Should the frum world create an alternative to “Footsteps” for OTD support

Haimy:

In the current system, Chassidish and Yeshivish, the emphasis has swayed in favor of the external trappings of Yiddishkeit, with markedly little attention to Emunoh, Ahavas Hashem, Yir’as Hashem, Avodas Hashem, etc. In concert with that, our children are not guided or taught to love Torah and Mitzvos. If this attraction is absent, then our children go through their youthful years being guided to robotically fulfill their mandates of going to yeshiva, shul, etc. We fail to provide an adequate role model for them. It’s not the talking during davening, but the diversion of attention from the precious tefiloh to the mundane issues of the idle chatter. Giving mussar on the talking issue misses the greater problem of viewing tefiloh as a necessary obstacle to overcome so as to continue on with one’s day. You get the gist.

It may be useful to create more safety nets to catch those who are disillusioned. But it fails to repair the ho-hum attitude about being a Yid, gifted with the Torah and 613 paths to become closer to HKB”H, with the opportunity to do with the continuing heritage from our Avos, Rebbeim, with HKB”H cheering us every step of the way.

While I daven for the complete failure of the worst missionary organization to affect Klal Yisroel, known as Footsteps, I wish for our ship to become puncture proof, not patched from leaking. We have rendered our community holey, instead of holy. טעמו וראו כי טוב ה. A true Torah lifestyle is great, and that cannot be a message of mussar, but an inviting message of hope. We have created a serious attitude problem. Just making replacement safety nets misses the real issue.

Joseph:

As usual, your blinders are glued on. Well, take them off.

Firstly, who would you suggest as Daas Torah for how to be mechanech my children at home?

Secondly, the children who have zero “sipuk” within the confines of Torah and Mitzvos are the ones who look elsewhere. Those kids are not snared by Footsteps, nor the internet, nor drugs, or any of the other scourges out there. The ones lacking the anchor in Torah are aimlessly wandering in search of something. They cannot settle on “sipuk”, because it does not exist elsewhere. So they opt for the gamut of worldly, physical pleasures. They go seeking for these. They have names. Drugs, movies, friendships that are worthy of disapproval, internet, Footsteps, and other such things. Happy kids do not shop elsewhere for nonsense, only empty kids who find no meaning in Yiddishkeit.

It’s not about Daas Torah or daas baalei batim.

What do you provide your own children?

Doesn’t Jew in the City do this kind of work?

Joseph, sorry but you made me laugh on tisah bov, your ignorant about Footstepes is huge, unfortunately they are a big organization and keep growing, just recently as past weekend, they had an event with over “300” members, some that still kept Shabbos, the week before, they had in 2011 just 200 members, and two staff members, just 6 years later now, they have 15 staff members and “1700” footsteps members!!השם ירחם

The Anti-Kiruv organization is more successful than you are willing to admit. Its alot more than 100.

Some of the people who go to that organization are “Alternative Lifestyle” and Im not sure how to deal with such people in a frum environment.

They’ve had so many suicides in their membership they they’ve earned the nickname Suicide Footsteps. They tend to heavily attract people with significant mental health problems.

Joseph, they’ve had suicides because the people who are coming to them are depressed from the way they were treated. Look at the most recent case – a girl died just a few weeks ago from an overdose. She had some learning disabilities and was kicked out of her school. Her parents were told by other schools that threats were made – if their daughter joined, other parents would pull their kids out! Is this really the world we live in? Is this how we should be looking at others? The principals and parents who were against her have her blood on their hands! They humiliated her, with their holier than thou attitude, and pushed her to leave Judaism, caused depression, and now she is dead. But I’m sure they think it was ok, because they didn’t want their daughter to have someone with a disability in the same school.
Footsteps exists because our system is broken. It takes children, our most prized possession, and tries to cram them into a mold. If they don’t fit, they are discarded, with no regard for their future.
Just another thing to mourn today.

In reply to the original post, since Project Makom already exists, why not use it instead of starting a new organization?

But I think the basic problem in getting support is the lack of unity among the many groups of Orthodox Jews. Whatever you choose as a basic level of observance, there will be arguments.

