Spontaneous date?

What’s this about exactly? You testing him to see if he can come up with plans on the fly?

I dated a guy for 6 months. Maybe around month 4 and 1/2? LOL. (I’m serious BTW)

spontaneous dating seems weird and inappropriate to me.

oh spontaneous! why didn’t you say so. What about the guy?

Even though guys generally need MUCH less time to prepare

than the girl, still it depends on the sitch some guys might be annoyed at it, though as you said, suggesting is just that.

I’d say when your sure its going somewhere from both sides.

guy likes you, you like him, so will be happy to work w/ you.

but two hours notice? common! might be too little.

How would you feel getting 2 hrs notice?

Remember guy needs a shave, shower, has to find a place, maybe needs a reservation, driving in from work traffic etc. So be reasonable. Hatzlacha!

At least most mainstream yeshivisha guys need a shave.

I don’t think that that kind of casual hanging out is productive. If you need to discuss something, phone calls should be ok, and if you need more time or face time then set something up.

I don’t think it’s cool at any point, frankly. Do you have anyone IRL you’re close to, a rebbetzin, sem teacher, etc.? BTW, most “mainstream” yeshiva boys will be given pretty clear hadracha of how often it’s healthy to call or get together. These guidelines might seem annoying or restrictive, but trust me: I’ve been through it myself and shepherded some kids through it and ultimately, it’s a big bracha and the healthiest thing.

I don’t think that that kind of casual hanging out is productive. If you need to discuss something, phone calls should be ok, and if you need more time or face time then set something up.

I disagree. Married life is not about having serious hashkafa discussions. Most interaction with a spouse is just regular light interaction. I think it is important to find out if you enjoy one another’s company in the plain, day to day life, sense.

ie. If you like hanging out.

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Ok, this discussion is absurd since we obviously have different concepts of the purpose of dating, based on different social models. Any discussion which is not based on similar premises is pointless. (except a discussion of those premises, which would in turn be based on similar overarching premises.)

bein hasdorim – don’t worry about his financial situation ($$$$). Besides, we never did anything expensive.

I was dazzled by his good looks 😀

…. so was the other girl.

PBA, I was working within the OP’s barometers. Shidduch dating, the engagement period is davka NOT to be like marriage but to get to know each other well enough to feel comfortable committing to life.

In America after the first couple of dates people go on the “fun” dates.

Eees and I are *still* going on fun dates. 🙂

The Wolf

tzippi:

Shidduch dating runs on a continuum from beshows, to the 3-4 dates acceptable in Israel, the 6-8 acceptable in yeshivish Lakewood circles, the 10-12 acceptable in less yeshivish circles, to even a few months in some circles.

I don’t imagine that the same purposes are meant to be served by all these dating styles.

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In any event, in the dating style I am familiar with, the purpose is supposed to evaluate your ability to spend enjoyable “downtime” in each other’s company. This was stressed by the rebbeim who I follow.

“didja marry the handsome dork?”

No 🙁 but the girl he started dating at about 4.5 months into it is about to (or did, last I heard they were engaged)

spontaneous dating seems weird and inappropriate to me.

SERIOUSLY? Since much of life is spontaneous, meaning that it is unpredictable, it would be a good thing to see how each of them handles a spontaneous date. Assuming they are both free that day or evening, two hour notice SHOULD be enough time. Now, that is also assuming the two like each other and are comfortable with each other to be “chill” about it. If they are still going through a shadchan, then they have clearly not reached that point yet.

(Personally, I feel the shadchan should just speak to the boy and girl to see if they agree to go out the first time, then let the boy call the girl himself to actually make the date. I am not for this nonsense that the boy and girl cannot make a date with out a third party doing the actual work of making the arrangements between them once they have each accepted the shidduch.)

Sacrilege

Oy I’m sorry if he did that to you. I know that people have dated 2 people at a time but its usually when its still fresh and a few dates in. To do that after a few months of dating is disgusting and betrayal. I don’t want to get into your business you have already opened up plenty here, I just don’t know what purpose dating for 4 and 1/2 months has. Most people I know who are happily married didn’t date more than max 14 or 15 dates I know someone who dated close to 30 times before engagement and they are divorced. It shouldn’t take that long to figure out he’s/she’s for me.

