Jews And Starbucks

In Los Angeles they have a Starbucks like chain called “Coffee Bean and Tea”. Every store we were in (this is going back 4-5 years) had a hechsher, don’t remember which, but do remember from my pre-trip planning, that it was widely accepted in LA. Not only were ALL the coffees kosher, but so was everything that was sold in the store – sandwiches, muffins, etc. After I came back to NY, I sent them an email complimenting them – as the stores were also very pleasant to sit in. Unfortunately, whoever the owner(s) are, didn’t have the big bucks it would take to open a franchise in NYC. This is their kashrut info from their website http://coffeebean.com/Keeping-Kosher-W249C125.aspx.

There is no problem buying a coffee in McDonalds. I heard that straight from a very prominent Rav.

Here’s a funny story: I was once driving from Canada to Brooklyn overnight. At one point, I stopped at a rest area, and wanted a coffee to help me stay awake. It was about 2 am, and the McDonald’s at the rest stop was the only thing open. I went to the counter and asked for a plain black coffee. The guy behind the register looked at me, looked at my kippah, and said, “I thought Jews aren’t supposed to eat at McDonald’s? We’re not kosher!”

I explained that plain coffee was fine, and he was glad to learn something new.

If one puts cold milk into a steel pitcher which was washed in a dishwasher with treifus, one is allowed to drink the milk since the milk is not stored in the container for 24 hours. Also, there was probably soap in the dishwasher. (We seem to rely on soap, despite that the shach and taz don’t like this heter.)

Now, since the trays were rinsed, and there is no reason to think they are ever used for hot food, then even if the above was not true, the milk in the pitchers would still be muttar.

frumlady:

Why would you say that? Has any Rov told you it is assur? This entire thread is just a bunch of boich svaros; why are you accusing people of eating treif based on that?

frum lady:

I understood your point precisely, and that is what I am criticizing. You have no basis beyond speculation for your “issur”, and based on your speculation, you accuse huge numbers of fine Jews of eating treif and justifying it because they simply “want it”.

As far as your cut up fruit, you do need to ask. It is not very simple that you cannot. I am working with the assumption that the knife was cleaned before being used for fruit, in which case the worst you would need is to wash the fruit (or depending on the fruit, perhaps cut off a klipa). If we then use the rule of “stam keilim einum bnei yoman”, we can say that you don’t even need to wash them.

As regards “my reasoning”, I have reasoned nothing except that one should not rely on boich svaros to malign other Jews.

A Rav told us that in a greengrocer, the cut up melon is not a problem, because a green grocer only sells fruits and veggies, not ham sandwiches. He also says that goyim are very particular about what knives they use, and they wouldn’t use the same knife they slice meat with to cut produce. I’d find it hard to believe that no one who’s cried “ussar” in this thread hasn’t ever bought a cut up watermelon in a grocery store.

I’d find it hard to believe that no one who’s cried “ussar” in this thread hasn’t ever bought a cut up watermelon in a grocery store.

i guess you feel that way because of the circles of people you find yourself in

im not even one of those “crying ussar” but i would not buy cut up watermelon from a grocery store, nor would any of my friends. there is certainly room to say its mutar but i would absolutely not eat such a thing.

frumladygit:

Bottom line is don’t look down upon us who drink Starbucks coffee when we were told it’s completely muttar. If you don’t want to drink it, fine. Just keep your holier than thou attitude away from it.

This thread is really fascinating and revealing. seems to be unique among all other threads here of this sort.

the generally more machmir crowd is taking the side of Mutar here.

the generally more makil crowd is taking the side of Assur

Mod80, I’m fairly consistent. Unless you think I’m generally machmir?

OOC, would you buy frozen vegetables without a hechsher? I’m talking about vegetables that don’t require a hechsher. Not broccoli or anything like that.

We generally don’t buy fresh cut up fruits or vegetables either.

“much like my opinion on the Flatbush Eruv.”

Accept that all the gedolim have said that the socalled eruv is mamash passul. So why do you use it and be mechalel shabbas?

Just to clarify, I’m referring to, for example, going to Pathmark/Waldbaums/Shoprite – you know, your standard regular grocery store, and buying a half a watermelon. I wasn’t talking about fruit salad type cut up.

Mod, I’m confused where I fit in your concept that “the generally more machmir crowd is taking the side of Mutar here.

the generally more makil crowd is taking the side of Assur”. But that’s OK, the Rav referred to is a Posek who gets calls from around the world, and studied halacha under Rav Elyashiv shlita.

