So I have this friend…

Both are assur. Even if one can twist a scenario where one is “only” a dirabanan it is still assur (in fact, it might a bigger problem if someone says “its ONLY a dirabanan”). Whatever the case, this friend has apparantly straightened herself out. Why are we harping on how she USED TO act?

As for “echta viashuv” the mishna in yoma already tells us yom kippur is not michaper (not 100% certain what that means and how it applies…its been a while since I learned it – but whatever it means, it isn’t a good attitude to have).

apushatayid~ I am also VERY chill. but, re: the teens- I am talking about hefker/chilled in the strongest sense of the word. I didn’t really wanna get too detailed in my explanation, but if you need further clarification: these kids are partying [again, to the fullest extent of the word] & physically all over each other… drinking, smoking, etc. I think the OP was trying to be discreet in her referring to her friend as ” veeeeery chilled out and did things that were not always according to Halachah standards.” I’ve seen it tooo many times– as I said previously: in B’klyn, upstate, in Israel, etc. maybe if you had Facebook & saw some of their pictures that they’ve posted you’d understand more.

hoping & praying that they all clean up their acts…..

In life and especially with teenagers you sometimes have to pick your battles.

The teenagers are not really that mature, thats why when they get that first bit of freedom in Israel they take advantage of it.

You have to look at the bigger picture, the girl in the story turned out OK and in the end thats all that really matters.

I just look upon it as a lesson in life.

This thread should not be a thread in Halacha as much as how to raise teenagers especially those who might have a little rebellion .

One can yell at the teenagers all day Assur M’Arysa and Koreis etc, some it will work and some it wont. For the ones that it wont, many times its just best to wait it out until it passes. And it seems in most cases it ends up just fine.

I don’t think there is only one best way for everyone. For people who have always done the right things throughout their lives, that is the best way for them to forge a relationship with G-d. For people who have strayed from the path and then found their way back on, that was the best way for them to forge their relationship with G-d. Everyone has their own path. The important thing is to learn from mistakes and make yourself a better person because of it.

There’s a line from a song I like that goes as follows:

“Sometimes you’ve got to be wrong, and learn from mistakes.

I live with serenity now, not self-righteous hate.”

I’m familiar with facebook, the “scenes” you describe in the catskills, e”y etc. (I’m a father of 3 teenagers). I also have my own ideas why teens from “mainstream” yeshivas and beis yackovs end up this way. I think it starts with telling teens they are on the express to gehennom for going bowling with their friends of the same gender, (at a time when members of the opposite gender are not their no less) or playing basketball for an hour instead of using bein hasdarim to learn even more. It comes from weighing every action, thought and word spoken against “what will be with your shidduch!” threats from parents and teachers alike. Put anyone under enough stress and they will look to relieve themselves from it, whether you like it (or the methods chosen) or not. I think every parent should do what they feel is best for their own kids (with input from their rabbonim/rabbeim/madrichim who truly know these children) and not rely on “well thats what they say works”. Your child is not their child, and your teenager is not their teenager. Chanoch LiNaar Al Pi Darko does not mean making every child fit the cookie cutter mold (although I admit, it makes parenting in the short term a whole lot easier). do what is best for your kid, and ignore everyone else. Dont worry about the yentas or your childrens shidduchim. You raise healthy, wholesome torah true yidden, you will find them a shidduch (with apologies to NASI and their numbers game).

MiddlePath, what you are saying is a big chidush, and I do not know if I agree with it.