Siyum Hashas on eBay controversy….

What will you say if the auction does complete tomorrow?

I would not know if it was legit, or if the “buyer” and seller will agree to back out, with no negative consequences for trying to get someone to outbid the “buyer”.

Firstly, you said that it would not complete. So my question is what will you say if you end up being wrong.

Secondly, as explained before allowing the auction to go through is a massive risk for a seller who might end up with a highest bidder who is genuine. Why would any rational person take such a risk? It would be both a big avla and a risk of losing $750.

Firstly, eBay’s rules cannot amend or change any direct legal contractual agreements between two parties.

That makes no sense. EBay’s rules precluded that contract from being effective.

DaasYochid if you let me into your house only as long as I do not make legal agreements with anyone and while I am there I enter into a legal agreement with someone does that make that legal agreement invalid? Only the law can affect the validity of contracts made between two parties, no matter what platform was used, legitimately or illegitimately.

I think what is being overlooked by both ZD and DY is that eBay always intervenes in situations in which sellers wish to cancel for reasons that were never specified in the auction description.

Obvious examples are the seller gets nervous because he realizes the buyer is a new user with 0 feedback and has a history of nothing but trouble with such users. Further examples include where he does not like something about the buyer’s profile. However all of that is because there was nothing in the auction that specified those terms.

However:

1) It’s basic Contract Law that a seller is legally entitled to create Terms and Conditions for his auction. Buyers who do not comply with those Terms and Conditions cannot then complain to eBay when they voluntarily entered into a legal contract under those Terms and Conditions.

2) eBay does not in any way claim that sellers cannot create Terms and Conditions

3) eBay does not attempt in any way to override auction Terms or Conditions.

4) It is basic Contract Law that eBay has no right whatsoever to override any Contract between two parties. What eBay will do if they feel that the Terms and Conditions are not appropriate and the auction has not yet concluded is to cancel it.

5) eBay can only make a contract with each party separately for terms of listing and if there is any breach they can take action against them but as above eBay will never protect a buyer who knowingly entered into a Contract with Terms and Conditions and then tries after the fact to breach those Terms and Conditions.

First off ZD, respect where it’s due. If you have sold millions of dollars on eBay you have a lot of practical experience that I do not. However, what’s key here is to have a clear understanding of terms.

You can always make your own terms, However those terms cannot be against ebay rules

for example you cannot say, I only accept cash (ebay rules only allow paypal for shipped items)

The word cannot is true in the sense that as eBay write:

Make sure your listing follows these guidelines. If it doesn’t, it may be removed, and you may be subject to a range of other actions, including limits of your buying and selling privileges and suspension of your account.

So, your cash example is a very useful one. Contractually if an auction concludes with a commitment to pay Cash only then legally that’s binding. However, if the parties actually complete the transaction that way they are subject to eBay countermeasures as described.

Obviously, your point about following rules is well made. Even if something’s legally binding as far as Contract law that won’t automatically protect the user from eBay sanctions for breaking policy. So, it’s clearly necessary to know eBay rules.

And you cannot say JEWS ONLY, discrimnation is against ebay rules

By the sound of it your experience is entirely with secular transactions and so you automatically assume that any differentiation would be discriminatory.

You have never for example sold the bentsching for the Daf Hayomi siyum Hashas at Atime’s Shas-a-thon (auctioned off on ebay). Refusing that to a non-Jew is not discrimination at all, even though it was not mentioned in any Terms and Conditions – it’s obviously a religious observance and obviously governed by religious rules that’s basic common sense and it’s the law too.

Dispute resolution , eBay is very specific about dispute resolutions, you have to accept their eBay resolution service.

Ebay’s dispute resolution has an option of professional arbitration. Professional arbitrators honor civil law which requires honoring all legally binding Contractual Terms. When those terms include arbitration clauses the professional arbitrator will honor them as will all Civil Courts by ruling that the parties to the contract have to get arbitration per their contract – in this case with a Beis Din.

BBB: I generally do not use eBay and I wondering if the bidding ad for the “bentching at the shas-a-thon” states that it may only be bid on by jews? Declining a bid is different then outright excluding groups of people (even if the item up for auction does not apply to them).

Religion by definition only applies to its members and limiting religious observances to its members is not discriminatory in any way, it’s normal, accepted, fully legal under Secular law, an everyday part of American life and protected by the Constitution.

if there are zero bids, it looks line a joke; showing a bid makes it look more real.

There is only one poster on here that seems to believe that the whole thing is a joke, that poster thinks that the bid is fake too. Which I believe suggests why it makes sense to focus on those who will not think it’s a joke and not lose them at the expense of people who won’t believe no matter what happens.

I’m referring to a fake buyer cancelling, not the seller cancelling.

True, DY, you clarified earlier that you were only skeptical about the genuineness of the bidder not of the seller and so I hear you.