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Rav Moshe writes that a yirei shmayim should only use Cholov Yisroel and not stam.
No, he uses the term Ba’al Nefesh, not Yorei Shamayim. His son, R’ Dovid, drinks any milk with a hechsher on it.
Pride of the Farm is by far the best milk. It is produced by Kreider Farms (a family-owned farm) in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. No one seems to be able to duplicate their process. Basically their secret (which is not so secret–you can go on their website and see what they are all about)is that after the milk is pasteurized it is chilled to a temperature of 33 degrees in 8 minutes. Also the cows are milked more often than on regular farms (the cows prefer that) and the cows are treated with TLC which produces better milk. The Star-K has a mashgiach who is on the farm and the milk is sold in different parts of Pennsylvania, Baltimore, Washington and Lakewood. I don’t think that they want to sell any further out (cows can just produce so much and not more!). Move to one of the above-mentioned areas and you will be able to have delicious cholov yisroel milk that stays fresh for longer than any of the New York milks. I know–we go through an average of 10 half gallons of milk a week. You can watch the cows in action on their website and when you come to Lancaster (chol hamoed is a good time) you can take a tour of their farm. By the way, their eggs are also delicious!
A baal nefesh only uses CY, per Rav Moshe, since there is a tremendous spiritual benefit to a baal nefesh’s neshoma by exclusively using Cholov Yisroel.
(Thanks for the correction.)
And many posters have said here that they have no spoilage issues with CY. It is a store specific problem. Buy from stores with good refrigeration practices.
Spoiled CAN’T harm you!!!! Yogurt and lebens are made out spoiled milk!!!
Golden Flow, by far, remains the freshest CY milk (imho).
1. Spoiled milk is not the same as yogurt or leben. Spoiled milk is regarded in medicine as a form of food poisoning. Don’t drink it.
EDITED
Helpful, so you’re saying that R’ Dovid Feinstein is not a baal nefesh?
Feif Un:
1. Rav Dovid does not eat CS.
2. Even if Rav Dovid did, you might have a kasha for R. Dovid. It does not change the fact that Rav Moshe wrote in his teshuva that a baal nefesh does not eat CS.
myfriend – don’t put words into a posek’s mouth; there is a huge difference between suggesting the use of what is considered CY, and forbidding CS.
And the vast majority of poskim follow Rav Moshe and hold that CS in America is 100% kosher; anything else is optional.
Shlomo Zalman! not exactly poison. This is the western throw away society mindset. As posted elsewhere, spoiled milk is just milk on its way to the next step. When unmanaged, is smells and tastes bad and might have some nasty bacteria in it. In poorer society, they just add something to add a better flavor, and then cook it to kill the unfriendly bacteria. The protein changes some, but it is too precious to toss in some places and times. Think spicy curd kugel.What do you think Little Miss Muffet was eating?
Think spicy curd kugel.What do you think Little Miss Muffet was eating?
Cottage cheese. It was not spoiled milk. It was milk that had the solids (curds) and liquids (whey)separate frome ach other.
I dont want spicy curd kugal in my coffee even if it’s not food poisioning.
I can’t help wondering if only CY milk gets spoiled. Can anybody share their exp. with CS?
Cottage cheese is spoiled milk!
deizezooger:
That is correct. Chalav stam lasts for several weeks after you open it.
“we have both cholov yisroel and cholov stam in my house
there is no difference in how long they last
both last for weeks”
WOW!!! The Lechem HaPanim only had to last 9 days.
Nissim Geluim
Only those who Mamash have miracles in their homes get to be moderators.
I always wondered how you can tell when sour cream goes bad. Does it go sweet? 🙂
The Wolf
Cottage cheese is milk that has separated into its two main components. I have had milk spoil and I have had milk turn into cottage cheese in my fridge, but NOT smell or taste spoiled at ALL. Spoiled milk smells like vomit. Cottage cheese does not.
You will know it when you see it.
Nobody wants my recipe?
Waiting to hear about spoiled CS. Never happend? Realy?
I was always told that R’ Moshe gave the heter of Chalav Stam being Ok when there was nothing else. Now a lot of people just adopted the ‘minhag’ cause .. why not? If it is OK for R’ Moshe it is Ok for me?!
Besides the fact that CS milk lasts longer sounds like there must be extra stuff in tehre possibly preservatives or other not such good stuff kosher is usually most natural etc…
When I was growing up, the CY milk went straight to the freezer. We didn’t have problems with its spoiling since the milk that we would be drinking that day had been defrosting in the refrigerator overnight. Freezing milk changes its flavor, but that was what I was used to. Frozen milk is also different in texture (more watery like a low fat milk).
Golden Flow is of reasonable quality, but it does make a difference as to who you buy it from.
One of the best ways to tell if milk is turning is to pour some into hot coffee. It will start curdling before it starts to taste off.
