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Pashuteh, Your logic in that is so faulty in that comment, it is unworthy of a respectable response.
And pashuteh, you then wonder why people don’t respect your comments, when you use subtle language to attack others? This is a constant theme of yours.
I submit that Jesse Jackson, the punk you refer to, is in your league.
Why should they not be given a voice? The website is called Yeshiva World News..It does not specify what yeshevah you grew up going to or send your kids to.
milchig,
Because if they say koiferdik things about the Torah, or say loshon hora, or attack Rabbonim, or a whole host of reasons it may be not allowed to even hear what they say.
ujm, I don’t recall any kefirah written. There was plenty of Loshon hara, but unfortunately, it was written by the people who consider themselves the more frum people, who attacked other people such as myself. (Read the comments on the R’ Tendler news article for more detail on that.)
I was accused of being pro-freikeit, but nobody could provide one example. I’m still waiting for someone to ask for forgiveness. Rosh Hashana is coming up…
Ujm and all, I’ve come to the conclusion that the internet, especially this and similar corners, is the Wild West. We can hope that everyone plays fair but if we’re here (and I’m still quite conflicted about this) we have to accept that not everyone will, and our souls may get sullied. There are many dangers present – not just someone else’s kefirah, but the ease with which *I* can run off at the mouth, or keyboard and hurt or damage someone else. Just an example.
Feif Un:
You and me both…
Don’t I count? Or am I not bad enough?
BS”D
I don’t see any posters here as really porkei oyl malchus shamayim or pro-freiheit; just that some are on the edges of what is within the 4 amois of Torah. And when one of them in particular gets out of line, he rants and raves and demonstrates to those of us who are not on the fringe “ashreinu ma toiv chelkeinu…”
GiveMe ABreak,
I’ve seen worse than you (I think.)
The way it seems on these posts is that anyone to the right of me** is a zealot and going overboard (so much so that they lost the true meaning to the mitzvah) and anyone to the left of me is an apikores…
**me refering to the average commentator**
Chacham, The only change in Sammy I have noticed is that he does not post very much.
Havesomeseichel, nobody has any problem with people who are extremely sincerely frum. The problem is with people who have nothing better to do with their time than to knock others. In the secular world there are people with personality issues who are bullies. In the frum world, sometimes these same types find a great justification by convincing themselves that they are lshem shomayim which they think gives them a license to bully others.
The greatest midah of all is anivus (humility), which leads directly to ruach hakodesh.
I know plenty of chareidim who are sincere and eidel and have true ahavas yisroel. These types are quietly learning and growing and probably do not post. Unfortunately, there are a few who use frumkeit as a way of justifying their gayvah issues and give all the rest a bad name. I doubt these phonies are more medakdek bmitzvos than the groups they criticize. It is just noise.
Pashuteh, Its a maaila if he doesn’t post very much, rather than posting much krumkeit.
Why aren’t I getting any votes to include me on this wonderful list?
Givemeabreak, I am sorry but this is an exclusive club and we have far more applicants than we can handle. On page 2 of this thread, I outlined the application process. Only the most outstanding are selected.
Good luck, and contact us if you need any assistance with the process.
Pashuteh Yid:
Give me a break, He said that in jest.
pashutehyid, isn’t Sammy a she?
The Big One:
Duh.
wow, I originally didnt post on this thread because I was so disgusted by the title but I jsut read through it all and got to say this.
maybe you should redefine your definition of pro-freikeit, because maybe thats the parts that wrong, not that the people that are being falsly accused can be compared to having goyish idealogy, anybody with an opposing opinon that doesnt fit your little fram is pro-freikeit? you know maybe I should be added to that list, I wrote on the thread I started about kosher hangouts that we should make them co-ed as to help kids.
