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I need your opinion. I have a relative who has been married for many years and has been in a miserable situation from the beginning. His wife is absolutely horrible. The only reason he is still married is because he knows he will never see his children again and have nothing but the clothes on his back. The children arent stupid. They arent happy. They are being raised in a cold enviroemnt and being brainwashed by their mother to follow in her sick ways. He has very little to do woth his family, due to her threats and he is suffereing so terribly. What do you think,should he stay or go?
I say not to.
It is a machlokes among the experts whether it is actually better for the kids or not, so I consider that equal.
Then, when you take into account the parents needs, it tilts the balance.
But, specifics of the case change it. Like here, if you think the kids will otherwise have no father and only a crazy mother, maybe all the experts would agree it is better for the kids to stay together.
He should also have hope that she can change. Was she always like this, or when did she change? He must have loved her at one time ?
It’s a gamble if going out there again and looking for someone and paying child support will be better.
He should make many learning sedarim and do things to relieve his depression. Depression for him is the worst of this.
Is he happy in general despite this woman?
He should find an excellent therapist with the goal of having her join. He should try to be BeSimcha and sing Zemiros, and make the best possible for the children. Maybe he can take a hobby like a musical instrument or art, this would help his depression.
Stay with it. Can get better.
You’re asking a loaded question, that should most likely be answered by himself through the help of a therapist. What is your interest in this question. Is he planning to listen to you? It sounds like you want to know how to advise him. Make sure you should be doing this. It’s a big responsibility to break up a family.
That being said, you stated many vague comments/generalities:
1) she is horrible. How? What does she do?
2) he will never see the children and will have nothing but the clothing on his back. He owns nothing? Is he working? How do you think she could legally get away with denying him visitation rights? Unless he’s done something horrible that she can prove it might be hard for her to deny him any visitation.
3) the children are being brainwashed by their mother to follow in her sick ways. Brainwashed makes it sound like they “see” her side of it over his. What are her “sick” ways??
4) what are these threats that prevent him so effectively from seeing his family?
I’m not saying that abuse of a wife towards her husband doesn’t exist, but you haven’t provided any concrete information that sounds convincing that she’s donne anything egregious.
Has the situation really been miserable “from the beginning”?
Speaking from unfortunate personal experience, he and his wife should do their best to get help for themselves individually and as a couple. They should make every effort to make the marriage work. With rare exceptions (like physical abuse)No marriage falls apart solely because of one partner. And it does impact the kids. But I can tell you that it also impacts the kids if the parents fall deeper into animosity and blame within the marriage. So when all efforts have been made, it is my experience that they should split. My relationship with my kids has got better, not worse since we did so.
Stay with it-try to only focus on the good (tzaddik qualifications) Do it for the kids, try to stay upbeat, learn mussar and remember Hashem didn’t make a mistake and send you the wrong life. Divorce=money fights, your kids vs your new wife, simcha problems-no fun weddings with the kids, no grandkids. Tough tough situation, but the other side is not much better. If she is really crazy and you are worried about the kid’s exposure to maniacal behavior, you need Daas Torah. Hatzlocha!
Kids should be an incentive for working on it until there’s absolutely nothing left to try. But if the marriage isn’t salvageable, then it’s better to end it- yes, the kids will be hurt, but less than they will be if the parents stick with the dead marriage.
For this specific case, maybe the family can pitch in to get the relative an amazing lawyer so that he can fight for his rights?
Make your marriage work for the sake of the kids. If all else fails, make your divorce work for the sake of the kids. The common denominator being the kids, that is always the defining factor. As a parent your obligation is always to your kids. As a spouse your obligation is always to make your marriage work.
Although it really is dependent on how old the children are, the mother usually gets away with having all the visitation rights, especially is the husband plans on moving out of town.
I would vote that the couple should stay married “for the children”.
His obligation is to try to work on it. If he can’t, he should leave. The children aren’t helped by living in an envirement where 2 people are fighting or where one person (the “crazy” wife) snipes at the other and the other (the “tzadik” husband) is a doormat. If he thinks she will run away with the kids, he could go to court about it.
