Spooky: FDA says no right to choose what you eat?

I’m a registered Republican. Not because I agree with everything they stand for (because I dont) but the main thing I agree with is Limited Government, once the Government starts interfering in our day to day lives the country is bound for hell in a handbag. The fundamental purpose of Government is the maintenance of basic security and public order. Most people are reasonable enough (and I say most because there are crazies out there) to submit themselves to some form of Government rather than complete Anarchy.

Once Government abuses their power and expands their role we run into problems, was this not the reason why we created this country in the first place?

Personally, I think this is all ridiculous – dont tell me what to eat, dont tell me who to love, dont tell me how to spend my money, dont tell me who to help out… There has to be a point where the Government is just the Government and they arent storming into our personal lives.

Raw (unpasteurized) milk is dangerous. There are other countries that ban it. Why a frum Jew would be arguing for the so-called right to do something that could amount to suicide is beyond me.

charlie

If you want to commit suicide why should the Government stop you?

You are free to abuse your body in any way you deem fit.

The reason why agree with cigarette ban is because there is proven data that second hand smoke effects other people. I dont care if you want to kill yourself, but dont kill me in the process.

This isn’t all that complicated an issue. Milk is a product sold through interstate commerce, and as such, the Constitution explicitly gives the government the right to regulate it. If you believe that the Constitution means nothing more than it says (and most people on this site do feel that way, I believe), that’s really the end of the story.

You can argue if you’d like that there’s some right not written in the Constitution to eat whatever you’d like, but then I’d expect you to be much more sympathetic to those who argue for similar freedom to engage in medical procedures or marital relationships without government interference.

In any event, it’s not surprising that the FDA is arguing against the creation of that right in this instance, since regardless of what you think about raw milk, a court deciding that people have the Constitutional right to eat whatever they want would effectively put the FDA out of business.

Charlie

Jews arent the only people that live in America so all these laws dont ONLY affect us as Jews, I am referring to Americans at large.

Yes, I do think we should make drugs legal, tax the hell out of them and make serious penalties for offenders. If you can manage the problem that is half the battle, we are LOSING the war on drugs usage is rampant if we legalize it we can eliminate drug related gangs & violence.

apushatayid,

Would you also argue that any smoker who arrives at the hospital emergency room having a heart attack should not be admitted, because, after all, smoking causes heart attacks?

I agree with apy.

If you are being supported by the Government then (and only then) can they tell you what to do.

If you are on Food Stamps, then they can tell you how to spend them, if you are on Medicare/Medicaid then they can set the parameters how you will qualify, etc… Thats is why its called a Government Program, if its their game you have to play by their rules.

But, if I dont want to play with them, why are they making my rules?!

This conversation has gone off the point of this case quite quickly.

The issue is not that the FDA is saying what one can eat and what one cannot eat. The issue is what the FDA allows to be SOLD. The issue here is that there are people who are angry that the FDA is preventing the sale of milk straight from the cow “as is”. They argue that their “right” to such milk is being taken away from them.

The FDA’s response is that a) they pasteurize the milk for good reason, and, b) availability of a specific food is not a right.

Laws are also specific to each state, but no state outlaws the DRINKING of such milk. Vermont, IIRC, allows it to be drunk only by the owners of the cows.

Using an extreme to put this into perspective. One can eat meat well past its sell date. One can also choose to eat rat meat. But the sale of rat meat and meat past its expiration date is what is forbidden.

Please look at the history behind non-pasteurized milk, swill milk, and deaths resulting from tainted milk pre-pasteurization prior to taking an anti-FDA side to this argument. They are truly protecting the public here, despite the whole-milk hippies objections.