I assume most of the posters are adults, some with children, you are the reason us kids go off. Whatever we do is not good enough, we are looked down enough and berated for our actions so why do anything? thats one of the reasons i went off the derech as did other kids I know. We all have different opinions but why cant you have a normal dissagreement without publicly bashing people and ascting like a bunch of animals. I sure hope you havent turned anyone else off, instead off worrying about what the “profreikeit” commeantors have awaiting them in shamayim and analyzing their actions, look at yourself, we all have to.
teenager chill. This is just a discussion…
i dont think you should tell ppl they r the reason you went off the derech i think its rude and insulting you cant blame anybody for your actions neither can anybody else
I seldom put forth my views in reponse to a post and like to remain as my name says a Nobody.
I have, however given though to this post and am adding my 10 cents worth.
Pro Freikeit is a strong statement to make and I think it was made without thinking too deeply what this means and the consequences of it. To be pro freikeit implies being anti-religious. Anti religious is not the same as non religious and non religious is relative to the circumstances and people.
If someone on this site is non religious then surely kind words and not harsh opinions are better served. The mere fact they have logged on to this site and not some other speaks volumes.
This site has people from all walks of life and who are we to judge anyone. It is better to listen and offer warm words of encouragement than to be judemental which ultimately pushes people away.
I come across people from different backgrounds and varying degrees of frumkeit. I have learnt never to voice an opinion but to open my heart and ears and listen to the underlying message.
Someone who has gone off the derech (an expression I don’t like by the way) has not necessarily lost the plot, lost their mind, nor are they necessarily running away from something or someone and we are not to judge their reasons why, as often there is no true logical or analytical explanation. However, we do have to keep our hearts open and to be there when the time comes to pick up the pieces without question.
My heart and soul goes to those who are crying for help in one way or another and don’t even know it. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make it better for everyone but I realise that’s not possible. So instead I sit and listen and wait.
I do not think it is rude or insulting for someone to say why they are no longer frum and there is no reason they should not give a reason on this or any other forum. Maybe they need annonymous non judgmental frum people to hear them out and help them and listen to their cry. Nor has anyone the right to say they have only themselves to blame. That is a strong opinioned statement made rashly without thought.
I do not expect everyone to agree with what I have said but I would like to think everyone on this site giving their opinions has some maturity to think carefully into what they put into writing. Don’t write for the sake of it. Think first of what your words mean and how they will be taken and the consequences.
Ultimately we will all need to account to Hashem in the Beis Din Shel Ma’aloh all our words, deeds and actions – just as we’ve just said on Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur. How quick some people forget these holy words. How quick we brush aside what we have davened for and how quick we are to slip down the road of not so nice thoughts, words and actions.
End of drosho!
Gila- I am not blaming anyone here individually as I dont know who they are and I have no right to do that, and i am apologizing if I came on to strong, the main reason as I stated earlier that I went off the derech was abuse, it didnt help that the frum community as a whole is not so accepting and open armed (many individuals are), my actions are mine and yes I am at fault for what Iv’e done and I realize that, I just know that so many people who I knew when I wasnt really frum went off ebcause of the kind of attitide that is displayed on this forum. No one knows the impact they could have on someone good or abd, you dont know what a difference you could make it someones life, so all I am asking is to be careful
Nobody- all I can say is wow, your words are very true and I hope everyone listens to them and takes it to ehart, I dont know why you dont post more often
Nobody, your kind and well thought out words are like a drink of water in the middle of a desert of inflammatory, finger-pointing posts. It’s good to know that there are some users here who actually think about the consequences of their words before releasing them into cyberspace.
Give Me a Break, I too wonder why my screen name is not on that list. Perhaps I’m too new.
Nobody, I understand your desire to remain anonymous, but your name doesn’t fit you at all. You are definitely important, and your post said what all of us needed to hear, and what I wish I was articulate enough to say.
jewishfeminist02, this is an old thread; if you continue posting (& I hope you will) in time your name will be added to the list too.
I see this thread has been re-opened. Can we for the sake of the many people who have been referred to in this thread drop it / close the subject.
Enough has been said, mud has been slung, tears (no doubt) shed. There is no point to re-open this subject other than for negativities.
GILA:
No, teenager is exactly correct. It is the attitudes that teenager pointed out that does indeed cause many to go “off the derech.” Would you rather ignore the problem than fix it?
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