointed out this CONTRADICTION to the Pharmaceutical Companies and CDC ,
they quickly removed the warning from vaccine inserts and hospital guides and then announced that Recently Vaccinated Children are NOT Contagious – but they really are!!! For Years the Pharmaceutical Companies and Hospitals said recently vaccinated children ARE contagious.
And there are studies and real life cases that prove it. So it may be the vaccinated children who are the “rodfim” and spreading disease!!! .Millhouse: Second, we use light bulbs because they work, not because we trust Edison.
You don’t have to “trust” Dr. Scheibner. Her invention “CotWatch” records the breathing of babies in
their cribs. The Computerized Records PROVE that AFTER DPT vaccines, babies experience Apnea (stopped breathing!) and Shallow Breathing. It was Dr. Scheibner’s INVENTION that is the proof DPT causes SIDS and
many parents have won awards in Vaccine Court for SIDS. And SIDS is on the vaccine inserts as a known
adverse event.
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