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i notice that very few people stand in their place (till Kedusha)after finishing shmoneh esrei. Is it only a minhag? Chumrah?
Some Briskers hold that the chazarat hashatz until after kedushah is a continuation of the private shmoneh esrei of the yachid, hence one should stand still till after kedushah.
I don’t recall the Shulchan Oruch or its’ commentaries mandating that one hold by the Briskers.
At a minimum, stand quietly and don’t use the time until the shaliach tzibur starts the chazaras hashatz to schmooze with your chevrah. Its not only disrepectful to the Ebeshter, but it really obnoxious behavior and disruptive to those around you who are still completing the shmoneh esreh.
rational: It’s possible that the briskers are machmir like the mechaber in OC 123:2 (also see the Rama)
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49623&st=&pgnum=286
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49623&st=&pgnum=287
I’ve seen Rabbonim in Lubavitch who stand still even after shmoneh esrei of maariv until the Chazan says d’amiran balmo in kadish. I’ll ask someone what the makor for it is.
Dor, the SA says (OC 124:6) that it is much worse. His sin is greater than he can bear and he should be told off. The MB (s”k 27) brings down that several shuls were destroyed because of this. The Tosofot Tom Tov blamed the Chmielnitzky massacres on it and wrote a special “mi sheberach” for those who do not talk. It is even forbidden to talk about Torah (Aruch haShulchan seif 12) or learn quietly (MB s”k 17). The Kaf haChaim says (s”k 37) that the shul police should give the talkers many punishments and embarrass them in public.
I would like to explain the Sevarah of the 2 Dayos in the Shulchan Aruch.
The Shulchan Aruch brings 2 Dayos 1. Till Kedusha 2. The shiur of 4 Amos.
The sevarah of the Shulchan Aruch is that you want to show HaShem that you are not moving away from HaShem until you absolutely have to go somewhere else.See the Yechaveh Daas from Rav Ovadya Yosef (5,11) who says to stay standing until Hakel Hakadash. See the RMA 124,4.
About standing by Kadish see Yechave Daas (3,4) the sefardim don’t stand up but if standing, stay standing until daamiron.
At a minimum one should wait in place after finishing their silent Shemona Esrei and stepping back 3 steps long enough to walk 4 Amos. Otherwise they appear like a dog returning to eat his own throwup. That’s the language in the Gemora.
Dear lowerourtuition
Thank you, I stand corrected.
I’ll add, though, that the MB reasons that it is disrespectful to take steps back and then run away, so to speak.
The Briskers hold that one stands through chazaras hashatz, as it is a continuation of the yachid’s SE.
Different reasoning, almost the same result.It seems like some people have adopted a strange custom of going for little walks back and forth when they finish Shemoneh Esrei ahead of everyone else. Some of the antics in the Synagogue seem amusing at best!
Baltimore Mayven: Thanks for sharing that tidbit with us…..just what we all needed to put us in the proper mood for Shabbos. I’ll be thinking about it during davening….
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