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ujm, you still haven’t explained why in the battleground states that went to Biden, most of the statewide voting went in favor of republicans. That as well as the house gaining republican seats and retaining it’s repubican reps. There’s only one explanation, republicans turned on Trump. They didn’t turn on their party.
Your primary accusation about the poll watchers in PA was debunked the next day by Trumps own attorneys and reporters on Fox News. Just do a quick google search. I don’t need to explain.“Any state legislature has the constitutional authority to directly award their state electoral votes, even now after the election, to any candidate of their choosing.”
While you may be correct do you really think that its a good idea. Trump can yell all he wants about voter fraud, stolen election, etc, but at some point he needs to give proof. And I’m talking about actual proof. I’m all for allowing him to sue anyone or State he wants and allowing the system play out (as seriously unlikely as it is that anything will change)
All Trump is accomplishing now is turning off Georgia voters who, in January, will decide if the Senate remains in Republicans hands and allow them to curtail some of Biden’s plans. The party leaders need to stand up to Trump and say if you have evidence lay it out on the table. Put up or shut up.What stupidity is this. If the state legislatures were to act illegally and send electors against the results of the vote the whole thing would get caught up in congress and there would not end up being a president certified, meaning that Pelosi would be acting president until it is figured out (And no, the supreme court does not get to decide who is president when this is in congress). Bottom line, Mark Levin is a moron and anyone repeating his drivel is probably a step below him.
As an aside, you and others are making all these allegations about fraud, but did you consider that the republicans might have been the ones committing the fraud? When you have people talking about engaging in illegal acts and possibly committing treason, why would anyone put it past the republicans to commit fraud as well. Even with the likely fraud committed by bitter Trump supporters itching for civil war, Trump still lost.
Get over it, Biden won and did so with the largest number of votes ever.
That said a greater percent of voters turned out for Rutherford v Tilden, which at least hopefully tells us we are not at the brink of committing murder of fellow Americans again (as they were near at that point). The one similarity, is that the disputes back then revolved around reconstruction and various issues related to blacks, and guess what, BLM seems to be a central focus of Trump supporters.
UJM how states manage elections and the allocation of their ECs is a matter of established states rights. As I’ve previously stated there are only 2 states that can allocate based on districts. These standards are established in the event a state wants to discount the votes of the people. If litigated it would be unsuccessful. Naturally if the issued isn’t settled by the date certain, I’m sure you would be very unhappy with Nancy Pelosi running the country.
There is another potentially unsuccessful lawsuit to be filed in NV today. It is a request to stop the vote count because signatures are not being matched to voter registration records. Nevada doesn’t require signatures or signature matching. Another waste of time and money.
You really are grasping at straws and doing little to understand the voting processes established by the states.
“this whole thing could get caught up in congress and there would not end up being a president certified, meaning that Pelosi would be acting president until it is figured out”
And whats wrong with that??
” They passed these laws unilaterally, in most cases bypassing the legislative route…”
Your IGNORANCE is showing (and is disgusting.
All these states have BIcameral legislatures. Laws can’t be passed unilaterally.
Laws are enacted in the LEGISLATURE. They can’t bypass the legislative route.I’ll refer to your post as ignorant, not full of LIES , which it is.
Executive Orders, Policy Decisions and procedures by officials such as Secretaries of State (not Federal), Town Clerks, County Election officials, Registrars of Voters, etc. are NOT laws.I don’t hide my bona fides: BS, MBA, JD, member of the Bar in MA, CT, NY, and FL, Asst. Registrar of Voters in my town.
What are your bona fides?Did not say anything was wrong with Pelosi being acting president, but practically speaking it would be disruptive and further if it came to that we might be risking a further constitutional crisis and possibly an attempted coup by the other side. The best thing is that, like we have done in this country, numerous times, have a peaceful transition of power to Biden, who won the election. These claims of fraud were being made before, during, and right after the election. They were also made last election, which mind you, Trump won. Trump is pushing this country to the brink and the sad thing is so many are happy to have a demagogue that they think they agree with. Time for people to move on and admit, what they know, namely, that there is no valid reason to doubt the results of this election and Biden is the president-elect.
Emes: I was obviously being somewhat irreverent with my “whats wrong with Nancy as “acting president” comment given the heartburn the though of Joe moving into the oval office seems to be causing our Repubican friends.
