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OK, now you’ve added a disclaimer that we’re only discussing US population. That’s around 400 million right now. Of which 2% is 8 million, which is more than triple the number of people living in Brooklyn (2.5 million).
“Everytime I leave Brooklyn, I see its like 95% goyim.”
All the more reason to live OOT. 😉
Sacrilege
So much for Ahavas Yisroel.
BP Totty; Sorry – I don’t know from Blackberries, etc. I am more than middle aged and not the most technically savvy. My cell phone doesn’t take pictures or connect to the net – it just makes phone calls – I guess I could live in the shtetl myself. Every once in awhile I even wear one of my old watches that I must wind up. Recently though, I was talking to someone with even less tech knowledge than I have (even though he is a few years younger than me) and he told me that a mutual friend of ours had just purchased a fancy, new phone called a Blueberry.
WIY – Absence makes the heart grow fonder 😉
This reminds me of the caller on Country Yossi who thought the 5 Boros of NYC are Flatbush, Boro Park, Monsey, Seagate and Monroe.
Sacrilege
If someone lives as they should there’s nothing to hide and no reason to want to be absent from Jews. Not saying you specifically…
Yoish – Yoish it was a joke.
Minyan Gal, we are on the same page.
My phone does not do any tricks, but my son’s / wife’s phone do everything except fry eggs.
But my watch (battery, BTW)is way cooler than either of theirs!
I don’t think girls should learn to drive before marriage. And I don’t think they should learn to drive with non-frum instructors; Unknown influences, and all. Nor male instructors; Tzniut issues. So. Where does that leave us?
girls-drive????Never ever chas veshalom!!!!! Girls shouldn’t either leave their houses other than for school. They shouldn’t go to the store, mall, ice cream or anything for that matter! Girls belong at home and in school and on the way to school they should cover themselves up on the way into their mother’s car and on their way out. SERIOUSLY! R u people normal??????? I’m beginning to think the cr is full of people who say they shouldn’t have internet but do and…I don’t even know anymore. All I do know is that this is the most rediculous thing I’ve ever heard of (I’m not bashing I’m just shocked at the extremists here)
Mischief, I think most of the people here agree with you, and were being sarcastic. It is only a small minority that actually doesn’t allow women to drive.
Is this thread serious????
:)glad to know there are some normal people out there. 🙂
But be honest with us Mischief – When you get your license (if you don’t already have one) are you going to be one of those super-cool, A++ JAPy types, that cruise around in a late model Maxima (or mini-Lexus SUV, if the budget allows) or will you be driving carpool in a 15 passenger van?
Or will you aim for the sky and get a tricked out, lights / sirens, tinted window Suburban, and roar down the block at 80mph? (all the while, loving the stares snd dropped jaws you get from jeolous Oddessy divers like me)
(Is it obvoius how bad I wish I had a car like that?)
I quickly browsed the topic title and was intrigued by it: I thought it said, “Should girls learn to divorce before they get married?”……..
Well, Mesechtas Gittin does come before Mesechtas Kedushin….
BP totty-I don’t drive yet, I’m too young. When I will drive I can’t say what i’ll do but I’m not this rich jap who’s parents are gonna spoil me with a lexus or anything like that. (I’m not into cars-I barely know what that is lol) I’ll be driving my parents simple, small car for all I care. Most of my grade doesn’t drive yet but I guess if it becomes a massive pressure…yeah I’ll probably be dieing for it (but won’t get it!)
mischiefmaker:
I think the discussion here has shifted from the actual question of if girls should or shouldn’t drive to what reasons there are that would prevent girls from driving. I would imagine that the vast majority of people here would have no problem having their daughters learn to drive.
I think that single girls should for sure learn how to drive. As a matter of fact, I think single girls should learn whatever they can get under their belt before they get married because anything they have to take up after they are already married and certainly after they have children is that much harder. If girls have the time, there’s no better time than the present to learn all the things that would stand them in good staid for the future.
Part of learning to drive is learning that a person is always responsible for damages he or she causes. This is why Baba Kama was one of the most important Gemoras to teach our sons. With girls and women driving this message about the responsibility for damages has to also be taught to our daughters.
i havent read the whole thread, however, here are my thoughts;
at first when i read the title i also laughed and agreed it belonged to the thread of jokes. However, then i remembered when i started driving, it is a big responsibility safety wise, but more than that – you have it in you control to go very far away and do WHATEVER YOU WANT, especially in places OTHER than NY which is so easy to get around without a car. Basically it is an amazing device that makes life a lot simpler BUT HAS TO B USED IN THE RIGHT WAY, like everything else in life.
