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is it normal to say no to a girl/guy because she has a smartphone?
What about a TV?
depends in which circles.
I think not. That shouldn’t be a determining factor.
The whole smartphone issue is a bunch of nonsense. Those same people have computers with internet access. A smartphone or computer can be used constructively or abused. The same can be said about anything. Maybe people should poke their eyes out to avoid seeing anything improper?
Some Bochur once wrote about a girl not being tznius because she wore a seatbelt. Things just get so absurd. Look at the entire person and see if she is right for you. The smartphone is a non-issue proposed by maniacs, like this supposed Rov in Bnai Brak holding exorcisms for smartphones. You posted here, so you have a computer with internet access. Why is a smartphone worse than your computer?
if any boy was to turn down a girl he liked just because she has a smartphone he is a very dumb boy.
the girl would also want a serious explanation as to why she was turned down and would be very shocked to see a boy act so narrow minded.
as long as the phone is used for the right reasons then i dont see what people make such a matsav about.
then again it does depend on what level of yiddishkeit a person is on and who are we to judge?!
Agree, marriage shouldn’t be determined with small things.
But what bother you about the smartphone?
What is the problem with it?
When you understand you’re problem with it, you can find a solution or a compromise on it…
Is it unfiltered internet? Games? Addictedness?
All can be solved, and talked about it with the girl, your issues with it and opinions…
I believe anything can be solved through communication.
Speak to her, and tell her your concerns
Another case of closed-minded open-mindedness. Is there really no difference between a computer and a smart phone? I really dont wanna go thru a whole internet shmooze here but ya
1. smartphones are 24/7
2. they’re a little more private
Back to the OPs question, who obviously was coming from a position that it ISN’T so simple. It is more common among girls to have a smartphone, ie a female version of a guy that doesnt have a smartphone might have one. Depending on how yeshivish/frum you are a girl shud or shud not have one. Probably find out from your friends that you consider on your “level”.
There is no such thing as a female version of a guy.
k
There is no such thing as a female
That’s not true.
This is a slightly ridiculous question – The answer is obviously not a YES/NO answer, it is going to be dependant on the various other factors – what are the backgrounds of the boy/girl in question? What families do they come from? What future plans do they each have? What have they been through? Which sect of Judaism do they belong?
Who said there’s no such thing as a female?
Those were your words, taken out of context, as I think you took another poster’s words out of context.
What I meant was that every person is an individual and you can’t compare.
Don’t you think you can put people in some form of religious/cultural category, at least for the purpose of marriage compatibility?
The number of yeshivish sems with WhatsApp groups means that either such a condition will either fall apart or DRASTICALLY increase the shidduch crisis.
Writersoul, you’re assuming the number of boys with that hakpadah to be much greater than the number of girls who have smartphones, and that the hakpadah is non negotiable.
Look, I’m a sem girl and I have to agree with some posters: Having a smartphone is very different than having internet access on a computer or the like. It is very, very annoying to have friends with smartphones- their phones beep all the time and they instinctively look at it and end up replying or sharing. Not everyone, but most. If you’re marrying a girl with a smartphone, you should include the smartphone in the kesubah. I am NOT exaggerating, btw. Try holding a decent convo with a girl holding a smartphone and you’ll have to agree with me.
I would hope that frum people’s smart phones are 24/6 at worst. How are they more private than computers? People use them in public. Most computer usage is in a private home, office, etc.
Yy, I would hope so too, but have you ever heard of half Shabbos?
They are certainly, in general, more private than computers. Specifically, in a frum internet enabled home, it is often the case that the computer is in a place which is readily visible to all. This is obviously not the case with smartphones.
I would hope that frum people’s smart phones are 24/6 at worst
ya, i was testing you. (really, you failed)
DY- HA! and thanks for the backup
I think a person should be judged by what level on Candy Crush they are on. IF you’ve beaten 257 levels then you have no time for a spouse.
I’m more of a level 20 kinda guy myself. That shows that you can relax and chill, but not too much.
its only a question if its not filtered,
based on the assumption that a girl/boy with a smartphone whould want to continue owning one once married or have other internet access at his/her immediate disposal, then its absurd to think that it should not be a factor. the gedolim have said that its a issur chomur to own one or to have (unfiltered) internet access in your house, and its clear to all that a home with internet access and a home without are completely different, so whats the question?
if my assumption is not correct and after the chasuna he/she does not plan on having a iphone/acess to the internet at home, then the question is what does it show about the person. the fact that they purchased a iphone does not tell you so much. then one thing is clear during the time that they have internet it makes a difference in the person.
one last point in regards to what it tells you about a person having a personnel smartphone is definitely different to having access to the internet in their homes (usually their parents home).