Another important question: WHERE IS MIKE?? Now that we’ve found Hunter (he was on stage motzi shabbos for the Biden celebration in Wilmington), the search team has gone looking for VP Pence. He hasn’t been seen in public since election night and hasn’t been part of the “Stop the counting (except where I’m winning) Circus being orchestrated by the Trumpkopf and Guiliani). Most recent report is that he is hiding out at some luxury resort at a private island off the Florida coast with no internet access). Perhaps he is trying to retain a sliver of credibility for a 2024 primary run against Tucker Carlson and Don Jr.
however people will deny voter fraud, it will continue staring in the face.
I watched on election night how trump was leading everything, suddenly a pipe broke in georgia, Wisconsin said they have too much to count….. an hour later despite goergia supposedly halting their count-and numbers started turning towards biden’s favor, and1 even though they were supposed to give results that night, they didn’t BECAUSE IT TAKES SOME TIME TO CREATE MORE BALLOTS TO TURN THE TIDE TO BIDEN!
never mind none of the GOP watchers were allowed to view counting process in all these states, TRY TO THINK WHY THEY DON’T WANT ANYONE WATCHING- OF +COURSE THE WHOLE COUNTING PROCESS WAS ILLEGAL!
the whole reason they requisted extensions was that they could see how many ballots they need to create to fill the gap.
unless we fight this awful fraud we’ll start looking like russia or iranSince you are new here let me prepa=e you for what happens next. Here in the CR, if you say there has been voter fraud than you are a conspiracy theorist who blindly follows fox news. But if you say that there was absolutely no fraud and biden, who couldn’t scrape 10 people together for a rally, won by a landslide, than you have some sort of access to only true and honest reporting and won’t consider you may also be following news blindly. So expect verbal onslaught of trash and sharp objects. Similar to what they’re doing on the streets.
“So expect verbal onslaught of trash and sharp objects”
I was looking for some virtual tin foil hats with sharp points but I already exhausted my supply of party hats and groggers motzi shabbos in celebrating the geulah from Trump. Would a virtual spam of jpg files containing an autographed photo of the Donald with his buddy Kim Jong-un sharing a bowl of kimchee deter you from further promoting the votegate hoax? Here in the CR we are admonished not to use the types of “trash” more typically thrown by the Peleg demonstrators and their ilk.And there you go….
jcs -“unless we fight this awful fraud we’ll start looking like russia or iran”
You are Wrong, if it’s True, then We are much Worse than Russia, China, & Iran.
E/o knows who the leaders are there, including the people that live there, and they will remain in Power!
The USA was established to Not be controlled by Tyrannical England.
If a good Portion of these allegations are True, we have become the Worse Nation (maybe) in the World!!!UJM, aside from practical difficulties with your wonderful anti democratic idea — such as that no state legislature could even stomach it — it completely undermines trumps entire legal argument. If any state legislature is free to yank the duly appointed slate of electors under article two, then what difference does it make if any state had or didn’t have transparency, counted or didn’t count votes, kept vigilantes 20 feet vs 6 feet away, switched ballots, shredded ballots, handed out sharpies, depressed turnout or wants to count late arriving ballots. Why would any of this matter if the legislature in any state can after Election Day pick a new slate of electors. Of course the answer is that states have to follow their own election laws. So if Pennsylvania has already established the manner in which it appoints electors under article two, then it needs to follow through and cannot change the manner of appointment after Election Day. Mark levin gets paid to say dumb stuff. Very little of what he says is worth repeating.
jewish common sense, I so agree with you. Trump was up by 600,000 votes and there was a 2 hour break and the democrats went out and gathered seven hundred thousand fake votes that no one noticed. Even though there were cameras in the room, they were probably covered. It wasn’t because they first counted election day votes which was predominantly republican and then went to absentee and early voting which was predominantly democrat. That makes no sense at all.
There was only one state that claimed the issue with republican pollwatchers not seeing the voting. That was debunked that night. Do a google search. Oops, the entire internet is liberal. That won’t work.Literally saying there is fraud without sufficient evidence when a much more simpler explanation can explain why the vote went to Biden is a conspiracy theory. So rather than crying that boohoo you are being called conspiracy theorists, maybe just stop engaging in them. You are increasingly sounding unhinged.