Footsteps is definitely more effective than 100 people over the last 12 years, I personally know at least 4 married women who joined, and I don’t even live in new York!

None of the women I know committed suicide, but I wouldn’t be surprised if depression was a factor.
I think we need to do some work on minimizing the stigma of mental illness in the frum community so those with depression don’t have to leave to feel accepted.

For those suggesting Project Makom, If you check the website it seems to be a little outdated and I havent heard of many events lately. It started with a bang and seems to have fizzled. I dont know why or the specifics, If there are no events and little help like the Anti-kiruv organization gives then it is doomed to fail

The cost is not in the millions (Maybe over a period of many years)

You dont need a Brownstone in Brooklyn, you can rent a non-decript office in a non-chassidic part of Brooklyn for about $10,000 a month (Privacy needs to be important so a non-jewish area would be better)

You need 3 or 4 staff members to start, A secretary, Social Worker and a Rabbinical Advisor and a place you can rent (If if the office is not big enough) for group events once a week or one a month.

You can do for about $400,000 a year and you can combine the Social Worker and Secretary at least at first to save some funds. You also might be able to get some rooms at some shuls for free or discounted also to save some funds

ZD
“It started with a bang and seems to have fizzled. I dont know why or the specifics, ”

It is because most chassidim dont view Modern orthodox as a lighter form of Judaism, they are raised to believe it is all or nothing.

So if a chassid is going to throw away his upbringing, ie go to college, what is the point in still keeping some restrictions, he isnt going to be Religous anyway, (since he is going to college, maybe not wearing a shtreimel) he may as well go all the way.

It would eb like asking a OTD from the Yeshivish community “why arent you at least reform?”

OF course not all feel this way, but many if not most do.

JITC/Allison:

I think it’s great that you jumped into this dialog. It’s nice to have a primary source represented here. The discussions usually involve second- and third-hand information.

I’m curious why the Project Makom team seems to consist only of women. Do you think that’s a limiting factor for men who may be looking for a different halachic derech?

Glad to be here 🙂 We have never gotten feedback that our female staff made anyone feel limited. We didn’t davka try to only hire women. Although because our entire staff is part time, I don’t know how easy it would be for us to find a man to work for us. Generally, they are more responsible for the bread winning in the family, whereas women can work p/t and care for their children. be”H as we grow and can offer competitive f/t salaries, we’d be happy to add male staff members too. Our director of social services deals with the OTD crowd a lot. She started off as a volunteer – she approached us. When we had funding to hire someone she had already created a rapport with our members, so we went to her. In terms of our director of programming and networking, these women grew up Chasidic themselves and found happy, healthy places in the frum world.. So they are excellent resources to show people who have gone through pain that there is happiness on the other end. We have plenty of male speakers and rabbanim we connect members with, so there is no shortage of male voices for our members.

More women tend to go in Social Work than men do, Social Workers are a very important part of these organizations

We have parents who have disowned the kids for moving to a new community even though they retain the levush and minhagim. But, we are seeing the most difficult cases. For the people who make changes and have familial support, they wouldn’t come to us necessarily. I think we are making progress – more parents are being more accepting. But we are not there yet. There are still plenty of Jews who are coming to us to make a real, sincere connection to HKB”K but because they are making any change from how they were raised is enough for the family to cut them off.

Mamale

“what percentage of Chasidic OTD parents disown their children for becoming OTD (not simply going to college)?”
It isnt about disowning per se. and yes the tide might be turning.

I’m concerned I’m being unclear
My point isnt what would happen if a chassid left. Im wiling to bet, that any parent when faced with a choice of their son leaving their derech would rather they remain observant. But it isnt presented that way, its not like A kid tells his parents, ok Im going to Colege, do you still want me to keep Kosher and wear tefillin?
The question is what attitude they are receiving.

Chasidim are taught that their way is the only derech and other segments arent really observent.
The same way in our circles. It is rare for Yeshsihvish people to leave the fold and become Reform. People who leave generally leave completly.
Why is that? IF Yeshivish society is too “restrictive” just be Reform and go to Shul at least 3 days a year. It is because we dont view Reform as a “less restrictive” form of Judaism. ditto for chasidim and MO.

