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This took place in a well known top elementary yeshiva in Brooklyn. There was a third grade teacher who wanted to take a picture of her class for a yearbook. After finally setting everyone up, the teacher took out her smartphone to snap the picture. Just as she pulled out her phone, a bunch of seventh grade kids came by and started yelling “No smartphones! No smartphones!” and convinced the kids to make funny faces and not allow the picture to be taken. The teacher tried to yell “Derech Eretz”, to no avail. Luckily, the principle known for his toughness, and who nobody would dare start up with was walking by and was able to settle things.
These seventh grade kids went to their rebbe who is a Gerer chassid and he congratulated them for what they did. This is outrageous. Yes, the smartphone issue is not something to take lightly, but we focus too much on the “smartphones are bad” aspect, and don’t talk about how to deal with someone that has a smartphone especially when it’s someone who you owe respect to such as a parent or teacher. If the rabbeim don’t start teaching derech eretz, all the great chinuch and hashkafa you are instilling in them is good for nothing. If they use it against their parents and teachers, or against older people, it is good for nothing. This is just one of many stories that happen today. If we will not fix this, who will?
A big part of the problem is that we fail to differentiate between chamur and assur. The way the teacher was using the phone wasn’t assur, but the kids must have thought it was because all they know is that “smartphones are bad” and chutzpa is מותר במקום סמארטפון.
We also need to stop this madness that smartphones are bad. If you want that extra chumra to live without one so be it. But its just one of these technologies like cars that are here to stay. Or like going to Manhattan full of priztus. Or the idea that we can’t look at a moving screen. Who still never sees any videos of any sort? This idea that we need to live in a cave or live like the Amish is just ridiculous. Now if the smartphones were unflitered then yes you have a very valid point.
This has gotten so silly that I know a hatzalah guy who told me a patient needed to sign a form on his device and the pateint refused because she was mekabel to never touch a smart phone. So he had to wait and delay her much needed care. The world has gone mad.
While the issue is a complicated nuanced topic, I am not sure I agree with your assessment of the situation in the story you tell.
Since you chose to describe the school as a “well known top elementary yeshiva in Brooklyn”, I presume that they have a standard for staff which the teacher was likely violating.
The seventh grade Rebbe was merely reinforcing the lessons he taught the students before.
The teacher yelling “Derech Eretz” is a great way to absolutely lose class decorum.
The PrinciPAL (that is how you spell it) getting involved was how you support your employee seven when said employee is making a mistake.
As far as children using it against parents/teachers, you have a concern that is not easily addressed.If the same story happened in a place that all the students happily took the picture and didnt say anything I guarantee you that the reason why they kept quite is NOT because they have more derech eretz but because all of them have smartphones in their homes that they use either their siblings or parents…. And they are the type that most of them will have their own smartphone within a few years.
I’m very impressed that the girls understand the dangers of a smartphone. Obviously, if all the girls were not letting their teacher take a photo of them with a smartphone, the parent body and school are anti-smartphone and the teacher should’ve respected that. It is the teacher who did not have derech eretz in this case.
@gottytruth
What wrong with using filtered smartphone? Its here to stay. Its a nice chumra that you don’t use it but its time to get real. Judiasm isn’t about being AmishJust pointing out, this sounds like its a boys school with a female thrid grade teacher.. I can’t imagine that school rules are so rigid then. In a real “yshivish or chasdish boys school 3rd grade teachers aren’t females.
To chaim87 i learned in a very yeshivish cheder, they even learned in yiddsh even though it was tataly a litvish school and they had female teachers thru fourth grade.
It’s hilarious when the same people who are against protests of smartphones, are the same ones who wouldn’t let a kid, or teacher, come to school without vaccines and immunizations.
Maybe you should choose schools that teach about derech eretz more often than about phones.
@gottytruth
How long ago? This is a failry new shift. (10-15 years ago)Whereas everything you are saying may be true, this is not a smartphone vs derech eretz issue. It is a plain derech eretz issue. Unfortunately the level of derech eretz that is seen in many of our youth has gone down tremendously. This needs to be addressed. But it has nothing to do with the fact that the smartphone was used, that was just the excuse the children used. The OP makes it sound like his issue is what the children were disrespectful about. If it was an issue that bothered him, it woulds have been ok. Just the smartphone is not something that bothers him enough to make such an issue about.
In short, there are 2 separate issues here, and they need to be dealt with separately. 1) the smartphone usage, and 2) the childrens lack of derech eretzBushah and disgrace for any Rebbi to be seen by his talmidim with a smartphone – filter or not
It’s confusing to students (gilrs too) when Rabbeim and teachers don’t have Hanhaga that is a step higher and act like everyone else.
And also denigrates the Mechanchim and Mechanchos who do act the partconfusing to the students
Not sure how to start a new topic
Will someone open one up regarding the MDA video on ywns whatsapp full of nudity?In general it’s terrible that there are Rebbis and Morah using smartphones.
Their position demans of them to be a step up from the Hamoin Am.
And its confusing to the kids (school says its improper but my Rebbi/teacher has one !)Pinchas, this sounds like AZ on some ways as if smartphone is the source of danger to Yidden. I understand that you heard lots of lectures about it, but it is at the end just a device. You can teach children derech eretz and Torah with or without phones, just spend enough time with the children and show them a good example.
“What wrong with using filtered smartphone?”
The issue with a smartphone doesn’t start and end with what can be seen on it, and what can be accessed.
Any Jewish articles on technology will say this clearly.
The issues also involve the addiction, distraction, time consuming aspects which unfortunately we see in the effects of even a filtered smartphone.