Since the subject of cigarette smoking was raised, I have a few questions:

1. Since cigarette smoking is definitely bad for you, who decided that it is mutar to smoke?

2. Who gives the hashgacha on Marlboros?

3. For that matter, how are you allowed to smoke on Pesach when you have no idea what is in the cigarette?

I’m not seeing the issue…maybe its because im an idiot, but lets take the other side of the FDA, the drug part. if lets say a revolutionary painkiller was released by pfizer which worked in 5 minutes for 10 hours, and was the strongest most effective OTC pain reliever on the market, it’s only downside being that after 10 doses, no matter the intervals, you WILL go into cardiac arrest, would anyone here object to the FDA banning that drug? i didn’t think so.

as for unpasteurized milk, i see no problem with the FDA’s position on the matter. it poses a public hazard especially for those who would buy it as a novelty item not knowing the risks inherent in the product. someone above touted a number, 49 people who become ill from unpasteurized milk per annum, and 0 fatalities. how may people who do not own the cow or know the person who owns the cow personally are drinking that kind of milk? please cite that statistic.

i have had unpasteurized milk, and it is quite tasty, however i knew the farmer personally, and the milk was delivered to me the day it was extracted (or so i was told). i was told when it was delivered that i am not to keep it for more than 48 hours. after 48 hours i MUST discard it as it is dangerous to keep raw milk past that point. now i ask you, how cost effective would that product be? suppose stores kept the milk for longer, you run serious risks if you buy it. many people do not know the risks.

as such i believe that the FDA must ban the product for the benefit of those who do not know the risks associated with raw milk and would buy it anyway because of it’s novelty or supposed health benefits.

they are NOT banning the consumption of raw milk, merely the selling of raw milk. your rights are not being trampled on, fear not.

I dont mind them banning the sale of raw milk because we can still drink it if we wanted to by getting a cow.

What bothers me about FDA is that they will never review any natural cures (vitamins, herbs…etc) so are they really operating in our best interest? Or do they only care about the lobbyists from drug companies who pay them off?

2qwerty,

The FDA does not have the statutory authority to review vitamins or food supplements for efficacy and has limited power over their safety. It would take an Act of Congress to change that. I’d be very happy to require clinical trials for labeling of vitamins. However, many of the very same drug companies you criticize actually manufacture vitamins and other food supplements as well; their lobbying has actually PREVENTED the kind of oversight you are suggesting.

vnishmartemmeod,

The FDA is actually less intrusive today thanks to ill-considered pressure from the Republicans in Congress in the 1990s that made it easier to get drugs approved. As a result there have been some very high profile recalls of potentially dangerous drugs. This almost never happened back in the 1980s or before. The FDA is trying to do exactly what it is asked to do.

I know the raw milk issue isn’t the main point of this thread, but I need to weigh in on this one since no one else is.

We used to live in Pennsylvania where raw milk is legally licensed. Our family would drink a couple gallons a week.

Yes, I agree with all of you that pasteurization is vitally important for commercial farming. But for a family farm, where the cows are completely grass fed, have plenty of room to graze and the farmer can take care of each cow, these farms sell raw milk which, in my opinion, is extremely beneficial as it has all the probiotics and enzymes still alive just as Hashem made it. A healthy cow that is taken care of produces healthy milk. If a cow gets mastitis the farmer lets the cow heal… I’ve been there, milked the cows myself and know how a GOOD farm operates. These families are in jeopardy and regularly are threatened by the FDA if they think any milk is going to people out of state, whether it’s true or not.

The FDA is making it more impossible for small businesses and small farms to survive with these regulations. It’s only big business that is winning on this. No one is forcing anyone to buy raw milk, it’s expensive anyway at around $6/gallon! You’re only going to buy raw milk if you feel passionately about it and it’s going to come from small family farms.

Have you seen the types of farms where “regular” milk comes from? I lived next to them and did photography for these farms on occasion (brochure work for farm equipment)… THAT is the truly scary milk, which I would never drink. The conditions the cows live in are unthinkable. Chicken houses are the same way if not worse, but that’s another topic! 🙂

Sean – $6/gallon is about the same price as Kosher (Cholov Yisroel) Milk.

I once drank unpasteurized and non-homogenized milk a few minutes out of the cow. it was delicious.

(posted because I’d rather do this than what I’m supposed to be doing right now)

bombmaniac: Do you really believe that their intentions are pure, their actions untainted?

that is absolutely irrelevant.

vnishmartemmeod: you are blowing a very simple issue out of proportion.

@Ben Torah – Oh 🙂 I didn’t know, but that makes sense.

Can someone explain the difference in taste, and nutrients, between unpasteurized/non-homogenized milk and pasteurized/homogenized milk?

My municipality does not allow me to keep a cow on my property.