Again not all, and this isnt necessarily a message that is actively given.

The founder of the Anti-Kiruv organization was a woman named “Queen Black”

To many the Lvush , the beard and Peyes are very important as is shaving the hair.

If you change your dress, shave your beard and cut your peyes or let your hair grow its as good as going reform

Ubiq, thanks for explaining. When you put it that way I hear where this is coming from.

mw13:

Kol hakavod to Rav Yitzchok Fingerer and BJX. They do fabulous kiruv work. Expecting them to succeed in combating Footsteps is like matching an ant to a Sherman tank. We need to understand a bit more about what that wicked organization is, how they work, and who is affected by it.

It looks for adults, not just teens. It is well schooled in how missionaries work, and they have used a Yiddishe kopp to develop ways of snaring our own right from under our eyes. The sales pitch is about how they catch Chassidishe souls who are dropping out, and offer them training, jobs, GED, social supports, etc. While they do some of this access, it is secondary to their real goal. They are h*ll bent on taking as many neshamos away from Yiddishkeit, and accomplish this by creating a dependency for these resources. They indoctrinate against Torah and mitzvos, teaching their prey to look at the steps of throwing away Yiddishkeit and heritage as honorable achievements. They are insidious and parasitic.

The real antidote for this poison is simchas hachaim within the fold of Yiddishkeit. It may truly be secondary what malbush someone wears, with all due respect to family minhagim. But if our young people lose passion for Torah and Mitzvos, they are easy prey for these predators.

Now comes the hard question. What are we, as a community, having our leaders, yeshivos, and schools, doing to make being a frum Yid something inherently gratifying? Do we demonstrate a feeling of accomplishment in having davened in the morning, or are we thrilled to be done with it so that we can move on to our other activities of the day? Do we enjoy learning, or has it been diverted into a competitive exercise (under the mistakenly interpreted קנאת סופרים? Are we busy looking to be the biggest tzaddik, the best bochur in yeshiva, the worthy recipient of kavod, getting the last word in on a debate in the CR, fame or fortune?

If we made our mission for our young generation to insure their experience of Torah and Mitzvos was precious and enjoyable, we would have little to no loss to missionaries like Footsteps. But, alas, we are not fulfilling ואהבת את ה’ אלקיך, in which we are obligated to achieve שתהא שם שמים מתאהב על ידך. There is occasional lip service to Ahavas Hashem. But where is the action? If we cannot see the impact, then we are not doing the job.

It would be a lovely idea to make the approaching Elul into a month of seeking Ahavas Hashem. Teshuvah becomes much easier.

I found this article published this past June in Tablet magazine “WHAT BECOMES OF TROUBLED ULTRA-ORTHODOX KIDS?” about what’s being done in Israel, very inspiring and eye-opening.

And interesting that Michael Bloomberg (who I generally don’t admire) through his “Jerusalem Innovation Team” is involved in coordinating the various organizations. Unless there’s some hidden agenda I’m missing, or it’s not true/exaggerated, we have a lot to learn and incorporate. And of course need philanthropists and perhaps government funding right here in NY to implement something like this over here on a mass scale. (Not so fast with our government for various reasons, I’m not kidding myself.)

Then maybe “Footsteps” will become obselete in a few years. Hey a girl can dream…

Anyone have some input?

One of the things that struck me is how the founder of a few institutions, Esther Rozman, specifically doesn’t lump all at-risk kids together, as drugs etc. can become an issue for those exposed to others that are worse off. Maybe Malky Klein would have been alive today if we had such institutions here.
(Incidentally, for those that haven’t yet heard her father’s interview, it’s really a must to listen to.)

Also noteworthy, no mention of the word “stigma” or “shidduchim” in the whole article. So perhaps Israelis truly are a different breed, the author doesn’t want to give these fears legitimacy, or she is simply unaware of these simmering issues.

Mods: I guess I shouldn’t have thanked you in advance…

Can you maybe post some of it? It was a really Kosher article IMHO.