Stop the SHLEPPING In Shul! 🛑🐢🐌🕍

Joseph,

He explained quite clearly the problems with a dragged out davening. It has nothing to do with being in a rush.

Perhaps he’s in a rush so he can…

Spend more time learning with his children
Spend more time learning himself
Get home to help his wife with kids

There we go. Glass half full.

EinOdMilvado,

On Shabbos I daven at a hashkoma minyan that lasts about an hour and a half to an hour and 45 minutes with a kiddush afterwards, and there is still a problem with talking. And it’s the same people every week. As much as we want to be nice and blame circumstances for the talking, I feel that, unfortunately, the problem is due to a lack of respect on the part of the talkers. Lack of respect for the minyan, for the other mispallelim, and for Hashem. Yom Kippur davening lasts all day, and there is no talking problem. I think that’s because on Yom Kippur, everyone is aware that we are going to shul to daven.

DaasYochid,

Just imagine how bad the talking problem would be if they shlepped!

Maybe they’d form a kiddush club and leave.

Moving the Kiddush back to after musaf (rather than the “club”during the kiriah or the rav’s dvar where it belongs poses a separate risk because the drinkers also happen to be the more prolific and loudest talkers…the only “good” thing about a “vasikim Kiddush club” is that it draws these loudmouths out of the shul earlier in the deveningso the rest of us can hear the baal koreh and rav w/o the gabbai having to clop on the bimah every 2-3 minutes..

“If people know that they are coming to shul and are going to be there for at least two and a half hours, of course they are going to talk!! ”

Of course? If one had to sit through a dinner at the white house and 2 hours of boring speeches, would he talk to the guy sitting next to him? Why should hashems house be any different. Perhaps this person should move to a minyan that davens faster, so that he wont be bored in shul. Perhaps the person is bored because they have zero appreciation of what it means to be in shul in the presence of hashem. Perhaps this person sees tefilla as nothing short of a chore, chalila, and thats why he is bored. There are many, many people who attend such shuls and are not bored, and in fact enthusiatically sing along with the chazzan, or listen attentively to every word of chazaras hashatz and krias hatora because they appreciate what it means to be in shul.

INCREASE THE SHLEPPING IN THE SHUL!
I can’t believe it.. Instead of blaming everyone else, why don’t we try to really understand the basics. I’m not talking about chasidim harishonim that took 1 hour to prepare for davening, and 1 hour after, nobody is on that madrega obviously. But we do have to strive to improve our davening just like we need to improve our learning and middos. But even without that, what about basic mentshlechkeit. I daven in a minyan that goes for at least 3 hours on shabbos and nobody out of 200+people complain that it’s too slow and almost nobody talks during davening.
For all you out there who feel davening is what you must do, so then a shul is just a place to be yotzi Zain, where you come and check off that you davened, well guess what, you didn’t. You just came and speed-red the words and left. No wonder you try to shave off time from davening. Instead of complaining like, get a sefer that explains davening and learn it when you’re waiting for everyone else to finish.

The way I see it, there are two types of people who talk in shul:

1) There are the people who will talk in shul no matter what. They don’t take davening seriously, they aren’t really interested in davening, they come to shul because of social pressure or some other reason. The issues brought up by the OP have nothing to do with this type of person – they will keep talking no matter what.

2) There are people who generally don’t talk in shul, and take davening seriously, and come to shul in order to daven. However, when certain parts of the “davening” (e.g. mi shebeirachs) are dragged out, these people feel that they are basically expected to sit there and do nothing, and therefore they turn to talking during those times (Of course they can do other productive things like learn during those times, but I think most people prefer to daven during davening and learn during their learning seder). For this type of person, cutting down on the “shlepping” very well may reduce the talking.

They are all excuses. a grown person should be able to keep his mouth shut for the three minutes it takes to make a mi-shebeirach in between aliyos.

If someone is not giving his full attention to the davening, doesn’t that mean that he doesn’t really believe that Hashem is watching and listening? Maybe that’s the key to solving this problem.

I used to talk during davvening, but stopped.

I now come late and davveing is 2 hours for me, with some of it catching up. I have no time to talk.

In shamayim, if they ask why I came late to davvening, I will answer them that I followed Halacha where it says it is better to stay home than talk in shul. Shulchan Aruch Siman 124:7

Davening is not in Hebrew, it is לשון קודש. Most people who learned a Yeshiva or Beis Yaakov know more than enough to understand the words. In addition many also teach peirush of davening. I know that mine and my children’s did.

There are many readily available siddurim with translations in manor languages for those who do not understand לשון הקודש well enough.

More important than just understanding the words is meaning what one davens.

Not understanding the words is often not the real reason why those who talk by davening do so. Most often it is Attitude. The same attitude which may be the reason why they do not know what they are saying. Even when they should know what the word mean.

Nisht, believe what you want and use any euphemism that makes you happy but it’s Hebrew.

DAAS: I couldn’t find a halacha on coming on-time to shul so I doubt they would ask that.
Even if they do, my ahavas yisroel of not wanting to disturb other Jews from davvening will trump my selfishness of coming on-time and talking.

I’m not worried 🙂

lesschumras,

Nisht, believe what you want and use any euphemism that makes you happy but it’s Hebrew.

By kaddish, berich shmei demarei alema, and yekum purkan on Shabbos I disagree. But for most everything else, yes, Hebrew 🙂

awarenessvaad,

Um…. what?

Without debating the merits of going into a church, it is my experience that goyim generally tend to be considerably more respectful (in terms of not engaging in any chatter) during their services….there have even been postings here about conservative/reform not speaking so much but again, that will drag us into a debate if that’s the same (or worse) than going into a church.

zahavasdad,

Most people talk in shul because they are bored. For whatever they are bored in shul. Have you ever seen someone stop to talk when they are doing something they find exciting

You may be partly right about this; however, is the problem with the davening itself, or with the bored people? Your initial post seemed to point a finger at the davening due to a language barrier, but, as nishtdayngesheft pointed out, one can use a translation, or work to improve their skills. One can also add his own thoughts and personal tefillos to the davening to make it more personal and less rote. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

But all of that is really beside the point. One can be bored and yet still realize that davening is important and that it is assur to talk and disturb others. So really, talking in shul goes beyond boredom and reflects a lack of respect.

The Language is part of the boredom and the translation is really useless (Try reading it and see if it makes sense)

Of course where there is a will, there is a way, but mussor really wont solve the problem here (I have no solutions..Only pointing out where the problem is) For whatever reason it tends to fall on deaf ears

I have heard from Rabbanim that speeding up the davening does cut down on the talking so OP has backing when he posts that.

Joseph,

Christians and Conservative/Reform go to their Church or Temple once a week, if even that. Jews go three times a day. So to compare, is to miss the mark.

That may be, but I think it has more to do with the structure and purpose of the respective services. Christian and Reform services are akin to performances – there is instrumental music, theatrical sermons, etc. and the congregants are largely a passive audience. The central aspect of Orthodox Jewish services, on the other hand, is tefilla, which is personal, and congregants must be active to fulfill their obligations.

Sure, less talking can be accomplished in 2 hours than 3

There you go, a simple mathematical explanation.

zahavasdad,

Not every problem has a solution

Cluck cluck cluck cluck bwaaaaaaaak! I’m referring to a hypothetical where there is a solution. Which would you choose?

Reform/Conservative did exactly as you suggested, ZD.

I think aish and ncsy do some kind education alternatives Some times. There are shuls who do more singing too. As far as out education goes there is not much time spent on tiffilah, connecting to Hashem.