shreds of decency

If you look at Washington as a reality TV show (albeit one with an exceeding large budget and the theoretical ability to destroy all life on the planet if they were so inclined), it makes sense. Trump and Pelosi are doing wonder for the ratings. People may love them or hate, but they pay attention. As a reality show, American politics is a gigantic hit.

I suspect in the privacy of their homes, among friends and families, they are quite normal, decent people, and perhaps somewhat boring. But boring doesn’t do well in ratings.

Seriously? You people on both sides are just as bad. Your own political parties can do no wrong and the other side can do no right. One side can say whatever they want. The other should be executed? Seriously? Either you believe in free speech or you don’t. The Malbim says on the possuk in Mishlei לב שרים ולב מלכים ביד ה that noone involved in politics has any bechira / free will. So all of this drivel is meaningless and a huge waste of time. Gut Shabbos.

I try not to think about it, cause its awkward to burst out laughing in public.

She should be lauded for symbolically showing what her political party is doing to the country. I’m surprised there haven’t been political cartoons with the speech transcript replaced with a map of the U.S.

“Read the rest of my posts’

(sure though those went up after mine)

” Show me one without his faults and I’ll vote for that guy over him”

Easy Pence. My question isnt geared to you personally. It is geared to the collective you ie republicans
(I didnt understand the rest of that post, it seems like some sort of haiku)

“Others may have the same position but only he has the ability to get the job done”
so are you nervous for 2024?

DY
“The Republicans tried that. His name was Mitt Romney. That didn’t work.”

so thats kind of my point.

Pence presumably has all the same positions as Trump claims to have. On immigration, Israel, etc. Many claim that they like Trump “DESPITE his despicable mannerisms.” So why settle ? nominate Pence* ! He is Trump without the despicable mannerisms .

I suspect that you* actually like Trump because of his mannerisms or to put it more delicatly , “gets the job done”
Romney just couldn’t win over the country just with ideas alone. But when combined with boorishness and imbecilic comments . THAT makes for a wining combination. THAT makes or a nominee you* can support

* I dont mean you personally I mean you as a party

Ubiq: Pence isn’t a candidate for President; so he can’t be voted for President.

KY

“Even if you found me someone with the ideas I wanted to see implemented in how to run this country, if he is personally a nice guy, the libs will guilt him into abandoning all of them.”

Yes I got it “Till big potty mouth Donald Trump came along. Yes that awful brash couldn’t care less about being nice and proper, two year old insulting personality? That’s exactly what is needed”

so you Don’t care that he is despicable, in fact you like him BECAUSE of that (partly)
Thus my question wasn’t geared to you. I am not at all confused by that position.

Joseph
“Ubiq: Pence isn’t a candidate for President; so he can’t be voted for President.”

first of all he can. But my point is are you sad that the party didnt dump Trump. Assuming you don;’t like Trump’s “despicable mannerisms.” ddo you wish the party dumped Trump for Pence , he is Trump’s (current, professed) beleifs without the despicable mannerism.

” I don’t believe there’s the ability for a write-in candidate in presidential elections, ”

Of course there is

“But at the end of the day I think it is more important to nominate an acceptable Republican who will win the general election rather than a more ideal candidate who will lose the general election.”

sure I get that.
But that is part of my question
why not nominate a republican who will win a general election (and lacks Trump’s “despicable mannerisms.”)
The option I can think of are
a. There is no such Republican
b. You don’t really mind his despicable mannerisms, and perhaps even like them (perhaps this is what will win the election as some other posters said/insinuated)

I resent the implication that Republicans are bad because all we can bring forth is trump with his atrocious mannerisms…. as if Democrats can bring forth anyone better.

Let’s see,
Warren is a bigger liar and has terrible ideas on everything.
Sanders is a socialist.
Biden sold out the security of the US and the world with Iran. He also has said questionable things about children but it could just be his awkward personality (which is not necessarily a sin).
Buttigieg is pro infanticide.
Yang plans to bankrupt the economy.
Klobucher is actually the best of the bunch but because she’s not terrible, she can’t get enough support.

“If you write in a candidate, you’re voting for him to be an ELECTOR; you’re not voting for him to be President”

It is of course more complicated than that. while it varies state to state .
some states require write in candidate to file paper work in which case of course the votes would count. Other states don’e even require that while some don’t allow write ins . electors can be chosen after the election so if Pence wins the popular vote in VT, NH, OR, WY , IA, Pa, NJ, RI DC, MS, AL , Additionally 32 other states (all but NV SD, NM, AR SC OK, La, HI) allow write ins if they preregister (which he can still do) He can handily win 490 to 48.

“Because that candidate you’re describing isn’t on the general election ballot for President, as a viable major party candidate”

youre dodging m yquestion.

