Siamese Twins

Ask your LOR.

i highly doubt that the poster wants an answer

i think its pretty clear he is interested in a discussion

Mod – i agree with you, so too all other halachic/hashkafa questions that are asked here, are not asked to get an answer, because not one person says the same thing, its amazing!

Wolf:

A Godol or Posek isn’t consulted for a theoretical halachic issue, which would be a matter of learning not an issue at hand, and thus can be discussed in the CR. A Posek obviously should be consulted – and followed – for an actual shaila of a practical issue at handing needing a determination.

I would be surprised if you mistakenly thought the OP had an actual case that he was presenting to the CR for a final determination.

That’s assuming both can’t survive attached.

Are you only allowed to kill a rodef? What is someone is going to chop off your feet and hands, can you kill him if that is the only way to stop him?

What if he is going to be attached to you forever?

This was actually dealt with by R. Moshe Feinstien, I think. I recall coming across a Teshuva when studying this case in a Criminal Law class. Its a classic question that gets focussed on by many legal systems.

I will try to find the Teshuva today.

Which one would be the Rodef?

Popa

It is mutar to do self defense even if in the process you may have to kill the person.

fascinating article

especially the story of Dr. Koop, the surgeon general

aries

siamese twins is a general condition which has a huge range of individual circumstances, every case is different

MOD 80, well then if every case is different, that is your answer in a nutshell. What is the discussion about? Every case is different and each case has to be looked at and decided on its own merits. Neither a doctor nor a Rav can make a blanket judgment. Everything depends on which organs are involved and what the chances are for each twin.

Each case is different, each physical connection is different, and each surgery is different. So it is a different shailah every time.

When one conjoined twin dies (if natural causes), the other may die as well. This is what reportedly happened with the famous “Siamese” twins Chang and Eng (who were not Siamese, BTW), for whom the condition of being conjoined was named. One of the brothers died, and several hours later, so did the surviving twin. This would tend to support the idea of the twin being a rodef, as the shared circulatory and respiratory system could have ramifications on both. I would think that if they were not joined except by a flap of cartilage, there would be no problem in halacha, with separating them.

Maybe Dr. 80 knows this. Its a medical question, not a halachic one.

When an (even adult) attached twin dies, is it generally a given the other twin will die shortly thereafter (i.e. within a day or less)?

The interesting point, I suppose, is that if the other can survive, is he then permanently attached to a dead person? For whatever reason they never surgically detached them all their lives, and there may be reason they can’t/won’t do it now.

In the link that huh? so kindly supplied, that was the case. My issues with that was that his Kasha on Reb Moshe is based on a his own brand new Pshat that he learned into the words of the Rambam. From the Gemara there is no basis for his explanation/Kasha. His own Heter is also a little puzzling. He wants to consider someone about to die as a Mechuyav Misa. How does that differ from someone that would without a doubt be killed by the enemy surrounding the village, where we aren’t allowed to give him up?

To add a little to the subject, the Gemara seems to say that the reason we would kill the fetus to save the mother is because it is not yet considered a full fledged person. The Rambam however, says that we kill it because it is Rodef. Rabbi Akiva Eigger asks this and says that although killing a fetus would not beget a Misas Beis Din, it is still a transgression of Retzicha. Therefore the Rambam says that we would kill it as a Rodef. Reb Moshe points out in another Teshuva that a Treifa has the same Halachic status as a fetus. Therefore in the case that was discussed then, the Baby A, who was definitely a Treifa, and a Rodef can be killed to spare the other one. Reb Moshe didn’t say this because, probably, in a different Teshuva, he answered the Rambam differently, that when they are co-existing side by side then neither is the Rodef. Whereas, however, it is still a fetus he is being the trouble maker. In the above link he seems to differentiate based on if it is depending on the other, and that makes it not be side by side.