Should we be medicating our kids?

Yeshivish:

Good point. Many of these kids should be medicated. And some should definitely not. Here’s the rub. Who ends up making decisions on this question? I am comfortable with an educator (providing that he/she has had some training about the subject matter) asking a question – this child needs to be evaluated and there needs to be a plan for how to handle the situation to maximize the child’s success in school. The professional makes the ultimate decision, not the school or its staff. When yeshivos threaten mothers to keep their kids at home until they are medicated, resulting in these mothers doing their best to push the pediatricians, we have kids who might not need medication getting it.

No teacher, rebbe, principal, or menahel should ever develop the treatment plan for a child. They need to be ready to create a learning environment that will benefit the child. This can be a huge challenge at times, and more yeshivos are taking keen interest in working to do this.

In short, medication is the answer to certain problems and not for others. Who is assessing the situation and making the intervention plan?

It’s interesting that the yeshivishe veldt has almost seamlessly adopted the modern/haskalah/gentile system of education with formal schooling, large classes, tests , grades, and an uncompromising need to “maximize the child’s success in school.” This capitulation to modern Western society norms is most surely not what the Torah had in mind. But it is what it is, the haskalah movement has won this battle hands down.

The result is that we are now chasing this non-Jewish ideal by way of turning our children into drug dependents. Maybe a re-evaluation of the entire system is in order.

The school system is the problem, not the kids.
No normal child should be expected to sit in a large room for 8 hours a day, listening to an adult talk. And yet, we consider this normal behavior.

There are many different learning styles and methods. Some kids are better visual learners, some are better auditory learners, etc… If minimal effort was put in to figure out which method works best for each child the number of kids on ADD meds would drop dramatically. There are definitely those who need and benefit tremendously from medication, but if a kid is struggling, the first approach should be to see if he/she needs a different learning style, not pump them with stimulants.

As a former child, I believe it should be the child’s decision.

YR -“In the yeshiva system, we currently medicate one out fo every 3-5 boys. Considering its dagers, isn’t it time we reconsider?”

You are severely misinformed!
From a website called ADDmedication:
From their MD:
“Stimulant treatment of ADHD appears to result in reduced alcohol and drug problems, not increased substance abuse.
Some ADHD youth and adults self medicate with substances to treat their ADHD and self esteem problems. Treating ADHD with medication may reduce this phenomenon.”

Health, that is not accurate because any substance prescribed by a doctor is considered medication, while any substance used to “self medicate” is considered to be abused, even if it has the same effect.

If a kid isn’t diseased, why give them drugs?

Misty:

You bring out a crucial point. It is too often that the use of meds for ADHD and its variants is with the purpose of molding the child to the school. And Shlomo Hamelech, in Mishlei tells us that this is opposite of what we should be doing – accommodating the chinuch to the child.

Having noted this, it is important that we remember that ADHD exists on a spectrum, with variations in symptoms and severity. Meds without other interventions is of minimal value. And there are cases in which going without meds is close to useless. There is an individual decision to make for each and every case. I recall a number of years ago when there were debates in our orthodox media, ADHD – pro- or anti- using medications. My reaction at that time was to laugh. It’s like pro or anti oil change. Either you need it or you don’t. It takes careful evaluation to know whether it is indicated or not, and this is also not with 100% consensus where to draw the line. Using meds without the real need is foolish, and actually caries some risk. These discussions about the general approach lack the needed individualized approach.

TLIK – You are missing her point! Misty & the OP are living in Utopia. They believe that there is No need to medicate anyone with ADHD. Time for them to get out of the Middle Ages.

