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David Bar-Magen, when a person is deep in mud, (idna d’ris’cha), it isn’t a time to battle with others.
Asking for rachmonus with ka’as does not invoke rachmonus, adarrabah. (As the velt says: B’rogez – rachem tizkor, that is a wishful tefilah!)
If you are full of bitterness, self pity, hate and loathing – come learn Torah. Divrei Torah misamchin ess halev.
Edited
Sadly, many people are apathetic to the plight of a fellow Yid.
I wish we could somehow be in touch to be mechazek each other.
I struggle financially; I am a baal teshuva/ger tzedek (Jewish father, raised non-Orthodox), and am on my own, homeless 6 nights of the week, and I struggle to support myself and save money for school.
If you go to chasunas, Shomrei Shabbos, 770, Landau’s, etc., you should be matzliach.
Please be mispallel me (Doniel Gavriel ben Shlomo v’ Sarah Imenu) and I will be mispallel you.
David Bar-Magen: I feel torn in regard to your words. Those who are being judged as cruel (not the trolls) are really suffering from a tremendous lack of understanding of those with nothing. It is so foreign to them that they must assume it is poor management or a stone unturned. I have even been so lucky as to experience some of those views from people on the board of the charity organizations themselves! Hashem should bless them always to be on that side of the fence.
With tremendous respect I must say, though, I do feel that there is a lack of understanding on your part as well. There are many people out there who suffer tremendous humiliation every time a collector comes to their door. It reminds them of their inability to give, their ineptitude and lack of worth. Some people would rather you think them cruel than pathetic. I do not excuse them for how they make you feel, but I do feel small from your words and I am sure you never meant that.
As I said before, I only wish you the best. I hope and pray that you will receive a Yeshua from your situation and I am sure that every pain you feel and every tear you have shed has been recorded by Hashem himself. Try to see the good in it somehow, thank Hashem for your growth and beg for His Mercy (I do not imply that you haven’t yet). All the best.
I want to echo oomis’ sentiment — that is the kind of caring, compassionate, and heartfelt response that exemplifies the best of humanity, in the Coffee Room and in the larger world. I hope and pray that your dire situation improves as soon as possible, that some window opens when it seems that so many various doors are locked shut.
David Bar-Magen-
I was the poster who asked you not to pray for bad things to happen to someone who mistreated you, or to curse them (“curse” in this case meaning “may such-and-such befall you”, as opposed to uttering an obscenity).
That was not intended to berate you; it was a request. The last thing someone who’s suffering needs is someone else tut-tutting at them from an ivory tower.
You’re clearly an intelligent guy – IY”H you’ll find a better paying job sooner or later.
Besha’a tova with your IY”H upcoming simcha, which is far greater than any money-based simcha can ever be.
I never thought I would agree with Schmendrick, but this time around, I most certainly do.
David Ba-Magen: Please send your full Hebrew name and mother’s Hebrew name through this post and I shall daven for you and Daniel Gavriel ben Sarah everyday, and at licht benching, at hafrashat challah each Erev Shabbos and Erev Yom Tov, and at Rosh Chodesh and mid month bracha parties where each woman answers Amen loudly and with kavana for H’KBH’s rachamim for those that we daven for outloud.
Mezonos = Parnassa
Hagefen = People who need Zivugim Hagunim (Shidduchim)
Ha’etz = Zerah Shel Kaiimah For people who need to be blessed with children I’YH)
Ha’adama = Refuah Shelama
Shehakol = to daven for everything (Every name is mentioned a second time!)
May HaShem bless you with an abundance of HAGEFEN = Hey = Hatzalacha rabbah bechol maasai yedeichem, Gimmel= Gut, Gezunt, Gebenched long years, Pey = good Paranasa be shefa always (and may you always be able to be on the other side to give much zedaka to others, mosdos, shuls, schools, etc with an open heart and kind word, smile and bracha), Nun = Yiddishe Nachat from your dear family and all Klal Yisrael!
May the forthcoming birth of your child be easy, on time and without any fuss, and may the child be healthy and also your wife should have the koach and gevura to get back her strength immediately to do many mitzvos and good deeds for others, and may the child bring much joy, happiness, bracha, hatzlacha, and much yiddishe nachat to you and your wife! May you be blessed that all your tefillot be answered le tova and you should have besurot tovot with many simachot with simcha! Amen kein yehe razon!