The simple explanation, is that Democrats by a significant margin voted via mail-in-ballots and as they take more time to count (e.g. some States they could not be opened sooner. Also when they are opened it requires more steps. Some states, you have one person review the signature on the envelope and then another person opens the secrecy envelope. Then you need to unfold it so it can go through the machine and then it has to be fed through the machines. Voting in person is able to handle the votes live with everything being scanned by the voters themselves in many cases, meaning that there is very little work afterwards to count the votes) the results later on turned to Biden.
Instead you and others, keep on harping that there is some conspiracy. This is just crazy. Polling before the election had Biden with the lead and just in terms of the popular vote this is consistent with the last 7 out of 8 elections so why do you have such trouble imagining that Biden brought out the vote. Your minds are so filled with lies that you can’t tell if the lies even make sense anymore.
I think we should follow the lead of R’ Biden and give the Trumpies some “space” to gracefully rant and rave about the election being “stolen” and let the reality of their loss sink in without us (including moi’ ) rubbing it in . The traditional notion of multiple stages of grieving are applicable here so the denial, lashing out etc. are to be expected. Hopefully by Tu B’shvat we will all be one happy CR family virtually singing the Lipa Schmeltzer verson of Kumbayah.
Ujm- “If fraud is found and the courts nevertheless cannot rectify it, the legislatures have standing to act.”
That was a nice 180. You previously argued that they can ignore the election without any constraints, which as I said undermines trumps entire legal argument which presupposes that an accurate election is a meaningful process. Now you’re saying your anti democratic scheme should be available if there’s an actual finding of fraud (before confusingly going back to your first position). I guess your first order of business is to find the actual fraud sufficient to invalidate an election. Not a WhatsApp message or a Facebook post or a press conference in a random parking lot. Trumpies are making a lot of claims out of court, but their court filings are relatively modest. In fact, reports yesterday suggested that law firms that represent the trump campaign are not entirely comfortable with their role in all this.
I don’t know what the remedy is if an election is so tainted by fraud that it does not represent the will of the people. But absent such a finding, one can argue (correctly IMO) that article two says that electors shall be appointed in the manner directed by the state legislature. That’s been done. Allowing a legislature to direct the manner of appointment and then to ignore the results and redirect a new manner for no reason other than that they don’t like the first outcome, would be substantively the same as direct vote by state legislature which was deliberately not authorized by the constitution
The constitution actually says:
“Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors…”
If you read the rest of that section and the analysis of it, the underlying facts as to who is an elector has to be based on election day. The legislative would actually be in violation of the constitution if they got together and selected electors against the result of the vote.
There is also something called the Electoral Count Act (ECA), which basically means that you have to select electors according to the law that was in place prior to election day. There is a safe harbor in the law that as long as the electors are designated six days prior (on 12/8/2020) to the electoral college voting (on 12/14/2020) then congress will respect those electors if they follow the rules of the ECA.
Then there is the Supreme Courts decision in Chiafalo, which very clearly describes respecting the vote as a tradition that goes back over 200 years and to go against it would be a major violation of due process. There is simply no way the Supreme Court it it wants to remain legitimate rules otherwise. To do so, would be to end American Democracy.
Basically, there is no scenario under which this somehow falls to the legislatives and Trump ends up as President.
So you suggest this theory as to fraud. Well then you have an issue that the Supreme Court of the USA is not a trier of facts in such a dispute, so the question as to fraud is actually determined by the State courts and not the Supreme court. So the only way this gets to the supreme court is if you first find substantial fraud at the State court and you don’t like the ruling of the State court on the legal implications of that.
So if you think about this, you have a big task ahead of you if you want this to be overturned on fraud allegations as you would need to find substantive fraud before the State sends its electors to congress and be able to make it to state court . Without that you just have a legal question as to what happens if there was substantive fraud, which is irrelevant without the evidence of fraud in the first place.
By comparison with Bush v Gore there were no substantive issues that needed evidence, rather it was pretty much a strict legal question. The facts were not in dispute, rather the legal questions where in dispute. Accordingly going to court was a much faster process.
In any case, Bush v Gore met the ECA requirements and hence no potential issues afterwards, in this case, if fraud were somehow ruled to be so substantial as to call into question the election (mind you, it would likely require new elections for other offices in that state as the whole election would be tainted… not going to happen as too many republicans just won elections) then there is simply no way that the House of Representatives will accept republican electors electing Trump as the ECA requirements will not have been met…. So we get back to either Pelosi is acting President on Jan 20th or the House ends up selecting the President and the Senate the Vice-President. I would not be surprised if Biden agrees to step aside (due to his age as the democrats in congress will not want to risk having the President die and getting a Republican as president then) for the good of the party to allow Kamala to get the Presidency in that case.