It’s the old story, told on YWN and elsewhere that it often takes more knowledge to know what’s muttar then what’s assur.

Aries I like what you wrote. But I just have one question. These kashrus organizations like OU also put hechshierim on products that are not necessarily bishul or pas Israel. For example, potatoe chips, breakfast cereals, granola bars.

On what do they base this? It says clearly in the SHulcan Aruch its a major averiah to eat these things if they are not bishul.

Like I said before, the fact is people DONT want to know. And the people who want to know – know it already.

frumladygit, if you have a question on kashrus you should direct it to a kashrus organization they have websites as well as phone numbers. It is totally inappropriate to direct it to a blog!

popabar I did not slander people. I think you may have an insecurity complex issue, based on how you receive/perceive my statements when it comes to issues close to your heart, or coffee cup. However your problem is not within the context of this thread for me to address here, so I will just say that it is a fact that foods which cannot be eaten before cooked such as the above mentioned examples need to be cooked by a Jew. That is in the Shulcan Aruch.

Now as for your accusation that I am slandering rabbonim, I did not use anyones name. So it is impossible to have.

Futhermore, I do not even know the name of which Rav you people such as SYSinNYC or dunno claim to have gotten a “mutter” from. THere are many different kinds of “rabbis” who “hold” differently. THerefore you see OU saying that breakfast cereals do not have to be pas israel.

WHen someone like myself holds differently that is not slandering another person.

Aries2756 if it is the case that discussing Starbucks and kashrus questions on blogs is inappropriate why haven’t you or anyone else pointed this out when the OT first opened this thread?

The OT mentions many things in his initial post. Such as what is your opinion as to the establishment holding breakfast sandwiches that are vadai tarfus.

He mentions many “shailas”, however it was only a discussion until I pointed out the many issues as I shared my firsthand “inside” information from past employment experience in such an food and drink place. THat was when I was accused of slandering Rabbonim and having a holier than thou attitude above the coffee drinkers.

By the way, not one person has been able to properly address the question as to where ‘they’ rely on certain things do not need be produced bishul/pas israel. Just a bunch of bashing.

popabar I did not slander people.

the fact is people DONT want to know

I have nothing to add.

Now as for your accusation that I am slandering rabbonim, I did not use anyones name.

These kashrus organizations like OU also put hechshierim on products that are not necessarily bishul or pas Israel….It says clearly in the SHulcan Aruch its a major averiah to eat these things if they are not bishul.

I have nothing to add.

so I will just say that it is a fact that foods which cannot be eaten before cooked such as the above mentioned examples need to be cooked by a Jew.

Incorrect. If they are not eaten raw, and are also served on royal tables. YD 113:1

OK so IF …if…if I have been wrong and unintentionally offended any members, relatives, wives, shareholders or rabbis of the OU Kashrus organization I sincerely and humbly apologize as my only intention was to argue with popabaraba.

I would not otherwise be able to fall asleep with a clear conscience. But you still wont catch me drinking a Starbucks ok?

frumladygit:

I am very close with and supporter of Lubavitch in Illinois. I respect your fierce adherence to Bishul Yisroel. However, the OU can certainly be relied upon. Coffee is one such example.

From OU website:

A. Five reasons why a food might be exempt from bishul akum (non-Jewish cooking) regardless of how it is cooked.

Edible raw: Foods which are edible raw are excluded from the prohibition of bishul akum. Foods which people would eat raw but are always pasteurized for safety, are considered edible raw.

[The OU certifies pat paltar (non-Jewish baker’s bread) as Kosher]. No arrangement required by the (but food may otherwise be subject to bishul akum)

If you need more clarity look at Chabad.org:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/947606/jewish/Laws-of-Bishul-Yisrael.htm

Just FTR, Bishul Yisrael and Pas Yisrael are not in the same boat.

One is a requirement (which of course has parameters) and one is a chumra that was until recently not accepted by the vast majority of Jews.

frumladygit, thanks agreed, but I don’t go into starbucks because they boycott Israel so it has nothing to do with Kashrus. I might go into Dunkin Donuts on occasion though. I don’t drink much coffee these days.

I saw this thread and I thought you might be interested in this article called:

“What’s Really Kosher at Starbucks?”

http://www.communitym.com/article.asp?article_id=100536

The author is makpid and did extensive research. Of course, she is not a posek, but the article merely opens your eyes so you realize what is questionable. She says don’t rely on her info too, but ask Rabbi….drinks for thought.

It’s a conspiracy aries; a conspiracy.

Helpful, you talkin ta me?????