TheBear: Do you agree with Shmendrick or with Shmendrick EDITED?
BTW which bear were you before you “came back”? 600 Kilo bear or that other bear guy?
I nearly got into such a situation as well. Luckily I never reached the bottom the way you did, but to be honest, that is only thanks to my mother in law who was always willing to help me out. (And should the need have arisen, both my mother in law and my parents would have offered us to move in with them if needed.)
Two years ago now, we made the difficult decision to leave Israel and start a new life abroad. I found a job in the UK and we moved there. We were only able to move thanks to huge amounts of financial and material support from my mother in law, my parents, and a friend of me. Now, we are financially independent and paying off our loans. This past summer, we even went on a holiday for the first time in years. We are still paying hundreds of pounds per month (perhaps $500) on debts.
Indeed, others sometimes also seem bewildered by us living in a cheap, small apartment on a street of non-Jews (while most people live in big expensive houses). They don’t understand how that could be, when I have a decent salary. Also there is, I think, a prevailing attitude that anyone who works fulltime must be much better off than those in kollel. Well, in Gateshead, tons of kollel families live in big houses and have cars and go on holidays – I do not have the first and second, and the third is extremely rare.
That said, we are seriously improving. A huge setback was that my wife’s employer has reduced her hours from 20 to 8 per week. We just about finished paying off a loan of $300 monthly, and now we’re getting a setback of $300, so we’re basically stuck at the same level as before instead of having $300 more to spend.
Still, I cannot imagine what would have happened had we stayed in Israel. We did the right thing by moving. It’s not easy – especially for my wife, who really misses her family and cannot go to see them regularly (getting to E”Y from here costs about the same as from NY). For me it’s a lot easier, since my family live in the Netherlands, just across the North Sea – it costs 1/5th of the cost of going to Israel.
As for setbacks, consider my wife had severe trouble with her ankle and had 5 surgeries over the past 4 years, which left her unable to work for long times. Only recently has this been resolved, hopefully permanently.
Anyway, why did I share all this? To show you that there is a way out. I don’t know whether your or her parents can help you, but if it’s possible, I’d suggest moving in with them for a while. Even if you have to fit all of you in a little room and you won’t be able to keep most of your belongings, it’s worth it. You can use the money you save on rent to pay off your debts and improve your situation. That would have been our plan if we had not managed otherwise.
First of all, David Bar-Magen: May Hashem give you a Yeshuah quickly and easily, and may He shower you with bracha v’hatzlacha, good health and happiness.
Second of all, I’m in a very similar situation to yours. And “im lo yo’il lo yazik”; try to say Parshas Hamon every day, as per the Yerushalmi it’s supposed to help with Parnassa. Also, if you even have just a few minutes a day, try to learn a sefer that deals with bitachon that speaks to you. Personally I have been getting tremendous chizuk from “sichos chizuk” from Reb Tzvi Meyer Zilberberg. There were times when I was so down I was sure that nothing in the world could give me hope, and that sefer would usually do it. Try to borrow the volume on Beraishis (or find a shul that has it) which has some incredible sichos for people in tzoris. Actually, any volume will do, it’s just that Beraishis has one VERY powerful one which I’ve recently seen. If you’re interested, I’ll look up the page b”n.
Third of all: Try to be dan l’kaf z’chus to those posters here whose posts lack the required Jewish Midah of Rachmonus, as one of the following probably applies to them:
1. They may be non-Jewish trolls,
2. They were born with the middah of achzaryus, and this is their big Yetzer Hora and nisayon in life (to those of you to whom this applies, some good advice: get off the internet so you don’t constantly raise the temperature in your afterlife)
3. They are people who have had a hard life and have become cynical, bitter, distrustful people (idem for getting off the internet),
4. They’re idiots.
Fourth of all: to those of you to whom one of the four points above apply: thank you for having made it clear to the rest of us who you are, and on which side of the fence of Jewish values and Hashkofa you stand.
And specifically to shmendrik: I’m as right-wing and yeshivish as they come. I’ve probably learned more years and dapim than you have. Which is why I can tell you that the amount of chisaron b’bein adom lchaveiro and bad middos (let’s start with gaavah…) you have shared with us in this thread is simply astounding.
It’s one thing when you want to make uber-yeshivish comments in a hashkafa thread. But doing so in a thread where you use your so-called Torah knowledge to further trample on a down-trodden Yid is disgusting. I sincerely hope you’re merely an idiot, because the alternative would be scary for you.
