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CS, I think you drank too much. Sober up!
Gaon, Hertzl was born, as we are told, into a secular European family- meaning they didn’t believe in G-d or kept anything and didn’t mind intermarring. It is not, Halochically speaking better than conversion. And again, bear in mind the circumstances of his upbringing.
Random,
Derishat Zion was the “admissibility of the observance of sacrifices in Jerusalem at the present day.”
“Gaon, can you inform us as to whether that was a discussion of the issue or a presentation of the idea that it was indeed permissible?”Rav Zvi hirsh Kalisher seriously believed that Public Sacrifices (i.e. Karbon Tzibur) are permissible nowadays. There were some that agreed with him, but most disagreed with him. Some in theory, and some for technical reasons only, and some for both:
See the link below the reason of the Yeshuos Malko of the Gaon of Kutno, which was more of a technical issue (Note, the reason given might be possible nowadays) :
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=38529&st=&pgnum=5
See the below link – the responsum of the ‘Aruch Laner’ wherein he corresponded with Rav Kalisher in the very first couple of chapters of his responsa Binyon Zion.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=591&st=&pgnum=4
Also see the write up from Rav Dovid Friedman of Karlin in the following link:
@chabadshlucha if you want to teach chassidus then start a class in Tanya or the like. What your doing is almost exclusively extracting the kabbalastic concepts from chassidus, and no one has a clue what your talking about. Your probably better off teaching raya meheimna and tikkunei Zohar in the coffee room. Seriously.
Rav Kalisher was niftar prior to the advent of political Zionism. To call him a Zionist is a lie. To even insinuate her shared ideals of the later Zionists is a gross falsehood.
As far as Rabbi Teichtal, he was a small town rabbi who was never considered to be from the gedolim. He only changed his position regarding settling Israel after the war broke out.
This thread has fallen off of the point.
You must remember that when one person says something in the negative, the other will invent their own positive. Claiming that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel means that it is islamic land to other people. Not that it is just in a holding pattern of some sort in waiting. Stating the obvious, that this is not true, does not invite Jewish blood to be spilled. They were doing it long before 1948. Secondly, I do not understand this thought that Jews aren’t allowed to live there at the moment but squatters can just come in.
The only thing this declaration says is this. By not stating the obvious fact, that everyone throughout history has always known, has not contributed to the so-called “peace” process which has been going on for GENERATIONS. The only thing that fake reality does is to keep some people in nonsense jobs who spend their days analyzing the “peace process” for pundits as so-called “experts”. It doesn’t advance peace or stability, it’s a job’s program.I’m born unaffiliated, but even I know enough to know that the Rebbe was not against stating the obvious, and was not against the state of Israel. He stated that Jews live in the land, and therefore we, to paraphrase, we can’t ignore that fact. Then there are the miracles of 48, 67, etc. Doesn’t matter if you didn’t want Israel, it has already miraculously happened and you need to accept this. There are Jews there.
You can keep ignoring it’s existence, and pretend that Jerusalem is as islamic as Ramallah or Rome, it won’t make it so.“Rav Kalisher was niftar prior to the advent of political Zionism. To call him a Zionist is a lie.”
Joseph, agreed. It is rather that Zionizm was an off-shoot of his ideas i.e. Chovevei Zion of settling the land etc. Same goes for Rav Shmuel Mohilever ZTL…
All this historical debate and revisionist history (in the eyes of some) leaves us where we are today. EY is a reality and Yarushalayim is the political capital of EY (whether some here really accept it or not). To suddenly revert back to a Satmar/NK perspective is not going to happen and even the Satmar themselves don’t believe it, although it does make for a good “asifah” to denounce the Trump decision. For those millions of yidden in EY who get up in the AM, get their kids to school safely and then try to get themselves to work and then reverse the process later the day while living a “normal” life, all these debates are moronic. It is all about what exists today on the ground, and the shita of some rav 70 years ago about the eveils of Zionism, is about the least relevant factor in their lives. That train left the station in 1948 and it ain’t coming back. If the Satmar want to build a new KJ outside Entebe in Uganda, I’ll make the fist contribution to the building fund and contribute frequent flyer miles so both the brothers can fly over in style.