Sac, if he did that to you, then you should be happy you aren’t married to him. His betrayal wouldn’t end there.

I’m sure that was very difficult for you though.

cookie – IDK, maybe. I feel that in shidduchim you have to do what is ultimately best for you, but you have to make sure that you arent hurting anyone along the way. If he felt this girl was best for him then I am sure she was, I’m just not sure he went about it in the best way.

Can we stop now, please? 😀

WellInformed and others:

I rarely post on these discussion boards; nevertheless, I have a strong issue with several of the similar statements at hand. These statements contribute to ruining our society.

THERE IS NO RIGHT AMOUNT OF DATES!!!

Somebody in Lakewood may just need 20 dates to make a correct decision; I know people who have dated for multiple years and are happily married; others who have dated 3 times and have great marriages. and of course, everything in between 2 weeks, 3 months, 6 months etc.

People need to feel as comfortable as possible. By creating a “maximum X amount of dates” mentality we are creating unnecessary pressure for engagement – often leading to ill-advised decisions which may lead to broken engagements/divorces.

This is a horrible, horrible thing. It is a life long decision. More than 14/15 dates is perfectly reasonable- one is choosing a life partner. Yes, they very may well be able to figure things out and have it “click’ right away.

On the other hand, most people all have their own individual issues and handicaps (health, financial, family-related, emotional etc.) Nobody is the “perfect” situation – people need to give serious thought and have sufficient experience accepting the person for who they are.

There are so many stories of people who trick their spouse over the course of the “maximum 3-4 dates” – they pretend to be more shtark; play down major family conflicts; pretend to be a good listener/dresser/davener etc. etc. etc. If one dates over more time, they get a better picture of the true emes. While for some this may be unnecessary, it may be very necessary for others. I dated a girl for close to six months before ending a relationship – the last 3 months were spent trying to work out ONE specific issue which ultimately could not be resolved.

Keep in mind, wouldn’t one rather date an extra ten dates and be more confident in their perspective of the other person and who they really are. It’s a lifelong decision. I believe it is this simple:

Best case scenario: An extra month or two dating, and have significant more insight and understanding of the other person – this will either give you significantly more confidence entering marriage or help avoid unwanted, life-altering decisions down the road.

Worst Case Scenario: Okay, so you spent a few extra nights at lobbies, restaurants, coffee shops etc. BIG DEAL!!!! Work on enjoying it; it can be fun. And if it doesn’t work out, hopefully youll learn more about yourself.

The Risk-Reward analysis is a no-brainer: so much to gain and so little to lose by just taking an extra month or two (or three) to really learn more about your potential LIFE LONG partner.

C’mon ShZ, that’s not what a BNB is all about.

And of course there’s no right amount of dates, even in the more yeshivish circles it’s important to take your time. Just don’t do it too much too often. A chosson and kallah aren’t bf and gf, and while they should spend time together doing things other than making their plans there really should be some boundaries. Any responsible mashgiach or mentor will say this.

Again, OP referred to “mainstream yeshivish circles.”

shlomozalman – I don’t know whether or not you are married, but if you are I doubt that your wife would care to be just part of a functional arrangement. Marriage is a partnership even if the main function of the partnership is to have children. Does it mean an immediate divorce if there are fertility issues that cannot be solved (yes, even in today’s day and age some cannot)?

minyan gal: Does it mean an immediate divorce if there are fertility issues that cannot be solved (yes, even in today’s day and age some cannot)?

After 10 years of no children, a divorce is in order. (Yes, even in today’s day and age.)

Functional arrangement? May I suggest you speak to your Rebbe for some hadracha, BEFORE you get married, or even start dating.

When I was dating there was a rule of thumb, at least in my yeshiva among my chevra, that after 3 dates you should be sufficiently comfortable with a person to tell them that you are or are not interested in seeing them further.

There is a range that is standard but there are times where more is needed and they arent wrong.

say your lakewood average is 6-8 dates, if a couple needs 19 dates that should be ok is what I’m saying.