Personally I think the mods should ban you for your comments in this thread, which are as trolly as they come…
There are so many sad parts to this sad story but the one thing that really struck a nerve is how a Yid has been left so alone with no family. Where is your father? Your mother? How have you been left with no one? Makes me sad.
As a general aside, not many people making $25K with only one kid will qualify for any assistance at all, and I don’t even know of any studio’s for as low as $1K a month
You are correct. I can’t imagine an area where you can’t get a basement or studio for a normal price, so that the average Joe (or Yankel) can live there. Also, someone in that earnings range should (I think) be getting money back like the earned income tax credit, which would bump up their income at least a little.
FYI, the name of the org. is Mesilah. Their website is here (Mods, please allow):
Chassidishe Gatesheader: I’m impressed with you, and hope that I would do the same in your situation (If it happened, C”V). I don’t know if it was applicable in your case, but did you consider bankruptcy at some point?
I’m also going to ask that the following link/article be allowed. It was originally in Hamodia, and deals with attitude towards money.
David, i want to help. How can i contact you?
David Ba-Magen: Please send your full Hebrew name and mother’s Hebrew name through this post and I shall daven for you and Daniel Gavriel ben Sarah everyday, and at licht benching, at hafrashat challah each Erev Shabbos and Erev Yom Tov, and at Rosh Chodesh and mid month bracha parties where each woman answers Amen loudly and with kavana for H’KBH’s rachamim for those that we daven for outloud.”
Why am I not surprised that you have such a concrete way to be of help by doing such a chessed?
David Bar-Magen: Shavua Tov Mevurach, and a gut, gezunt, gebenched Tamid! I have not been on the computer until now (way after Shabbos in London), I will immediately pass on your name and Doniel Gavriel ben Sarah’s name to the right channels to be davened for everyday. May you both be blessed with much menuchat hanefesh ve guf and an abundance of HAGEFEN, and much siyata dishmaya to accept your tests with AHAVA, much LOVE. H’KBH gives each person tests that only what they can cope with.
Life is not a bed of roses for anyone, at any given time. You must strengthen your bitachon and emuna with tefilla. Try to say Parshat HAMAN each day with increased kavana. Try to find a second evening job or a Sunday job to try to bring more in. Nothing should be below your dignity. And, finally when one does give you zedaka, even if it is one penny, smile and say a beautiful THANK YOU! You don’t know what THEY are going through.
I always collect for hachnasat kallot to help them get together a simple trousseau and a simple simchat nissuin wedding. Once, I went out collecting in absolute freezing, icy weather with all my small children in tow. I went from door to door, and I knocked on one door and a man answered and I asked politely with a smile for a donation. He said, “ABSOLUTELY NOT!” I said, “Thank you and G-D bless you!” One of my children, who was 4 at the time said, ” Mommy, but the man never gave you anything, why did you say, Thank you and G-D bless you?” I answered sweetly, “Tatalah, because the man did not give me anything this time, does not mean I have to be rude to him and make a Chilul Ha-Shem, maybe next time he will give something!”
My son never forgot this incident. Many years later when he was in Yeshiva in Monsey, he related this story to the Rosh Yeshiva Shlita. When I came to visit the Yeshiva, the Rosh Yeshiva said to me, “it is a absolute honor to meet you finally! Your son related to us the zedaka story and he said what an impression you made on him that he related the story verbatim many years’ later!”
You are the owner of your words and actions until they are directed at the person it is spoken to, then that person is the owner. Every curse is collected by a malach and chas ve shalom can be redirected to you.
One suggestion, go to see Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis at her Hineni
headquarters. Talk to her, or her children and they may be able to help you in finding a better paid job. She has done it for others she might be able to help. Much Hatzlacha in all that you do.
Smile, be happy with the forthcoming birth I’YH of another child which will bring a bracha for you and your wife, with much parnasa, light and laughter.
Gut Voch!
Oomis: Shavua Tov Mevurach!
We are ALL BNEI YISRAEL! If I can do something positive, I shall try to do it with my heart and soul. What is worth living if we can not do good in our lives for others that may need our help?
May we all have the koach and gevurah to do many mitzvot le shem shamayim!
I am the 600 Kilo Bear, and I agree with Schmendrick – Edited. It is very difficult to agree with an unedited Schmendrick.