Most of all, I think he should go to a rav who HAS EXPERIENCE with these things and make some decisions, not just listen to the advice of total strangers.
No; divorce for your sake and for the good of the kids.
I say they should split. But he should definitely get a good lawyer and fight for at least joint custody. Better 1 happy parent than 2 angry, sad ones. Don’t keep the marriage going for the kids if it’s really that bad, they’ll end up hurting them more than if they were to split.
Honestly, the best thing to do is to stay out of it and let them figure it out for themselves. Seriously, don’t give any advice because you see what you think you see or what one party wants you to see. You only hear what you are told by one party or what one party wants you to hear. So if you are not hearing both sides of the story, and you are NOT qualified to give advice just stay out of it.
..I would say – Take a tip from Poppy.
Yaakov Avinu
Medrash says Yaakov Avinu had in his heart to divorce Leah Imenu (for reasons not relevant now). Immediately, Medreash says, HaShem sent children her way. So Yaakov reconsidered, “How can I send away the mother of these?” Eventually she became the ikeres habayis.
Some times staying on selflessly for the sake of the children pays off in the long run.
lkwdgirl 1 -Leave it up to the therapist. They both need individual and marital therapy. That’s their call, not his, not yours and not anybody from the CR peanut gallery.
I know s/o who was told by his family to divorce his wife (here in Lakewood) -maybe we are talking about the same couple? When I heard about it – I said those two? They don’t need a divorce -they need for s/o to take their kids away from them!
Zeeskite- I never heard this medrash. Very interesting
They shud see a family therapist to work it all out.
zeeskite: interesting, never heard of that medrash before. Thank you for teaching me something new today!
koillel101: I shouldn’t be the one teaching someone in Kollel, but it’s there, last time I looked. (Most of the time I don’t make up stuff)
Breaking up the family should be the last option, not the first. Nobody on this forum can diagnose this marriage on the internet. Qualified therapists need to get involved and help each side as well as the children. Divorce does not have to be a nasty process. The most important factor has to be the kids. Neither parent can just take the children without going through a process. Each individual case has to be evaluated on its individual merits. If the decision is made to divorce, then the most important factor must be how to go through the process while minimizing the trauma to the kids. I speak from first hand experience. my ex-wife and I did everything in our power to remove the children from the process and are confident that we made the right decisions.
It’s a Machlokes Tana’im.
ZeesKite: It is in Medrash Rabba.
Haleivi, what is the machlokes between tanaim?
I agree that divorce is rarely necessary and widely overused. Most divorces could have been prevented, and anyone married should take care to stay that way (except in the rarest of circumstances).
Eiruvin 41b
Hi lkwdgirl1.
All I can say is that I wish them well and that they both regain what they had for each other
on their wedding day and when they had their children. These matters, more and more common, are very sad.
Man u ask one loaded and unaswerable question for here, unless u know all aspects of the sitch u can’t simply offer a inteligent answer.
All I can say is sometimes its better to divorce than have a horrible marriage “for the kids”. Kids growing up experiencing a horrible marriage is a terrible thing that affects their marriages.
Therapy buddy.
The OP makes it sound as if the husband has nothing to do with his family. If that’s truly the case, then nothing will be gained by staying in the marriage, they have nothing to do with him anyhow. If the parents are openly unhappy with each other (which sounds like the case here), the kids will be better off when the parents are seperated. Better to be with one happy one than with two unhappy ones.
What this guy needs is a good therapist, one that will teach him to start acting like a leader, like a parent, like the head of a household.
Trust me, I was in the exact same situation & therapy taught me leadership skills and I took control of the situation and now it’s all behind us. In fact, now, my wife respects me even more than ever because I took control, I stood firm by my decisions, and I righted a sinking ship. (And my kids adore me.)
You just need perseverance and patience. Nothing happens overnight. Patience, patience, patience.
Oh, did I mention another important thing that you need? Patience. Patience, patience, and more patience. And then some.
“..And then some.”
Some what?
ZK -Some patience -obviously.
Oh, I was wondering…
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