CS, it wasn’t too heavily Kabbalistic.
it might be helpful if you proofread, I’m not really sure what the above post was supposed to say.
You are obviously accustomed to standing before audiences of lowly, unlearned individuals but you may want to change your perspective. We are peers, learned and observant for the most part and we are not sitting around in a classroom. There are individuals who seem curious to hear what you have to say and have asked you direct questions, hoping you will actually answer them. Addressing us as your audience is a bit off putting, and circumventing the actual questions is just more of the same. Maybe seeing yourself as an equal and addressing those who have addressed you will be worth a try.
Litvishechosid, I believe the lubavitcher rebbe coined the expression “Chazoko that propoganda doesn’t come back empty-handed” that is, it is always effective to some degree.
That is at least one lesson that hsi chassidim learnt from him.
Here we go again. Chabadshlucha preaching to us lubavitch propoganda.
Trump declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel on 18 Kislev, not on 19 Kislev as she wrote.
And there is absolutely no recognizable significance at all in his age at the time of his innauguration (not his election) because secular months have absolutely no real meaning even in the non-Jewish world. They are just an arbitrary way of dividing up the year with no basis in fact or history.
I don’t understand, if it is the late afternoon in the United States, what is the date in in “Biblical Israel”? considering that I thought the date changes at nightfall.
In other words, if it were not hte 19th of Kislev as I had previous though, am I going to light my “holiday candles” as they call them on the wrong day tomorrow too?Mdd,
“Gaon, Hertzl was born, as we are told, into a secular European family- meaning they didn’t believe in G-d or kept anything and didn’t mind intermarring. It is not, Halochically speaking better than conversion. And again, bear in mind the circumstances of his upbringing.”
With all due respect, there is a major difference in all aspects; from a Halachik perspective and even from a secular perspective, between someone who is just a Ba’al Averia and between someone who is an official Apostate / Meshumad.
Converting was a line that almost every Secular Jew refused to cross…especially mass conversion.
You remind me of a story, there was once a Meshumad who lived St Petersburg in the times of the Czarist rule, who was the official censor of all Jewish Seforim (as only non-Jews were permitted to live there and have a position) . He was actually very helpful in allowing many Seform to be printed. N. Biyalek once came to him with one of his writings and he absolutely refused to permit it, claiming there was ‘kefira’ there, showing him what he meant. Bialik brushed it off saying that it is based on Zohar and that he doesn’t really understand what he meant etc.
On that the Censor replied: “Listen, I know Zohar back and forth as I was the very one that censored it, so please don’t try that trick on me”…
As a last try, Bialik asked him: well, aren’t you a Christian/ meshumad – so what do you care?
Upset – he replied: Hey, you can accuse me of anything, but that is the last thing I will do – trade Judaism for something that dumb as Christianity…(obviously, he converted to obtain the position)…Asides that, we have the old klal of Rav Chaim of Brisk: Nebech an Apikoras iz OIch An Apikoras” and in sense of Avoda Zara everyone would agree to that Klal.
jdff since when do we look at the date in “Biblical Israel”? If someone dies late in the afternoon of the first day of Chanukah in the States, when it is already the second night of Chanukah in Israel does his yahrtzeit fall on the fisrt or second day of Chanukah?
Gaon, to start with: I wrote that he and his parents, mestama, did not believe in G-d.
Gaon, being a koifer is not better than being a Christian. The aversion to conversion is an emotional/historic reality, but according to Halochah it doesn’t hold true (except for chezkas yichus).
I also follow the principle that if someone is exposed to Yiddishkeit enough, he loses the tinok she’nishba status, but an extenuating circumstance it definitely is ( not being brought up frum).“mestama, did not believe in G-d.”
We don’t know that, most secular Jews before the war did believe in G-d, and so are most chilonim nowadays.