Once again, someone needs to look into this situation and provide the proper help.
I think what needs to be added is that while every feeling person can and should commiserate with your unfortunate situation, you seem to have a bit of an attitude and an “es Kumt Mir” outlook which is off-putting to most people. To expect more than a dollar from each person is totally unreasonable and smacks of a lack of gratitude. I wish you Hatzlacha.
Hi David;
Basically, I am you. I have been very wealthy in my lifetime and very destitute; several times over. The daily grind of being impoverished; the stress of owing massive amounts of money, and the toll of long term poverty are a very difficult nisayon. But I do have some very basic words of commiseration/advice for you – and not for your supporters or detractors.
1. Stop focusing on the inability of the financially functional to understand your matzav. That is the way HaShem made human beings.
2. Be VERY HAPPY anytime anyone gives you even the most meager of donations. Give them a brocha and mean it.
3. When you are humiliated by the potential giver; use this humiliation and give the person a brocha. Tell them that you are humiliated, and that even though the feeling is equivalent to death, you would like to use the opportunity to offer a brocha. Be sincere. You have tremendous zchus to give powerful brochas when you are in a state of public humiliation.
4. Consider collecting with your wife and child.
5. Consider moving. I know it’s major, and your current job/support system may not make this even possible, but you my be able to position your family in a better situation by getting out of the city and relocating to a smaller out of town (healthier, cleaner air) community.
6. Attempt to get a letter of recommendation/support from a respected Rav. He should also be able to provide you with direction.
7. On the other side of the Rav’s letter, print your resume. This is not in order to find you a job; which I am sure you and your wife have several; but to help in securing donations.
8. Know that you are in good company. Many of our illustrious forefathers and mothers lived in destitute. Glean comfort from their stories. I know I do!
If you wish, have your wife contact me through YWN and I will swap ideas on how to cook good healthy meals for pennies a day – how to stretch Tomchei Shabbos to last all week, and how to stay positive!
Much Hotzlocha!!
Downandin
David Bar Magen, I feel for your situation with full support and empathy. I have been down and out very hard in my life in the past, and have even resorted to “dumpster diving”. I survived single parenthood on welfare and shopping for the cheapest vegetables and making my own milk out of soybeans.
But I want to give you an Itza. An idea. Why dont you set up a free webpage for yourself like a blogspot and set up a paypal donation link and reap in benefits from all the hearty good souls In this CR who are a part of this thread? Its a good idea.
May G-d bless you to have what you need.
downadin: Why not post your frugal and healthful ideas here for all to share.
D Bar M- You just got some seriously bad advice from downandin. Really bad!
Please do not ever “consider collecting with your wife and child” (4).
Never take your child(ren) with you. And if that means your wife can’t come along, then leave them in her care and go alone.
This is wrong on so many levels; I will leave it to certified mental health professionals with experience in childhood development to respond with specifics. If none join the discussion here, then perhaps you are acquainted with someone who can discuss this subject with you, or seek guidance from your Rav or Rebbetzin before undertaking such an ill-advised course of action.
Research shows that beggars get almost twice as much money when they’re accompanied by a child or a dog.
mamish some people make the mistake of sitting in kollel for twenty then wake up when its time for shidduchim and regret all that time spent learning when they could have been earning a parnassah. well all those out there like that should know hakadosh boruch hu had you in mind when he put welfare in fdr’s head and g-d was also behind the concept of cope and other such programs to help the struggling yungerman wake up and see the real world for himself and provide for himself and his family.
sincerely the rebbe
NO yid should have to go through what you are, no excuse to be rude if you dont want to give but dont insult. Have you approached ANY of the COJO’s whether in Flatbush (718) 377-2900 R’ Pikus or Boro Park 718-972-6600 rabbi silber?
Sign up with a new username. I don’t like this one.
-95
David Bar-Magen,
Amein, and thanks for the good wishes. The one I was referring to was Parshas VaYeitzei ???”?. There are two of them, it’s the second one; the title starts with the words “Chizuk Gadol…”
Also take a look at some of the other sichos there on bitachon. There’s one in Vayigash, and a shorter one in Toldos I think.
All the best
DBM,
Thank you for communicating how it feels to be on “the other side of the fence” (or, should we say, “of the dollar”). Your words made an impression on me and I hope I will view aniyim in a more compassionate light from now on.
