Simchas Torah

@Toi there is a big suggestion box in the back of the room.

The hakofos (First with the Four Species and then with The Writ.) Is symbolic of our unity surrounding the Torah. And reaching a pinnacle with us carrying the Torah into our orbit.

After the events of this year, I will be staying by my seat. Do you have enough integrity to join or stop me?

@n0m, how about this? you will do what is best for you and everyone will do what is best for them. Wow what a novel concept

@ Syag & Moshe, I never tested positive and have antibody counts that is off the charts, I donated Covid Plasma six times and the blood banks keep calling me to donate again and again [ i am not going to get in this whole juvenile argument if you can get it twice because its pure speculation],
You want to stay in a underground bunker and shiver be my guest, but don’t try to shove your OPINION down my throat.
PS I plan to celebrate the Torah and life for hours and in close company

Syag,

Rav Aaron Glatt who is a Rav and head of infecteous diseases at a major Hospital (and the Rav many have looked towards for advice because he really is an expert) has said He was asked about such a case of someone who attended minyans who was positive and didn’t want to tell anyone because he was afraid they would throw him out of the minyan

Dear Syag,

I heard this wedding story with specific details.

Also young people vacationed while positive.

And people fled to Florida in March. And returned with the virus in June.

People go to simchos with the flu etc. Why does this surprise you?

Dear Syag,

You just accused yourself of what you accuse me. You have been talking to yourself this entire thread. Other posters read your post. And respond according to their own thoughts. Because they cannot read your mind. And they have their own.

Maybe you are not following who said what from the beginning. But I am. You are engaged in did-you-say/did-you-mean across multiple threads with multiple posters.

If someone is positive for covid, and goes around without telling anyone, they are likely considered a murderer.
If you went around and find out afterwards that you’re positive, dont be embarrassed to tell others that you were near about your positive test. It could save lives

“If someone is positive for covid, and goes around without telling anyone, they are likely considered a murderer.”

Would you say the same for other viral illnesses such as the flu?

You’re obviously too busy typing to read the posts you’re responding to

@Zahavsdad, yep and I plan to dancing wildly with all my fellow mispallim to that song.
BTW the words are kol yisroel not kol bnei yisroel.
PS if you feel the urge to sit home on simchas torah and sing aycha yoshva bodah no one is stopping you

* bodud, it was a typo

Believe it or not, there are people who really are afraid to get sick, but would go to shul, for example, if other people took it seriously.

If you are of the opinion that masks and distancing are unnecessary, what gives you the right to impose your opinion on other people. You are choosing to ignore public health guidelines at their expense.

This superficially libertarian “live and let live” attitude in this context ignores the fact that your choices impact other people. It’s not like sky diving where you assume the risk. You are forcing other people to choose between assuming your risk, or in the alternative, to avoid behavior they have every right to engage in.

“There are plenty of good reasons not to wear a mask that would not effect others. (Recently recovered and antibodies, tested negative a few days before and haven’t been anywhere, plan to maintain a six foot distance etc.) If a shul requires masks then you must wear a mask. If they don’t then one should not be forced to wear one. And if that makes some feel uncomfortable they can either go around asking people why they aren’t wearing it to determine if it’s safe or not take the risk and find another shul.”
Exactly my point, There is a shul in my neighborhood that is outdoor only with six foot distance and everyone must wear masks and gloves and bring own siddur, down the block is a shul that is operating normal. No one is forcing anyone to go anyplace, its ones choice.
Can I get Corona in spite of my having a high antibody count? who knows, but I can also drive down the highway and get hit head on by an 18 wheeler

Ch”v. Edited

2scents, 100% yes! If someone has the flu and mixes with other people that person is a rotzeach. I’m surprised you had to ask that question thinking it was a point to prove your argument. Pshita

I can’t speak for others, but my mother taught me when I was 4 years old not to be near strangers when I’m sick. It’s common sense. I’m shocked to see adults who don’t know better in this age of information. Where does this come from?

“2scents, 100% yes! If someone has the flu and mixes with other people that person is a rotzeach. I’m surprised you had to ask that question thinking it was a point to prove your argument. Pshita”

Shimon,

I was just curious to see if people have this sentiment about calling someone a killer only if they are sick with the Covid19 virus or also with other viruses.

