sitting next to opposite gender on plane

s2021, That’s an interesting observation that you’d feel uncomfortable next to a Jewish guy, but not so much next to a non-Jewish guy. I think the issurim between a Jewish male and female are greater than between a non-Jewish male and Jewish female. Perhaps this sensitivity is a result of that.

Seating is the WORST part of flying. I feel my personal space definitely violated. The way guys next to you take up a seat and a half (right, the half occupying your territory), bumping, touching.. my name does not do well to describe my feelings. Sometimes, however, you’ll find a nice airline personnel willing to accommodate you. That’s zeeskeit!

I flew recently with a nursing baby and sat next to a young chassidish man. I was very uncomfortable and I think he was even more. Every time I nursed, it was clear he wanted to disappear. He had another woman on the other side of him so he was clearly in an awkward situation. I would have switched with him except that I really needed the aisle seat because I had a squirmy baby on my lap.

I always request an aisle seat, because I like to be able to get up and move around at my own convenience. It would not bother me to sit next to a woman, as I don’t find a need to use both armrests. I would switch if asked, as long as I get an aisle seat in return. (I also would not want to sit near families with babies or toddlers, but there’s not much one can do about that.)

Mother in Israel

Bottles for a plane!! (Geez)

Whenever we came across such a situation, we mentioned it as soon as we got on the plane and the steward(s)(ess) were very understanding and accomodated us. Sometimes by looking around you can fix it yourself. We fly El Al but on a trip in U.S.A. last year it was also taken care of very nicely, without a fuss.

Just be polite and ask!

I recently had a flight where I sat next to a mother (35 +/-) / daughter (14 +/-) and listened to how truly obnoxious teens can be. From the conversation, it was a single mom, carrear 1st, 2nd and always (except for skiing trips with teen), and all I could think was, Ashrenu, mah tov chelkenu!

(And what good kids I have) .

From my experinece, women hardly ever bother male co-travellers, so its not an issue for me to be seated next to a woman. If you don’t try and be chatty, you can fly for hours without a sound.

Also helps that my “geshtel” broadcasts lound and clear: married, frum, and not open to dialouge.

In 20 years of commuting to and from Brooklyn, Manhattan and NJ on the NYC subway, NJ Transit and Path, I have found it much easier (relaxing and enjoyable if such words could be used to describe a commute) to sit next to non jewish females than males of any religion. Frum females, especially married ones seem to be highly uncomfortable of males, of any color, race or religion and particularly frum males next to them. It appears that the proliferation of ipods, tablets etc have made people less aware of their surroundings and people are becoming less aware (concerned?) of who is sitting or standing next to them.

I flew to Israel alone recently so was able to accomodate others who needed to switch (families separated, etc.) and did so twice. But when the person next to me was asked to switch with a man who was sitting next to a mother who had to nurse during the flight I offered to swith b/c I thought I’d rather sit next to a woman and an infant than a man- I had visions of falling asleep and waking up with my head on his shoulder! However when I switched it wasn’t a mother with an infant it was a mother with a toddler so whenever she nursed I got kicked in the kidneys. And I got chewed up smushed cracker all over me and my pillow taken. Oh well. Hindsight is 20/20 and I would’ve much rather have sat next to the man but we all survived!

I think that was an excellent idea bringing your own mechitza. How clever and honest of him. In addition how kind and generous of him to give you his seat just because you asked. On the other hand, you didn’t realize that other people ask for the isle seat for the same reasons you do. That is something to think about.

I always make sure to not shower for a week before my flight, so that if a girl is sitting next to me, she won’t be interested.

But I usually have a whole row to myself anyway. Dunno why.

bpt – I wholeheartedly agree with your admonishment for Mother in Israel regarding the inappropriateness of her doing that in public.

Mayan – The wedding ring is only applicable for a woman. And even then, how would you know if it is a wedding ring or just stam a plain ring. I’m not sure how style of dress/loud colors is relevant to this point.

OK, SJS, I guess this must be a woman thing that men cannot understand.

But I will say this. There have been times that I am on the train and someone sits down next to me in attire that is, um, shal we say, not becoming of a lady, and since it is a free counrty, and she has the right to do and wear what she pleases, I simply get up and move elsewhere.

Don’t see how I could do that on a plane. (short of a parachute)

bpt, you haven’t seen those personal mechitzas they sell for flying? They cover your entire face! Works great 🙂

If I were flying and sitting next to a frum man, I would warn him that I would be nursing during the flight, and if that made him uncomfortable to make arrangements with the flight attendants.

SJS: And if the flight was full, and there were no available alternative seating, that would be tough nuggies on him, and you would nurse next to him?

I never thought I could be offended by a bunch of strangers on the internet, but this thread has proven me wrong. I read the responses to my post over an hour ago and am still walking around brooding about it, so I figure I better speak my mind.

Firstly, I’ll say that I am not one who nurses in public. On the contrary, I am very, very opposed to it. If my baby needs to eat in the mall, I’ll find myself a public bathroom and nurse there, no ifs, ands, or buts. If we’re in the park and she needs to eat, we all go home so I can nurse privately. Even in my own home, I don’t nurse in front of my older children, even though I’m always completely covered when I nurse. I go into my room and lock the door every time I have to nurse. Maybe the fact that I’m usually so makpid on this is the reason that I took everyone’s comments so hard.