Heavybrisker – Judging by your screen name you would probably say no even if it was filtered! Filtered internet has also been banned by those same Gedolim shelo letzoirech.
But the very fact that you post online, and from observations I have picked up from the content of your posts, it seems that you would be quite happy with filtered internet.
But remember, not everybody is like you. Many people come from much more openminded backgrounds, which for them it is very accepted – and not entering the debate about right/wrong, it would defintiely not be a turn off for the shidduch if both sides are holding at the same stage.
I was at a wedding the other night. The chosson’s grandmother couldn’t be there. Her daughter (the chosson’s aunt) used her smartphone to livestream the entire thing to her mother so she could participate in grandson’s simcha. You’d have a lot of trouble doing that with a kosher phone.
It seems that you think that open mindedness in the case of unfiltered internet is a maaleh. Any decent person should have filtered internet if they have smartphones or computers. It’s a case of being so openminded your brains fall out!
Back to the original question . . .
To those of you who think he shouldn’t reject a girl with a smartphone, why would you want to condemn her to a life with such a narrow-minded guy?
haifagirl/ivory – Nobody is denying (I hope) that there are major maalos involved in internet in general and smartphones specifically. However, only idiots deny the dangers of internet. Pointing out the numerous maalos will get rid of the terrible chisronois.
FYI – the point you brought about streaming videos live to people in faraway locations can be done on smartphones which have been filtered too. Even filtered totally to block browser.
Your question was if HE should reject her. Not if SHE should stick with him.
Bump!
Weather you would marry someone with an iPhone or not, keep in mind that if you do, you will LIKELY be marrying an iPhone, not a person!
Hashemisreading, I married someone with an iphone, and she ended up being an actual person.
Not all people with iphones are totally absorbed in them. Not even most people with iphones.
Meno: Really? well then you are one lucky person. But I think I can say that most people are definitely absorbed with their smartphones.
Ask yourself the following question: What’s the last thing you look at before you go to bed and the first thing you touch when you wake up in the morning?
Ooh that’s an easy one. Of course the phone! I set it by night, I let him know I’m up in the morning, otherwise he’ll continue to wreak havoc…
Then I’m off to Shule WITHOUT IT
Here’s a thought: The idea that people having a smartphone is something negative and maybe even “dangerous” is similar to the idea that people having a gun is the big issue that causes danger.
In the goyishe velt, gun control is supported by the left wing type thinkers and the opposition is on the right.
In the yeshivishe velt, the internet/smartphone “problem” is viewed as bigger of a deal the further to the right you go.
I would venture to say that 95% of you reading this are of the hardcore republican types who would in a flash say something like “Guns have nothing to do with the issue here. The problem is Islamic Terrorism. People who only want to kill us and will do whatever it takes. Guns are only a tool that some of them use. But most people know how to use guns properly, and they need to have them for their correct purpose…”
But a smartphone is different because chazal say…
Zev7, why can’t that argument be used for drugs as well?
The obvious answer being, drugs are addictive, and take control of you, rather than you controlling them. V’hochi nami…
zev – it is sad that you would believe that. i am not for guns, and i am strongly against smartphones and i have to tell you there is no crossover between them. Having a gun can be compared to riding a bike without a helmet, if you’d like. both are very physically dangerous practices that i also think of as stupid but a person can still go their whole life without getting hurt by either.
smartphones is a totally different kind of danger. And it isnt even worth getting into a conversation about it because people don’t tend to be honest on this subject but i dont believe (based on a bit of personal research) there are many people out there who havent stumbled or suffered in SOME way, be it pritzus or bittul zman.
The two are not even comparable and your attitude that it is not really a “problem” sounds very illustrative of someone who would like it not to be.
Chazal tell us even reading the wrong books is dangerous and assur.
shaichus?
i think that the whole smartphone business is totally nuts!! when i leave school, the 1st thing e/o takes out is their phone!!!! they dont know how to talk or be social… how can such a person get married and communicate with his/her spouse??
