Should More Mamzerim Be Created?

He can marry a mamzeres and have 1 kid so two turn into one

Safek of Pri Megadim 240, discussed in Minchas Chinuch (1).

Why would you think this is not a clear-cut halachic question?

And if for whatever reason you assumed he IS obligated in the mitzvah, why do you think he can get out of it? cf Chizkiyahu

Avi,

That rule only applies to someone sold as a slave and that’s only a daas yachid that the kids are kosher

Coffe Addict, on the contrary, it is halacha peskua that the children are avadim and once they are freed they become regular gerim (Shulchan Aruch Even HaEzer 4,20).

WolfishMusings,

The question is, should a mamzer(ess) marry and have children. It is commonly expressed how terrible it is to bring mamzerim into the world.

I think the terribleness of bringing about mamzerim you are referring to is primarily directed towards the initial circumstance. After the fact, if “containing the damage” was Hashem’s top priority, why would He permit mamzerim to marry at all?

In other words, what Hashem hates is the behavior that causes a mamzer in the first place, as opposed to the mamzer himself.

1. If a mamzer wants to prevent an increase in the number of mamzerim in the world, can he willingly not marry and have children?

For mamzerim to find permitted and suitable potential spouses would be miraculous; why should they deny themselves happiness due to sins that were not their fault?

2. Should we discourage known mamzerim who do want to marry from doing so, again with the goal of not increasing the number of mamzerim in the world?

I think the focus would be better placed on preventing the sins from which mamzerim originate.

3. If he wants to decrease the number of mamzerim in the world, can he consider suicide?

Umm, what? Where in the Torah is it ever suggested that murdering a mamzer is permitted?

If the answers to any of the above questions is no, how do we reconcile this with the idea that HKBH clearly does not want mamzerim?

I think your focus on this issue is a bit off. What HKBH does not want to happen is the circumstances that produce a mamzer ab origine, e.g., adultery, not the mamzer per se.

@ Joe & Avi,

That’s cool, however still isn’t the mamzer supposed to be sold as a slave not just buy one because marrying her sets her free?

yytz: The halacha is that at a mamzer’s bris it is publicly announced that the child is a mamzer.

ca: Can you repeat that in English?

yytz: The halacha is that at a mamzer’s bris it is publicly announced that the child is a mamzer.

Communties dont talk to each other and if one community makes such a proclimation it very well would not be heard in another

why would He permit mamzerim to marry at all?

As a rachamin for the mamzer, after all it wasnt his sin, but his parents

GM: Suppose the husband was away for a year.

CA, I do not say anything. Rav Yosef Karo says it based on Rabbi Tarfon (Kiddushin 69a). See also Bet Shmuel and Chlekat Mechokek thatt his was allowed for the sake of the child – which means that here is no need for him to become an eved Ivri. Moreover, the Mechaber does not include any halchot that are not in force in our time and until Yovel is re-established there cannot be an eved Ivri (Rambam, Hilchot Avadim 1:10).You say? Do you have broad enough shoulders to disagree with the above? If not, cite someone who does.

In any case, poskim go to great lengths to clear someone from mamzerut. I heard that once Rav Moshe discovered that a BT’s mother was under psychiatric care when she married her first husband (who did not give her a get). He went to the psychiatrist personally and told him that he had only lived so long in order to clear the girl (the psychiatrist was by then quite elderly). The info allowed Rav Moshe to rule that the mother was halachically a shottah at the time of her first marriage. Similarly, it is well-known that Rav Moshe was meikal regarding women who had been married in non-Orthodox ceremonies. Possel eidim also occur. Once someone told me that before he became observant he was a witness at his sister’s wedding.

Rav Moshe was known to be Mekail, Rav Elyashiv was known not to hold this way

Because Dr Frankenstein refused to create a wife for Frankenstein’s monster, the monster then killed his wife. This is a clear middah keneged middah for not allowing the monster to fulfill the mitzva of lo tohu bera’ah lesheves yetzara even in a case where there is no pru u’revu.

I have never seen anything that would exempt a mamzer from pru urvu.

yytz: The citation you made does not state or imply what you attribute to it.

yytz: Shulchan Aruch YD 265:4 – “We publicize at the time of the Bris Milah that the baby is a mamzer.” The Shach there says that mamzerim are not given a Bris Mila inside the shul like kosher children are, but outside the shul. The Gra quotes the source for publicizing that the baby is a mamzer by the Bris is a Gemora in Yevomes 78b. The Gemorah there says that a Rov publicized the fact that a somebody was a mamzer. The person came to the Rov to complain and the Rov said that if I had not publicized this, you would have died.

Rema YD 265:4 – “???????? ???? ????? ???? ????”

Joseph , who are “we”? Apparently Rav Ammi (Yevamot 78b) did want them to survive. The solution for men is as I posted. A woman is not obligated in peria v’revia so probably she would be allowed to marry a mamzer or ger who cannot have children or already did the mitzva and take preventive measures. Adoption might also be an option (see Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky, Chayei Olam Ch. 31 in the name of the Chafetz Chaim, Shem Olam Ch. 15).

Suicide is assur. Just as someone killing someone else is assur, someone killing himself is assur. I do not even understand how you can question the possibility of suicide. It is a clear-cut issur.

Not going anywhere good.