“MIA –

Um, I know its a free country, but that was really beyond reasonable. Could you not have gone to the restroom? I know, its your right to do so, and most likely you wore a coverup, but still, very unexpected from one us. “

Very unexpected? Every single frum woman I have spoken to about this sits in her seat and nurses on the plane. The restroom on a plane is not an option like the restroom in a mall. Firstly, the smell in there is usually terrible due to lack of appropriate ventilation. I know there are women who feel feeding in the bathroom is not fair to the baby, and as I mentioned before, I’m not one of those. But I can’t put either one of us through sitting in there for 20 minutes when it smells like that.

Secondly, there aren’t enough bathrooms on the plane for me to occupy one for a 20-minute feeding. There are always lines for the bathroom and it would be unfair to everyone to do that. And the incessant knocking on the door would be very disturbing.

I am always completely covered when I nurse. There is nothing showing that would make anyone uncomfortable. I do understand that it can make someone uncomfortable just to know that I’m nursing, and that’s why in most situations I make sure to nurse privately. The plane is one of those situations when there really is no other option. And that’s why if you take a survey, you’ll find that even frum women generally stay in their seat to nurse when on a plane.

And Sac, not all babies can take bottles. I’m not opposed to bottle feeding in general, but this is a baby with a chronic medical condition which makes it impossible for her to eat formula.

what do i care who sits near me?!

whomever wants to sit next to me is welcome too!

i am uncofortable when woman nurse in public, idk maybe its just me….!?!

“blankets can cover up everything – if hold baby in arm whole time, he needn’t know when baby is nursing or not, and he definitely doesn’t see a thing. “

You’re right that he didn’t see a thing, but when the baby’s head disappears under the blanket, it’s not hard to figure out what’s going on. This was not a newborn so the rest of the time she was sitting straight up on my lap without the blanket covering her.

“So I am not going to criticize it, but if you won’t wear a slit skirt (slit below knee), then you probably shouldn’t be nursing in public. “

I don’t wear slits, jean skirts, or anything else on your list, and I agree with you that I shouldn’t be nursing in public. But what is the other option on the plane? I couldn’t starve the child for 12 hours either, and as I said, there was no option for her other than nursing.

I’m completely with Mother in Israel on this one. Although I try to avoid nursing in public, as it often makes people uncomfortable, and I believe it is spoken about in Chazal as being inappropriate (although not assur). I have absolutely no problem nursing on a plane (especially a long flight such as from E”Y). I am a very experienced nursing mother, and I still would have trouble nursing my baby in the tiny airplane bathrooms, in addition to all the previous points mentioned regarding smell, germs, and occupying the bathroom for an extended period of time. Additionally, most babies need to nurse during take off and landing, a time when you are not even allowed to be in the bathroom! (Unless you would prefer my baby screaming and thrashing rather then nursing quietly and privately in my lap!)

popa_bar_abba — I don’t understand your post at all. How are you comparing issues involving exposing oneself (such as the slit, bare calf issue), to nursing? Obviously we are talking about being completely covered. You only know I am nursing because you can deduce it, not because you see anything inappropriate. And I am sitting in my own seat — not parading in public! Personally I can nurse completely covered without even a blanket/ nursing cover up, but I use one anyone just to be absolutely sure I am not in any way exposed. I really do not understand the lack of tznius in this issue, as long as one goes about it in a tzniusdik way! (I do try to ask for a window seat so I am at most making one person uncomfortable!)

Sac — Many babies do not take bottles for various reasons. Additionally, a mother who is nursing exclusively or mainly cannot simply skip a few feeding without physical consequences — and I assume you would be just as uncomfortable with a woman expressing milk as with her nursing!

bpt — I’m surprised you find this unexpected, as to the best of my knowledge all the frum women I know who nurse do so on planes, and I travel in pretty “yeshivish/ chareidi” circles. I would have a problem with any picture of myself being randomly taken and posted on the internet, but I would not be any more upset because I had a blanket over my body (in a picture you may not even be able to tell I’m nursing, as you didn’t see me holding the baby before!) Many people on planes sit with blankets up to their chin!

i also always ask for window seat and keep myself covered. i was once holding my newborn in baby sling, and someone started shouting at me – turns out they thought i was nursing my baby. people cannot see when i am and when i’m not nursing; they’re offended cuz they think they know what the baby is doing – but they do not see a thing!

and quite honestly, for many babies, there is no other choice.

MODS please, direction has turned a bit to the south, you know what to do.

“apushatayid: Why do you find it more comfortable to sit next to gentile females than next to gentile males?”

They tend to be more civilised when compared to their male counterparts.

Of course, another frum man to discuss the parsha with is the ultimate seat mate, but doesn’t happen often.

Grandmaster,

Pretty weird thing to tell someone. He does not have a Yetzer Hara now to sit near a woman in a couple of months, unless you are calling him a Rasha. Besides, I doubt he has a “Yetzer Hara” to sit near a woman in the first place.