I have been somewhat guilty of complaint #1 about being numb. Apparently, when someone comes around collecting, the taiva to not give is so strong that it creates a barrier that prevents me from appreciating the depth of his need. I consider him to be an inconvenience and then just give a dollar to be yotze (complaint #2). But since you’re a poster on an anonymous forum where there’s no danger of my having to give anything, there was no barrier! So your words were able to penetrate.
(To all mussar mavens out there: do you feel my psychological analysis is correct? Or is there some other reason some of us have trouble feeling for our fellow Jews when they come collecting?…)
There is a homeless Jewish man who always sit on a certain corner where I live along for money. I must admit I have never stopped and even done more than smiled. Yesterday I was walking with my mother and she ( as always) stopped to give him a few dollars. With shaking hands he accepted and asked if we could get him hot soup from the pizza store next to where he sits. My mom was more than happy to do so. In my head this thread was playing over and over. My mother happens to be a wonderful person, and I felt like a horrible one becAuse I live here and see him almost everyday, she was visiting. True story, had to share.
Thanks for sharing, MorahR.
Sorry about the typos:(
While I feel your pain and suffering, having myself gone through what you are going through but worse, I can give you some valuable advice. Before I begin, this is coming from someone that has 7 children, loss of a hone, loss of income and having a few special needs kids. So if you think that your situation is bad, there is always someone worse off. That is not to minimize your situation, but putting things into perspective. I was on the verge of a breakdown, with the everything possible that could go wrong went wrong. I seeked help from the Government, local organizations and they all came to my rescue. After meeting different organizations, and being the recipient of Toimchei Shabbos, I was able to breathe easier and there was hope on the horizon. I also took a look at my spiritual well being and discovered there were areas that needed improvement, and I made it a point of improving my relationship to Hashem. Guess what, everything turned around. I cannot say that I am totally out of the hole, but I am definitely living a straightforward life. There are people that are desperate to help people like you and me. Resorting to “schnorer” $30 a day will not solve your problem. What will solve your problem, is approaching different organizations and the Government programs. You must also re connect with the Ribonei Shel Oilam. With all those aspects you will be better off, I guaranty it.
I hope this turn around very soon. Good luck
I really hope everything works out for you and your family, esp with the new baby on the way. I am davening for you.
Just one thing:
“…I don’t even know of any studio’s for as low as $1K a month”
I don’t know what your apartment situation is, however I also live in an area where the rent is generally at least this high, sometimes way more, but keep searching – sometimes an apartment opens up even in NY that is much cheaper (and it can even be a decent apartment.) I looked for a good few months and b”h was able to find a nice 2 1/2 brm apt for under $1000. It may not be necessary to move away from where you live now and your job etc.
if the mods allow, have the OP post the name of his Rov. This will establish his legitimacy for the skeptics & provide a place to offer assistance
CH3-CH2-OH
Member
BaalHabooze?
David-
Don’t give your personal information, just the name of your Rov. His address can be looked up by anyone who is interested. You should tell him to expect calls from us. He will obviously confirm all you have said. We can send checks made out to his k’hilla, earmarked for your use. You & I will never meet, no one except the Rov will know your personal details, it will be matan b’sayer without any internet exposure. What do you think?
Again, don’t post you name. we don’t need it. JUST YOUR ROV’S NAME. we’ll call him & say one of your balabatim posted on the YWN that he is in dire need. If you tell him to expect that call, then when we call he’ll know who we’re calling about, tell us how to make out the check. The shul will deposit our check to it’s account & write you a check for the amount sent in.
David – thank you.
Unfortunately at the moment it looks like I will be finishing the month with 0 left (and the usual overdraft)…. so I am not in a position to be able to help you, right now. 🙁
But I hope others are and I myself will bookmark this topic and will not forget about it. I’m just trying to think of a way to help you from here (without having to pay a huge amount of transfer costs).
I am sorry, we all have an obligation to take care of the people in our communities, the people whose heartbreaking story we know first-hand, the people who in the past gave generously and now have fallen onto hard times. We can hardly do that, in the current economy. May I dare suggesting everyone is in the same situation and this is why no one has been able to help?
Daniela, you missed David’s point. He isn’t insisting anyone help. He is asking why some of the above posters told him that if he posted his rebbe’s information they will contact him to verify and send him financial assistance. But after David posted his rebbe’s information those posters suddenly disappeared and didnt followup with the promised help.
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