I don’t know what goes on in the tri state area (which some posters mistake for the whole jewish world) but I have been working in schools and out for almost 2 decades with children with more severe ADD/HD. They only come my way because they are not able to manage in their classroom, peer groups, home life or a combination of those. I don’t see anyone “throwing medication” at these kids for an easy fix. USUALLY, and that means the most often scenario, we have to meet with the parents several times to convince them that if they choose not to medicate then they NEED to choose a different intervention. They need to understand that the damage done to a child who is unable to control his impulses even if it results in hurting friends, who is unable to concentrate even in conversation with peers, who struggles to follow a class even with supports in place, who is repeatedly yelled at or avoided by siblings because he is “always” breaking their stuff/ruining their game/telling their secrets/unwilling tofollow game rules or lose (let alone graciously)is tremendous and *avoidable*. I am not an advocate for meds, but I have experienced the daily suffering of many many children who are in emotional pain beyond your understanding due to the failure of the parents to administer either medications OR alternative SUCCESSFUL interventions.

The ones who wave the anti med flags on kids they never met seem to have their own personal med issues that they are either secretly justifying or hiding behind.

Syag, this discussion is not about the type of kids you mentioned. It’s about kids in mainstream yeshivas who are having medication thrown at them because they are not the top of their class and the school has no clue how to handle or properly educate them.

MODS: My main account (Yeshivishrockstar) seems to be heading to spam. I haven’t posted anything offensive nor broken the rules, so I am not sure why I am blocked.

Syag: Of course there are kids who should be medicated. But its hard to believe its on out of three to one out of five, which is the rate for boys in public schools nowadays, al achas vachas more in our yeshivos.

Syag, proponents of lobotomies also thought them necessary and called everyone who disagreed with them ignorant. Also, you’re using one of the standard nonsense arguments: I disagree with you; therefore, you must be uninformed or uneducated.

Syag – q out of five boys is the public school numbers. I’m scared to find out the real ones in Yeshiva. When I was in the Mir, around half the shiur had been prescribed meds at one point in their lives (including me.) That’s not normal.

And meds aren’t tools – they are masks. They may mask the symptoms enough to let you learn tools, but they are not tools.

@Health
First off I don’t really care if you believe me or not.
Secondly, I never said or implied that the yeshivas are dispensing meds on there own. If a yeshiva tells parents that their child must be evaluated or else he/she can’t come to school anymore I’ll bet you 99% of those kids end up on meds. I personally believe that alternative approaches should be attempted (if not exhausted) before pumping stimulants into a child/adolescent. Do you disagree?

Children need to be taught k’darko. My niece was bored to tears every day because she wasn’t challenged enough. She wanted to learn more but nope, need to stick with the rest of the class. Others are falling behind behind but they too must keep up with the rest of the class so they keep sinking since the next skill depends on what they have failed to learned previously. We have the technology for self paced mastery education…it’s about time we use it.
However, if there is an actual medical issue then the child needs medication. All of the technology and ideas in education won’t be able to mask a real medical condition

PuhLease:

A bit of correction is needed. Pharmacological solution is an option for many conditions and diseases in which there is a chemical substrate. Yet, there are times where even with this, there can be mind over matter. However, making general statements fails every time. Each case must be judged on its own merit. Some kids are resilient, and cope with difficulties, others are not and cannot. To the degree that the chemistry is the culprit, the meds will do the trick. What we need to recognize is that patterns of behavior develop as a result, and these may be incompatible with educational progress. That’s the role of therapy, aside from helping with those aspects of the condition that are not affected by the medication.

It should be unnecessary to stress that treatment with medications should only be performed by someone with proper training and expertise. For that reason, I am rather untrusting of the average non-psychiatrist physician regarding prescribing many of the medications intended to treat a mental health condition.

Am a pediatrician.
ADHD is significantly overdiagnosed. Many children who don’t need medications are medicated. Schools pressure parents, parents pressure doctors. Doctors will prescribe if they are pressured.

Yes there are children with actual ADHD who need the medication. But ADHD is often diagnosed in children who don’t have it. There can be something else going on. For example, sleep deprivation. Children need 10 hours sleep a night. If a child isn’t sleeping enough, their symptoms will look exactly like ADHD.

Letting kids run and work off extra energy in between lessons is helpful. Talk to the teachers to see if they will allow the child to run a lap/jump up and down after sitting for an hour. Stimulants are harmful, they are addictive, they do have side effects. They are often abused. They are in the same drug category as cocaine and methamphetamine.