Chazal tell us even reading the wrong books is dangerous and assur.
shaichus?
If reading the wrong books is dangerous and assur, al achus kama vkama having unfiltered internet is dangerous and assur.
Some of what I wrote the last time this topic came up (http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/get-rid-of-smart-phone):
I think that there are several different issues here.
The first one is having unfiltered internet, with full access to all the shmutz in the world. This is simply and unequivocally assur. The Gedolim and venerated Poskim of our generation (R’ Shteinman, R’ Vozner, R’ Chaim, R’ Nissin Karelitz, R’ Moshe Shternbuch, to name a few) have said so time and time again, and I have yet to hear a single dissenting opinion. (see: http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/285798/maran-harav-shteinman-iphone-users-are-pasul-leidus.html, http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/207517/r-kanievsky-on-accepting-eidus-from-an-iphone-user.html )
Secondly, when it comes to something that is assur, saying “I need it for my business” simply will not change anything. Business is not an excuse for any issurim; be they chillul shabbos, dishonesty, or unfiltered internet. Assur is assur. Period.
Then there is a separate issue: Having a smartphone, with properly filtered internet, for business needs. While this may not be ideal, it is indeed often necessary in today’s world. And when it comes to ideals, not issurim, there is much more room to accommodate practical necessities.
(http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/get-rid-of-smart-phone/page/3#post-565151)
Several weeks ago, I was at a chasunah where the mesader kiddushin, a rosh yeshiva from Teaneck, asked the eidim if they have unfiltered internet on their phones, in their homes, or by their offices. One of them admitted that he did, and the Rosh Yeshiva did not allow him to be an eid – they had to get somebody else.
(http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/get-rid-of-smart-phone/page/3#post-565293)
Another note on the severity on the issue at hand: In his book “Teach Them Diligently”, R’ Berel Wein quotes R’ Yaakov Kamenetsky as telling him “Only for pornography and theft are you allowed to expel a student” (page 126).
(http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/get-rid-of-smart-phone/page/3#post-565667)
Barry:
“I’m curious if those opposing smartphones understand that it is nothing more than a computer?”
And do those opposing rifles understand that it is essentially the same as a BB gun? Or do they correctly realize that small technical differences can drastically change the inherent danger of an item?
While a smartphone has most of the same issues as a computer (viewing inappropriate content, wasting time, etc) the fact that it is always with its owner, and that it is far easier to use without anybody seeing what one is up to, make those issues far more potent.
(http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/get-rid-of-smart-phone#post-564438)
charliehall:
“If you can’t be trusted to avoid the porn and gambling sites, by all means donate your smartphone to a shelter for victims of abuse and stay off the internet.”
Tell me, do you think the issur of yichud is only for those who “can’t be trusted” to control themselves? Or do we see that Chazal realized (quite accurately, if I may say so) that this is an issue that everybody struggles with, and gedarim must be set in place for everyone? We cannot bury our heads in the sand – this s a very real issue that many, many frum people struggle with.
(http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/get-rid-of-smart-phone/page/2#post-564768)
How can anyone deny that a couple that both have smartphones will GENERALLY have more shalom bayis issues than a couple that has regular phones?! I seriously cant fathom how people think its the same as a computer?! Its the mekor of tumah IN YOUR POCKET!!
I have a daughter in Shidduchim and we recently were looking in to a boy for her. When we found out that the family has a TV my daughter automatically nixed it. Then the next boy that came up has an iPhone and my daughter was totally fine with that. I can’t understand it! This boy has his own personal TV that goes with him wherever he goes! how could that be better than a TV in the living room?!?!
As the parent, you should nix it.
As the person getting married, SHE has a right to nix it.
to tajik: absolutely you should say no, it shows a lack of yiras shmoyaim.
the force is loose so…
I grew up with a TV in my house. I currently have a smartphone, but no TV. There is no question that I wasted much more time watching TV growing up than I currently do on my phone. Not sure if I can give a good explanation as to why that is so, but it’s the truth.
i’ll agree with darth. Smartphones are much more addicting- not in regard to viewing inappropriate material, but in regard to turning into a person who spends his whole life on whatsapp, etc. and speaking to siri instead of actual people (e.g. your spouse).
People forget that in a face-to-face conversation the person you are speaking to has k’dimah over your phone.
(i doubt that’s what you meant, but i’ll be dan you l’kaf zchus)
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