There is a debate if a מומר for one or more mitzvahs is considered a Mumat l’Kol haTorah Kulah. But one who worships A”Z and is a מסית is certainly a Mumar.
His halachik status was no doubt:
מורידין ולא מעלין according to all.Somehow we find in all poskim the status of one who is המיר את דתו in a different category than just a chiloni. We don’t sit shivah for him etc.
Also the medina exists now as a HUGE settlement of Jews…so whether you like it or not it’s a metzius…and therefore the reality has changed since the time of the Frierdige Rebbe…and the Rebbe’s shitta reflects that…
To the comment above which claimed the Rebbe “went against” the previous Rebbeim R”L…that’s not how chassidus CHaBaD works…the current Rebbe can mold the shitta as he is the current leader of chassidus CHaBaD, and is therefore the one currently dealing with the reality of the situation…
Hey, first post here, just wondering why syag is jumping down CS’s throat for explaining basic chassidus…if I didn’t understand a gemora and someone explained it to me, I wouldn’t attack them and try to make them feel bad because I was ignorant about a certain part of Torah..it’s wonderous to me how, at times in this forum individuals speak about Kabbalah and chassidus as if it’s not as much a part of the Torah as Gemora…maybe it’s time for some of you all to expand your horizons…Gemara isn’t our only source in Yiddishkeit…
Gaon, you are wrong as far as historical facts go. Secular European Jews in Germany, Austro-Hungary etc. either did not believe in G-d (most of them) or did not believe that he gave us the Torah. Secular Eastern European Jews were Socialists, Communists, secular Maskilim who did not believe in God.
“RSo”, you are answering almost to the point or question that I have. You’re asking if the person (the subject here) dies on the East Coast, where do we declare the date.
For Jerusalem, the city does not move no matter where we are talking about it. Would we not go by the date of the subject (the City in Israel), over where Trump gave the signing? In other words should it matter if he were in Hawaii or the Moon?This I am interested in (although I’ll probably ask for a second opinion offline).
In a few weeks, it will be Christmas, the Santa Tracker goes by local time. And then there will be the world-wide fireworks, which I find amusing, because Asia, and every other part of the world had their New York, but everyone still does something on Jan 1st. So on and so on.
“It’s pretty hypocritical of you to call it “amazing” considering the 5th, 6th and yes even 7th Lubavitcher rebbes were opposed to Zionism”
????? Why, the Rebbe had a Magen David engraved on his kiddish cup!!! He was also quite friendly with some former Israeli PMs. During the 6 day war, it was the Rebbe that was encouraging all the yidden to stay in eretz yisroel and not flee to the war.
In many chabad houses around the world, the shliach says a special tefilla for the IDF together with the congI’m not sure how to feel about the comments along the lines of, there were lots of miracles around regarding the modern state of Israel and therefore this is what Hashem wants.
Everything that happens can only happen with Hashems approval. And part of how He runs the world is that bad things happen like the Holocaust.
Our job is to keep the mitzvos the best we can and maintain our emunah. It’s all somehow for the ultimate good. In the meantime we’re very limited as far as what we could see. We don’t know what the outcomes will be. We just have to keep the Torah the best we can.
I’ve heard some people argue that the embassy move makes the Arabs made and when they are made more angry they will try and kill more of us therefore the move is bad.
What they want is for all the Jews to leave Israel. Anything less than that will make them mad. So are those making the above argument implying we should just give them the whole country? And that will lead to less Jews dying?
I think everyone agrees that someone who tries to replace mitzvah observance with falafel and planting some trees is a rasha. The question is what do we do now? Do we say we’re better off without the current Israeli government and prefer Arabs to take over? Or do we say it sure is terrible that there are so many atheists in Israel and in the government. But since I don’t want to be killed by Arabs and these guys are standing with guys between me and those guys with guns and are letting me keep Torah and mitvos in communities with the highest level of such observance in the world. And if the USA wants to help support my living in Israel and being able to daven at the kosel. Maybe I’ll take that over the alternative.
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