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“i am insulted”
Don’t be. The fact that we are giving you the answers we are giving you (serious ones and funny ones) should tell you that we are taking this very seriously.
Denim skirts, on the other hand….
“its about where you started…. and where you are now.”
That’s what this is about? Join the club! Let me share a secret with you:
You are NEVER done climbing that ladder. Not you, not me, not anyone. We can (and should) always strive to reach beyond what we achieved last time.
(Sorry, from your OP, I did not see this as where you were coming from)
As far as finishing the sentence….
Agreed. See you in 20 years.
Ms. Ado…, do not worry so much. What you did was not such a huge aveira. Certainly, nothing to despair about. Just continue on the right path!
What is this?
adorable: I read this thread for the first time now with tears in my eyes. I know exactly what you mean. I’m the type to beat myself up over and over again. I used to lay in bed wide awake, my heart thumping, my palms sweating and my mind racing with thoughts like, “did I REALLY do that? There’s no turning back now. It’s over. You’re a gonner.” Oh, those times were terrible.
Now, I learnt to deal with it right. (I’m a bit shaky while writing about it, but I think that’s okay..) I STILL want to feel REMORSEFUL. But I DON’T want to feel GUILTY. I daven everyday by “selach lanu” that Hashem should forgive me. I still feel terrible, but I learnt to move on and focus on the future and the present instead of crying over the past.
Much hatzlacha.
adorable:
Firstly understand that you are completely normal. There is a reason doing Teshuva exists, if no one would need it, what would be the point?
I once heard (I have no idea where) a very nice concept. Every person has a rope connecting them to Hashem. Every time a person sins, the rope breaks a little until eventually it breaks. When a person does Teshuva, the rope gets knotted. When a rope is knotted, its shorter than the original length.
(I hope this is making sense.)
adorable (and for “trying to decide”)- to answer you here and about your comment on forgetting about your pain on the other thread:
i know many people who have used their “failings” to help others. i know a girl who almost went OTD, and now helps many, many girls living on the fringe regain their lives back, get married, etc. the book, “just one jew” – the author went completely off and now, after many years of trying and doing everything out there, he is bringing tons of people back. often, because of what one did, they are able to use their remembrance of the pain and understanding of what caused them to do what they did to truly help others.
i agree with bpt – i think you’ll be great in 20 years and will see that everything you have gone through is for your best and actually will help you grow more in the future and help others grow. you can do it!
What I don’t understand is this mentality is you see/look at something inappropiate, then you are unpure (Timtum Halev). Every Aveira causes Timtum, not just your eyes. So think about it -next time you speak LH, do something not nice, you have a little more Timtum. Some people won’t look at anything that could bring to Timtum like they will only read very frum newspapers and they won’t eat anything except the best Hechshers, but when it comes to things like LH, they can’t stop. It’s very nice what they do about eyes and eating, but a lot of them have bigger Timtum than those who aren’t so Makpid on those type of things. My point is -don’t fool yourself that you are better or worse than anyone else -we all have areas we need to work on!
Ado…, while one is not allowed to look at/read inappropriate material, somebody messed you up with certain farfrumed hashkofos which do not reflect the true Da’as Torah — all this emphasis on having “innocence”.
Adorable – I agree with mdd. I don’t know what you mean by innocence. I thought it meant you did some sort of aveira. But my post was to tell you and everyone -in life everyone does aveiros. A person should never give up -we can always do teshuva. One person isn’t better than the next one -we all have things to work on!
Adorable – It’s all part of growing up. Everyone is always learning new things & sometimes we aren’t so “innocent” anymore. Sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes it’s bad.
how can not being innocent be a good thing? i understand that the growth that you got from it could be good but how can that specific aspect be viewed as something good that happened to you?
I don’t think “innocence” is a Jewish concept. There are two types of tzaddikim: A tzaddik gamor and a ba’al teshuvah. A tzaddik gamor isn’t poiretz gedarim and oiver aveiros and a ba’al teshuvah is. Both have ma’alos and chesronos.
Don’t romanticize the problem as “losing your innocence”. Understand that you went from being a tzaddekes gemurah to a ba’alas teshuvah in one of the mitzvos or one of your middos. You lost certain ma’alos and you gained other ma’alos.
It’s on Hashem to decide whether He wants you to be an apple or an orange. He made His decision. Have bitachon that He made the right one.
Derech: Hashem made the decision that she should sin and do teshuva? That is what your comment seems to imply.
Adorable,
i read this thread and it brought back terrible memories. I too went through this ‘stage’ in my life after my sem year. At work i’d go onto sites that i never in my life would think i would ever go on. I read and saw such things that i knew i shouldnt. It killed me so often but i got addicted adn i couldnt stop. It came to a point where i just wanted to change but couldnt!
Finally, one day, over a year later, i said THATS IT! I must stop! And you know what, i really tried! i was able to stop for a couple of hours adn then i’d slip. a few minutes later i’d stop and i was ‘good’ the rest of teh day. This happened so often but eventually i stopped and i felt so much better…But i still wished i hadnt been exposed to all that ‘shmutz’!
I am now married, b”h and i feel that while it was a terrible thing that i did, its over and i can work on myself every day to be better than the day before.
Just try a little bit every day and you’ll get there…
pac-man
Derech: Hashem made the decision that she should sin and do teshuva? That is what your comment seems to imply.
I think it depends on how much of a part bechirah really plays in any given nisayon. Where the nekudas habechira for a person is.
I’ve been taught to look at the past like there was no bechira, everything that happened happened exactly as Hashem wanted. My part is only in the present. Meaning before a nisayon Hashem tests me to see if I will be oiver or not. If I failed then Hashem wanted me to be oiver to see if I will do teshuvah or let it slide.
adorable:
if I was put into this nisayon and failed but I really think that it was too big of a nisayon for me so why is it my fault then that I failed?!!?!?