I was not trying to make a point.

@commonsaychel
I agree with you 100% and I’m doing the same as you on simchas Torah, I’m going to dance the best this year.

Proud Repubican: You may discover motzi yom tov that most hospital have strict rules about dancing in the ER and that even where it is allowed, the tubes from the ventilators make it difficult to do anything but the most simple type of steps like a mitzvah tanz. important to know since both you and others are exposed to higher risk of infection when engaged in vigorous dancing w/o wearing a mask. Perhaps we will see you sometime on “Dancing with the Covid Stars”.

Syag, what is the difference between supermarkets and any other place? Either way, according to your logic, you are highly unlikely to infect anyone, so why ever wear a mask?

The problem with going maskless is that even if you are correct that won’t be reinfected and won’t infect others, unless someone knows you or you wear a sign that announces you as a covid survivor, other people see you as yet another maskless person. They can’t separate you from all the other people who rationalize without evidence that the frum world has herd immunity; or who get deeply scientific and argue that if there was no mass outbreak over the last three months, then obviously it’s over; or who cite various third hand reports of rav such and such who told someone the mageifa is over; or because deblasio and cuomo are untrustworthy idiots anyway. It becomes a self reinforcing cycle of communal complacency and includes people who can and probably will spread the virus. I know plenty of people who do not have antibodies but do not wear masks because no one else is, so (as they explain) obviously one or more of the above theories are correct. They do not differentiate between venues except maybe to the extent that some stores insist that customers wear masks.

People who are concerned about getting infected are then faced with the unfair choice of taking additional risk when they go to public places or alternatively of not participating in something they have every right to participate in because no one else is taking precautions.

It is hyperbolic to say people with antibodies are murderers for going maskless. At the same time, they are contributing to an environment that unnecessarily increases the chances that people will die and/or that unfairly keeps people in lock down to avoid other people. What gives someone the right to prevent someone else from going to shul or to work. Contrary to what is being promoted on these message boards, it’s not at all an exercise of personal freedom. It’s an aggressive act that prevents someone else from acting freely. It’s not like drinking cholov stam because you hold cholov stam is ok. It’s like pouring your cholov stam in the communal vat of cholov yisroel milk because you hold it’s ok.

What I have a hard time understanding is that much of these debates are over masks. It’s uncomfortable, but wearing one is not exactly mesiras nefesh.

se2015 – the difference between supermarkets and other places is that it is a place that is difficult for high risk people to avoid and any place that they are not able to easily avoid is a place to practice extra caution. If you know you will be around high risk people, you have an obligation to take as many precautions as possible/needed.

People deciding that anyone without a mask is irresponsible is their problem. I have to say I am tired of wearing masks only so that people don’t have to have a nervous breakdown. I don’t mind wearing one to keep a place germ free, but to wear one because you are hyper sensitive in a way that I have not found backed by science is not fair. I will ALWAYS wear a mask in places where people cannot easily avoid so they can have minimal chance of getting sick. But it is not responsible for them to go to places where they do not need to be if they are guarding their health. It is their responsibility to avoid places where people are gathering. If they are at risk and chose to go to places like that, I am not sure how that is anyone elses responsibility.

I hear what you are saying in regard to people not wearing masks and therefore making other people at risk by making the environment unsafe for them. I am not sure that is true. And I am pretty sure your illustration is off. They are at risk because this virus is unpredictable, not because of me. And if they are at risk, they have no business being inside a shul without proper protection. I liken it to the difference between saying classmates of a child with peanut allergies should not eat peanuts in school. But it is not appropriate to say nobody anywhere should ever eat peanuts in shul in case a person with allergies walks in one day. If you are at risk, it is your job to be careful. And everyone who cross paths with you needs to be careful as well. And that includes every person who enters a store, bank, your building or office. But to say every joe schmo needs to wear masks everywhere is baseless. I don’t mind going an extra mile, but you are wrong to expect people to cater to overinflated standards, and to call them murderers when they don’t.

P.S. Lest it not be clear – I am in complete disagreement with Common Saychels self centered approach.