TL,DR – You are wrong about what the legislatures can do. Bottom line, if Trump is successful in proving fraud (good luck with that) and undermining the election we either get Pelosi as acting president on Jan 20 or we have Kamala Harris as President with a republican vice-president. There is simply no legal scenario in which Trump wins this election.
You quoted me so I dont see how you missed what I said. The us constitution does not authorize state legislatures to vote for president. It authorizes them to create a process for the state to appoint electors who vote. Redoing the process at will a second time (or third or tenth) until you get electors that will vote exactly as the legislature wishes is for all intents and purposes the same as direct vote albeit more time consuming and convoluted.
Speaking of furthering ends by any means because you have the power to do so, I wonder what your thoughts were a week ago on court packing when it looked like Democrats would win the senate. I didn’t hear a single conservative say well, they’d have the power to do so, so why not.
@ujm – You are simply ignoring laws, constitutional amendments, due process, and supreme court decisions to conclude the most extreme possible interpretation that the legislatives can simply do this and it will work. If this were to happen the US would not longer be a democracy. You should expect civil war to follow in short order. All I know that we don’t come out well in such a scenario, so quit getting so excited about Trump usurping power.
“they know it is fully in line with the constitution and the Republicans control the levers of power to effect this maneuver, with the Democrats being helpless to stop it.”
Wrong. I just looked up the law. It is the *Governor* who certifies the electors, not the legislature. It takes separate votes of BOTH houses of Congress to reject the Governor’s certification. WI, MI, PA, and NV have Democratic Governors. Even if the Governors of GA and AZ wish to end their political careers by overturning a free and fair election, Biden still becomes President with 279 electoral votes. The Supreme Court has no role here.
Trump’s people are powerless to prevent Biden from becoming President on January 20, 2021.
You are being ridiculous.
Saying fraud without evidence of fraud will make any action by the legislature illegal. The Supreme Court, even with 3 Trump justices, will quickly rule that such an action is illegal. So, no, there cannot be civil war with claims of fraud that have no sufficient evidence as you will have Biden as President in such a case and he will invoke the insurrection act to put down anyone threatening violence against the US. You will not have States getting into such a fight rather some people who are nuts.
On the other hand, if there is some absurd series of events that has precedent and laws trampled all over, you will have the House and the Senate declaring differing people as President. The end result will risk having States pick sides and risking civil war. As to the insurrection act, you will have 2 different presidents who will invoke it, setting up a split in the US military as well.
All I can say, is that this talk of having legislatures decide is dangerous and people should stop talking about it and giving strength to it. The bloodthirsty nature of those who are so righteous that they would push this country to civil war is just disgusting and abominable.
Charlie/Emes: Its sad to watch the Trumpkopfs flailing around feeling helpless about the outcome. No benefit in trying to engage in a rational argument with someone going through the sequential stages of grieving. I’m reasonably confident it will resolve itself within the next week or 10 days as the initial court decisions reject this novel theory of shoot first aim later. Trial courts generally assume that plaintiffs bring their cases AFTER having established material evidence of fraud or other violation of statute rather than throwing up a lot of heresay and anecdotal assertions and saying its the business of the courts, media, etc. to drill down on those vague allegations.
ENS -“If the state legislatures were to act illegally and send electors against the results of the vote”
You’re right!
I found it Very Amusing that all you Libs had to Comment on Coleman’s Video!
What are you afraid of?
You’re scared because your Idol might not be the Next Pres.
In the end Trump will win PA, MI, Georgia & maybe WI and AZ.
What will you libs do then, besides CRY?!?Personally, with his great legal mind vis a vis constitutional law, I wonder why UJM isn’t part of the legal staff of the president.
So the Pennsylvania postal worker in Erie who signed the affidavit that Crazy Rudy ranted about at his new conference claiming that the postal supervisor ordered backdating of Biden ballots recanted his allegations when questioned today by government investigators. Not clear if he has mental health problems or was simply trying to gain attention. Also, the head of the HHS Office responsible for monitoring computer hacking and security said the the rumors spread by some of the Trumkopfs about software used in many state elections automatically switching votes from Trump to Biden was a “hoax” and had no validity. ‘
I suspect we will have to wait for another week or so before the Repubicans simply run out of conspiracy theories. Tonight, a state legislator in Michigan is claiming that one vote counter was “eating” ballots when the poll watchers were taking a break so as to hide any evidence. Stay tuned!Fox news reports that the sitting presidents campaign requests that the Georgia recount be done by hand. How realistic is that? It’s almost as if they want Pelosi as president.