Whilst obviously it’s not for everyone’s level not to own one, it’s certainly something to aspire to and it shouldn’t be asserted that there’s nothing wrong with using a filtered smartphone.
With regard to how it effects children if their teacher has a smartphone, they don’t know if the device is filtered or not so will often put all smartphones into the same bad category, because better safe than sorrygobrit, I don’t deny potential problems, but smartphones are not that different from all other objects in our life. You can get addicted to candies and to shouting at your children, and your bike can take you to inappropriate neighborhood – maybe not as fast as internet.
Still, it makes sense to start with basics – spend time with children, teach them good life habits and interests, use phones (or better computers) to do good and interesting things. This should be the first line of defense.
> With regard to how it effects children if their teacher has a smartphone, they don’t know if the device is filtered or not so
The idea that children should police how their teachers use the phones is beyond ridiculous. Next, police should not be wearing weapons because children don’t know whether policeman knows how to use the weapons? Start teaching those kids middos. This school clearly failed so far.
@philosopher
I don’t think they’re doing it because they understand the dangers. They’re doing it because they see an excuse to disrespect the teacher, with the backing of older boys and other staff.
They don’t even know what a smartphone is or what’s wrong with it.frumfemale > They’re doing it because they see an excuse to disrespect the teacher,
you are probably right. Once, an elderly rov told me, with a smile, that he works as a “goyishe teacher”, that is he is teaching history in a yeshiva and that is how students see him despite his appearance … So, this disrespect is indeed the core problem.
Here’s a question for all of you “what’s wrong with using a filtered smart phone?” and “it’s here to stay” people: Totally aside from anything a filter would block out; How much time do you spend on your smartphone? I’m sure all you commentators are self-disciplined and conscientious about your usage. I’m sure you never sit in a family or other social gathering on your phone. I’m sure you would never engage content that spews loshon horo, motzei shem ra, leitzanos, non-Yiddishe hashkafos, apikorsos and on and on. I’m sure the amount and the quality of time you spend with your spouses and children isn’t at all affected by the portal to never ending entertainment, shopping, work, news and educational (gfaw – like that’s what any significant number of people mostly use it for) content in your pocket. I’m sure non of your teenage kids would never get sucked into an online (filtered!) life (Also FYI, kids can get past filters – the age old rule is they’re smarter than you when it comes to tech). But although you personally do not suffer from any of these potentially (and in many many cases – actually) very damaging issues, can you be soivel the idea that there may be weaker (or just more normal) people than yourselves out there, for whom their ruchniyus would be wholly improved sans smartphone – even a filtered one? If not, then sorry to bother you. However there are plenty of people who can. They might just have a point. I gave up mine in the early days of smartphones when I realised it was sucking up my time in a way and to a degree that just didn’t happen prior to its invention. I’m not talking about anything that would be screened out by a filter!
And regarding the “it’s here to stay” argument: So are many bad things in society. You don’t call someone who doesn’t smoke “Amish”. You wouldn’t call someone who doesn’t go to the movies or watch TV “Amish”. Unless you would. In which case again, sorry to bother you. Just because something is “progress” doesn’t make it good. You can progress towards a cliff edge and then progress right off it.
Bensolomon, I am sure what you are saying applies to many people and should be used. At the same time, you should focus first on creating the right environment – kids can use phones to stay in contact with friends and family, follow Jewish and world events, learn grammar and math, check out shidduchim. A lot of this is better done on computers rather than phones, of course.
This is normal use of technology. It is not different from cars – that can also take you to bad neighborhood; go thru red light; etc. Or from books. A lot comes from examples. I was happy to see that (some of) my kids started driving and ask me questions – was I supposed to let this car go in front of me? They possibly do it because I was pointing out to them when I let someone in a difficult position into the road or lane.
Of course, if there are abuses, measures need to be taken.
Bensolomon: Agree with what you said. Smartphone, even if filtered, can (negatively) affect your life too. And although many may not like it, using your smartphone to spend all day posting on ywn coffee room isn’t exactly the best occupation and can intrude on your life and family time a lot
So as I said, although on your level you see nothing wrong with one using a filtered smartphone, recognise and respect those who are on that level; it’s definitely something to aim towards and not to scorn as behind the times… So much has become accepted in society, but that doesn’t mean it should become accepted in our society- however cliche it may sound, we do need to remember that we are a higher level of creation than them, and we need to uphold that standardAs a former 7th grader, catching a teacher doing something the Yeshivish velt considers wrong and causing a ruckus about it that results in missed lessons, is something that never seems to change.
YS > catching a teacher doing something the Yeshivish velt considers wrong
so why not catch a teacher driving a car? A CAR! It might have a radio. It might take you to some places of disrepute and even some modernishe shuls.
I do agree that the problem is not with hte kids but the adults who conditioned them to value nonsense above respect to T’Ch or even just human beings.
BTW, if those teachers are Torah teachers, these children should be taught a halocha of asking the teacher in a respectful way – why were you doing X if the Torah says Y? (and in most cases, after the fact, so that there will be no hint of disrespect).
gobrit > using your smartphone to spend all day posting on ywn coffee room isn’t exactly the best occupation and can intrude on your life and family time a lot
Arguably, sitting with your haverim without smartphones and saying wild denigrating things about members of other communities you never talked to is less productive than going to YWN and actually exchanging opinions with those who hold other opinions.
@Always_Ask_Questions Believe you me, if 7th graders would be able to cause a ruckus about a teacher driving a car without it being obvious that they’re just fooling around, they would.
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