Yes I said that. Are yo usaddened by that do you wish the Republican party nominated such a candidate

CA
“Mind you, even though I’m too young to remember Reagan, I’ve heard that he had the same brashness to stand up to the democrats”

He didint, though like Trump he had signs of dementia towards the end of his presidency (not as early as Trump)

“Most of the gop are a bunch of sissies”
right I hear you loud and clear. So you (agian not you personally) like Trump BECASUE of these attributes

Interjection
“I resent the implication that Republicans ”

You can resent the implication form today until tomorrow, several posters confirmed that they (the party) like Trump precisely because of his rudeness

Ubiq – no. He/we did not say we LIKE him for those qualities. He was pretty clear – those qualities make him effective in todays political climate. Don’t take the liberty of replacing *stuck with” with “like”.
Of thete was*an effective* candidate without those qualities then of course hed be the choice

Ca

“The gist of it is that “nice” Republicans wouldn’t stand a chance against the democrat attempts to paint him (or her) as a bigot, racist, wants to kill granny,”

Yep I got it . option b. Thats fine I get that

Syag
“Don’t take the liberty of replacing *stuck with” with “like”.”
in this context they are the same.

Put another way if it where up to you (and wouldnt create a civil war in the Republican party) say Trump called you and said Hey Syag/CA/Joseph/ KY Ive had enough of this, I’m dropping out and throwing my full support behind Pence, he of course in on board as is the entire Republican leadership , I just want your take . ie you get Trump’s (professed current) positions without the “despicable mannerisms” would you encourage him to do that or say no we need you to run.

My sense from all your responses (correct me if I’m wrong) is that you would NOT be happy with a candidate who was Trump without the “despicable mannerisms”
If you (ie the party, or you personally in a magical world where you decided this) had to choose between Trump, and say Pence .you would choose Trump over Pence because of the “despicable mannerisms”
this is closer to “like” than “stuck with” in my book

My take is Pence would be better than Trump.

CA

“I hope that clears it up”

It is quite clear, I never had any question about you position. I completely understand

@Ubiq,
I’m sorry if i miss any points in responding to your q, as i dont have time to follow the whole thread, i would also say that the little i saw form kluger was something i would agree with, I think he puts forth a very strong argument, however to say it in my own words..
I did not vote for trump, I couldnt stand the guy, and those who are his fans still irk me till today. However, with all the lying and everything else, He delivers. And his heart is in the right place.
I cannot say the same for any democrat, maybe they do have the right ideas, but if its ok to hand one mans earnings to another what does that say about you?
BUT YOU ASK ABOUT REPUBLICANS, and to that the answer is, I am not pro republican, I’m pro people who attempt to do the right thing, so show me who they are and i’ll vote. So you’ll offer cruz, pence, and romney [yes i meant that], The problem with that is they arent willing to get dirty in a fight, for whatever the reason. I think that its similar to a situation we had as Klal Yisroel, Lehavdil elef havdalos, With Yiftach, who was not the greatest of The Yidden [though surely he was great] yet chachomim saw that he had the ability to be the one to lead Klal Yisroel at that time, so they chose him. [CH”vsh, to even compare Yiftach to Trump, that isnt my intention, my intention is to show however that sometimes in a society, you take an effective leader over a ‘most virtuous’ one.] I therefore dont let silly mannerisms bother me, After all, manners are not the be all and end all of what a person is. Far from it.

👆

TDS at its peak

Jackk -“Trump has not delivered.
The only thing he has been successful in is his “mannerisms” .(Nice euphemism for not having a shred of being a decent human.) Also successful in dividing and disenfranchising over half the country.”

LOL.
STOP With the Liberal Lies!

From the WH.gov:
Trump Administration Accomplishments:

“Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since my election.
Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.
Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
Under my Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.
The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.
95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.
Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.
As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.
Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.
Record number of regulations eliminated.
Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.
Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.
My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.
Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.
We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.
Signed Right-To-Try legislation.
Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.
Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.
United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.
Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.
Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.
NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.
Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.
Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.
Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and nominated Judge Brett Kavanaugh.
Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.
Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.
Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.
Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.
Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.
Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.
Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.
Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.
Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.
We have begun BUILDING THE WALL. Republicans want STRONG BORDERS and NO CRIME. Democrats want OPEN BORDERS which equals MASSIVE CRIME.”

Without debating the merits and accuracy of all these lists of Trump’s “accomplishments”, many of us still have the question as to whether it would have been possible for a President to achieve most/all of this agenda without the vulgarity, bullying. lying etc. The typical answer is “well, is hasn’t been done before so maybe we need to have all this garbage to achieve some positive outcome”.

Funny, I often wonder the same things about some of your posts 😉

health, the US is not as healthy as you are with a National Debt of 23 1/4 Trillion, GDP 2.6 % nothing to write home about. Low unemployment might mean that people are not looking for work. Eliminating the mandate is no praise it means a reason to destroy the ACA. The president thinks he knows everything and gets rid of his advisers who disagree with him. He really has an inferiority complex with a narcisistic personal disorder.

Joseph, you can destroy your own documents but not the governments. This was a copy given personally to her, so, she can do with it what she wants even use it for asher yatzar paper.