If your family is big enough, you might want to go the trouble to “ultra pasteurize” the CY milk from the store by simmering it in a pot. You can then use those gallon freezer bags to store it.
Here’s my theory to explain why many have the preceptipn that CS lasts longer than CY. The people who buy CS usually buy it from supermarkets and those who buy CY get it at grocery stores. The drivers who deliver to grocery stores have many smaller deliveries and being that they have less time per delivery (sometimes delivery is before the store is even opened) the milk may not be under constant refrigeration. Supermarkets generally require the driver to actually deliver the milk to their refrigerator and sometimes the shelves are stocked by manufacturer’s employees and not store employees.
Grocery stores and supermarkets have completely different business models and my experiance with kosher supermarkets is that they are often run like supergroceries
In the kosher suppermarket I shop the delivery man takes it straight to the fridge. never had a problam.
8 years later; still no gallon containers of CY.
Anyone have a plausible reason why?
The cost of gallon containers would probably be cheaper for families.I’ve seen them. They’re not too common though.
CVS in Flatbush (Nostrand and Kings Hwy) has gallon sized, full fat (red) Cholov Yisroel milk in closed refrigerators.
I think the price of gallon size milk is regulated so the companies sell half-gallon milk instead so that they have control over pricing.
We’ve never bought anything but gallons, never been a problem finding them in chicago.
Gallon sized CS milk ranges from $2.99 to over $4.00 a gallon.
The price varies from store to store.
Doesn’t seem to be much regulation.Nobody is claiming that CS is treif. The only ones making a controversial claim here are the ones saying (in Reb Moshe’s name) that there’s no benefit at all to drinking Chalav Yisroel.
Back to the OP, CS definitely lasts longer. It’s really annoying. It’s not really a financial strain, it just requires you to buy smaller quantities and go to the store more often.
Oops just realized this is an ancient thread after posting…
So drink chalav stam.
Seems strange that only a CVS would have gallon containers of CY milk.
There must be at least 50 haimish groceries, fruit stores, and other outlets in the vicinity.
Are these stores declining to sell those gallon containers?November 8, 2010 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm#708294REPLY
arcParticipant
As has been mentioned POF is a Maryland company they probably dont come down to NY.Golden Flow is the best of the cholov Yisroel companies.
Just because R’ Moshe was matir all milk doesnt mean you dont get more schar
———————–
“”and just because your ruv was matir for you to be online blogging in the coffee room , doesnt mean you wont get more schar if you didnt blog! So why are u blogging.Pride of the farm does something to their milk that makes it last longer than any other cholov yisroel milk idk what they do though (someone told me that)!!!!!!
I’m in LA and sometimes go to Ralphs super arles even tho the chalav yisroel milk is $2 more it lasts better. I also hate that own brands make a date 3 weeks out and after one week it’s ddefinitely bad. For this reason I never buy a certain brand unless it was put on the shelf within 2 days. I like pride of farm ait lasts longer. There’s one I don’t like but wouldn’t slam it here
Ralphs supermarket
Why isn’t Pride of the Farm sold in America’s biggest kosher market – New York?
The problem that started this topic would disappear if there were powdered CY milk. Why doesn’t this product exist?
I am not makpid on being a Ba’al Nefesh. I enjoy my not spoiled CS at half the price of CY.
YWN actually posted a pretty good article, “An Inside Look At Cholov Yisroel” in Sept. 2009.
Several authorities confirmed a spoilage problem, and blamed it on ““poor handling of the milk both in transportation and in storage in supermarkets.”Obvious questions are; Why have these problems been allowed to exist in a product as crucial as milk?
How can a small grocery or bodega keep their milk fresh while stores selling CY have
problems?How did this thread get reawakened from 2010?
DovidBT: Powdered CY milk was tried about 20 years ago. It did not sell well and has rarely been tried again.
Powdered CY milk was tried about 20 years ago. It did not sell well and has rarely been tried again.
That’s strange. Every grocery store I’ve seen has a good supply of kosher Cholov Stam powdered milk. It must sell adequately, or the stores wouldn’t have it on the shelves.
Do people use powdered milk instead of liquid milk?
DovidBT: CS is not CY. I was working in 2 different kosher grocery stores at the time and the CY product never moved. I remember some CS powdered milk from years ago and I personally thought the taste was not like real milk. I have not bought such a product in years.
If you mix powdered milk with milk instead of water, you get milk². This is actually useful for some recipes.
A search of the WWW has found that Breadberry on 60th street and 17th Avenue does sell Haddar Milk powder (CY) for 6.69 for a 10 oz canister. I do not know how much milk it makes. it is also available at Amazon. Based on what I see a three pack at Amazon is $31.99 and the instructions are “Use one cup Haddar Milk Powder in a container add 3 3/4 cups water and milk powder, one quart milk.”. Doesn’t sound very economical to me.
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