GH -“So the Pennsylvania postal worker in Erie who signed the affidavit that Crazy Rudy ranted about at his new conference claiming that the postal supervisor ordered backdating of Biden ballots recanted his allegations when questioned today by government investigators”
Yes, it’s all over the News.
Even in the Washington Post. But at the end of the Article it says he made a You Tube video denying that he Recanted.
He says G investigators had him sign something that he didn’t know what it was.
This country is Now Officially a Banana Republic.
The Deep State is Getting worse by the Minute!gadolha, tell me that one about eating ballots is a joke. Please. I can’t stop laughing.
Everyone forgets that it’s like a casino, it has cameras all throughout the room.
“They’ve been doing it with observation, the press is here to watch it, there’s cameras everywhere. So this is a very, very transparent process,” Fitzgerald (Allegheny County Executive) had said. Honestly, it’s the red necks and a good portion of frum Jews that seem to go for this nonsense. People don’t realize that Fox News is just like the rest of the media, they create stories so they can jack up interest and keep people watching. It’s fake news just the same.
People eating ballots. I love it.Health: At least Banana Republics have some minimum standards with respect to how stupid their claims can be. When you have Crazy Rudy running the circus, there are no standards. So you now claim based on uTube that this postal worker who first signed the weirdest affidavit in legal history (clearly drafted by a graduate of an elite online law school) claiming the manager of the Erie Pennsylvania post office ordered him and dozens of other postal workers to “backdate” ballots to make them appear they arrived on time. He was the only postal worker with the courage to come forward and tell the truth but then Jim Comey showed up with a bunch of FBI agents and ANTIFA hoods and made him recant his allegations. Sounds totally reasonable to me.
Slim…..and eating them without first saying a ‘mazonos’ or anything…clear violation of Pennsylvania statutes and the special set of sheva miztvos applicable to goiyehse election workers.
Sadly, in several of these states, it will be a few days before the first procedural hearings where the presiding judge or magistrate will grant motion for summary dismissal. While popular votes don’t count, someone needs to remind the Trumpkopf that he there is a 5 million vote losing margin, in addition to about 50 or 60 electoral votes.GH -“He was the only postal worker with the courage to come forward and tell the truth but then Jim Comey showed up with a bunch of FBI agents and ANTIFA hoods and made him recant his allegations. Sounds totally reasonable to me.”
When I wrote my post – It was before I found his video!
I actually found the Video on You Tube last night.
You Jewish Libs should be very Worried because half the Country will never stand for our Rights being Taken Away!
Go look at his Video. He is holding his Smart Phone and reading the WP Article.
He says – “I never Recanted my Statement”.Anyways it was Some Postal Inspectors that Interviewed him.
My Question to You & all Libs – Why would the Washington Post Write such a False Story?!?
Why make this up?!?
What are they hiding – if it was a Fair & Legal Election?!?Project Veritas claims to have a wiretap on the guy when he met with the postal investigators. For some reason they released a few seconds that tells you nothing… Let Project Veritas release the full audio of what they have. What are they hiding? Let me guess, it is Richard Hopkins on tape recanting his allegations. Then he goes and makes a video later on saying he did not recant. This is simply ridiculous and no reason anyone should believe him. Project Veritas, an organization dedicate to perpetuating a fraud, is welcome to release what evidence they have, so far they have not. Seems like they have something to hide. Guess it is much easier to make up fake claims and say you have the evidence then to actually put it out there.
ENS -“For some reason they released a few seconds that tells you nothing… Let Project Veritas release the full audio of what they have”
First of all, how do you know how much they have?
2nd, if they do have more – maybe it’s Illegal to release it?The video that I saw last night – the guy said he Never Recanted!
Why would guy say that if a few hours earlier he just did?
Even if there isn’t a recording of the meeting, no one is that Stupid to post such a video, if it will come out differently.
BTW, Not one US Media covered this Denial, just Australia.
This is Deep State!!!So now evidence supporting your messiah is illegal to show.
Let me know the results into the last voter fraud investigation Trump launched.
Or the investigation into unmasking.
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