We can’t know whether any nisayon is too big for us or not. Hashem gives each one of them to us for reasons only He knows. Our job is to live in the present.
It’s assur to become depressed even when doing teshuvah. I’ve seen in brought down that real teshuvah that was done b’shviras halev, if it leads to depression and not happiness then it wasn’t a good teshuvah.
Whether the nisayon that you failed was your fault or not, your job is to be choizer and to put gedarim in place that it shouldn’t happen again. After that you should be happy that you were given the opportunity to perform the mitzvah of teshuvah that you would not have been able to perform before.
Everything that we are at this moment is exactly what Hashem wants us to be in order to test us for the next moment.
Adorable;i dont have time to read all the posts so i hope i’m not being repetitive. but i’d like to say something. when you make a decision to go on the right path Hashem helps you and it does change you! this actually happens even if you don’t plaN IT OR DON’T EVEN KNOW IT WILL HAPPEN/ AN EXAMPLE. I USED TO LISTEN TO MUSIC WHICH was inappropriate. i loved the melodies but when i listened to the words. oy gevalt. so i made a decision to stop.i even discussed it with some poeple before rosh hashanna. i decided i just wouldn’t do it. i also stopped looking at certain pictures or videos. i had no idea that this would actually change me but it did. the change is very marked. before if i saw an immodest ad in a newspaper or magazine , it would register as , an ad. now it actually disturbs me with its immodesty. this just happened and i can only explain it as when i decided to behave in a more modest way, when i so to speak did teshuva for the previous behavior, Hashem actually changed soemthing in me so that what before seemed innoccuous to me , now as a result of my distancing myself from it became repugnant. this is one of the ways we are taught to do teshuva. if something has become a habit, first rid yourself of the habit. then the rest will follow. study Hilchot teshuva and you will see what they say. i was very pleasantly surprised and amased to see that this change had taken place. at first i felt i was giving something up that i really enjoed because it wasn’t “kosheR”. but as a result i not only lost the desire for it but feel i have reached a higher level. i am a woman if that makes any difference. so what i’m saying is , i don’t know about getting your innocence back, but you can attain a greater type of kedusha by turning to the right path. as far as your name. well rabbi akiva and resh lakish are examlples of that. what oyou truly aRE BELIEVE AND DESIRE WILL BECOME VISIBLE TO OTHERS. IT WILL SHINE THRoUGH. MUCH HATSLACHA.
Derech HaMelech, your thing with bechira does not sound right at all!!
Ado…, are people who are or have been married not innocent? The way somebody taught you to understand innocence, is Christian, not Jewish. They think, it is better not to get married at all, for example. If a person is aware of certain ta’avos or even has them does not make that person bad. Again, one is not allowed to read/look at inappropriate material, though.
There are a few definitions for the word “Innocence”. One is “A freedom from guilt or sin through being unacquainted with evil”. According to this definition, it is possible to have innocence even after guilt or sin as long as you are longer acquainted with them.
Another definition is “A lack of knowledge”. According to this definition, once you know something in a certain area that you were before unfamiliar with, you are no longer “innocent” in that area. However, I find it difficult to establish the second definition in a Jewish light.
Adorable, I indeed did not fully understand your post. I simply do not see a connection between innocence and learning things from the “right” sources. Perhaps you can explain it a little more clearly? Thanks.
About the first definition I gave, I think it means that even if you once were familiar with and pursued “evil” or sin, it is still possible to reach a level of innocence through ridding yourself of your familiarity and connection with them. If you no longer feel a connection to the sin, you have gained innocence.
Ado…, some of the so-called right hashkofoa are actually farfrumed ones. Even if I accepted what you wrote about the right hashkofos and right sources as is, still, this is not something to lose sleep over. The main problem was that you did something which you knew was wrong when you did it. This is something to do teshuva on. But do not get depressed please! Hatslocha!
don’t worry, you haven’t completely lost your innocence. If you had, you would know better than to use the expression “lost my purity” which has pretty clear connotations that I don’t believe you were referring to.
What I meant was that some “right hashkofos” are way too machmir. Again, one is not allowed to look at inappropriat things. As far as learning it only “when it’s time to get married” goes, who said? And even if yes, this is not something to lose sleep over. If you should be upset about something, it is the fact that you knowingly did something wrong, not the worries about knowing about things.
IMHO, the reason one feels “pure” while in school is not just because you haven’t done anything wrong yet, but rather because your neshama is constantly being “cleaned” with the continual input of Torah and Hashkofa. This immersion in Torah and Hashkafa is what keeps you feeling pure. But once you leave school this input is stopped, and things go downhill from there. (As the Baalei Machshavah tell us, a person is never standing still; they are either growing or falling.)
Therefore, the logical way to gain back this sense of purity is to re-immerse oneself in Torah and Hashkafa.
(On a practical note, I highly recommend the sefer “In Their Shadow”, a collection of truly inspiring Gedolim stories that show Hashkafa in action. After spending just a few minutes reading these stories, I can literally feel the difference… it really helps add that spiritual sense to my day.)
mdd:
“some of the so-called right hashkofoa are actually farfrumed ones. Even if I accepted what you wrote about the right hashkofos and right sources as is, still, this is not something to lose sleep over.”
This statement is a perfect example of what adorable was referring to (wrong hashkofos on the internet)… Losing one’s correct hashkofos is most definitely something to lose sleep over.
mw13, I am not sure what you mean.
mw13, since 2+2=5, then 3+3=15? Right? You base your arguments on different not-poshute foundations,which themselves need to be proven first.
congrats adorable keep up the good work!
You’re very welcome.
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