Amd sofdavar’s good advice is equally pertinent to BOYS driving.
Driving is natural for boys. Men have been in the drivers seat for millennia.
So Right –
“Driving is natural for boys.”
Is that why Male & Female given the same age, the Male would have higher insurance rates?
Is that why Male & Female given the same age, the Male would have higher insurance rates?
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No. That is not why. Men have higher insurance rates because they tend to drive more, and are more aggressive. Imagine how low women’s insurance rates could be if they knew how to drive!
“and are more aggressive.”
…causing more accidents.
I rest my case.
The fact is that men in general are better drivers. Especially men who are out of their teen years. There have been studies done on this. Don’t believe me? You can google it.
The investigators, who published their results in the July issue of Epidemiology, found that although teenage boys started off badly, with about 20 percent more crashes per mile driven than teenage girls, males and females between ages 20 and 35 were equally at risk of being involved in a crash, and after age 35 female drivers were at greater risk of a crash than their male counterparts.
Lead author Guohua Li, MD, PhD, associate professor of Emergency Medicine at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, and of Health Policy and Management at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, said, “Although risk-taking behaviors may contribute to the excessive injury mortality among men and younger drivers, up to now age and sex discrepancies in death rates from motor vehicle crashes have not been well understood.”
The investigators determined that about half of the 3.1-fold difference between the sexes’ fatal crash involvement rates was due to the fact that males’ crashes were more severe. Another 40 percent was due to the fact that men, who on average drove many more miles than women, thus had a greater opportunity of being in a crash; and 8 percent because of gender differences in “crash incidence density,” the number of crashes per million person-miles.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980618032130.htm
You have the evidence so I’ll retract my statement of many getting in to more crashes.
Bottom line. Men are being killed more in vehicle accidents, so who really wins here?
That’s because men drive 74 percent more miles per year than women.
So then clearly the problem isnt girls “galavanting”.
Men are expected to be in the field, whilst women are expected at home.
Are we talking about 2010?
No. We’re light years ahead of that.
We’re talking about 5771.
Clever.
And Evasive.
No evasiveness at all. You missed the answer.
You are thinking secular (i.e. an American); I am talking like a Jew (i.e. Torah).
Actually my “clever” was aimed at that retort that you suddenly count according to the Jewish calander.
Although you still didnt answer my question hence, evasive.
Nancy Pelosi supporters were saying, “A woman’s place is in the house- as speaker!”
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As if any woman would ever not be the speaker.
Let me break it down in simpler terms for you.
The role of men and women in Jewish life, as defined by the Torah and expected by halacha, greatly differs from that of the 20th/21st century egalitarian pluralistic modern western societal expectations. So yes, a woman’s place is at home.
egalitarian pluralistic modern western societal expectations
New YWN rule: nouns may have no more than 3 adjectives. The punishment for a second infraction is to be tied to a tree in the forest and left for the bears. (Or if you are Popa’s kid, nothing.)
“as defined by the Torah and expected by halacha”
How then would you explain the phenomena, according to the Torah & Halacha, of 100s of woman leaving the Home for the sake of said Torah if indeed it was contrary to its teachings.
Nobody disagrees with the fact that it is better to have the mother home to raise the kids full time. But in a situation where you cant have that AND a Kollel father and husband at the same time, which of those two has to fall by the wayside? The answer is, you take whichever you think is MORE important: a mother always being home or a father who is the biggest talmid chacham he can be. Yes, a woman’s place is at home. But also yes, the type of home you are supposed to have is a Torah home, a Torah-husband and Torah-father at its helm. The question is, if you can only have one of those two positive elements of a home, which is more important? The answer is having a husband and father who is a Talmid Chacham, or better yet, the biggest Talmid Chacham he can be, is the more important of the two. So if you can have both, fine; if not, then we choose learning. Furthermore, there is a special concept surrounding the Mitzvah of learning that does not apply to any other Mitzvah, a concept that affects both Halachah and Hashkafa, that is, Torah learning in the world is so important that we prioritize Torah learning in a way that we would never do with other Mitzvos.
I’m confused. How does spending your whole day in Starbucks and at the mall help raise your kids?
You did say in the previous statement that the womans place is in the home as defined by Torah & Halachah. Did the Torahs definition suddenly change?
Do we sacrifice some elements of what the Torah “says” for others? I think not. If you want to build a Torah home, what kind of message does it send to your children, that you have your preference of mitzvos & halachos that you follow? (if indeed you believe a womans place is strictly in the home)
It’s the ideal. Sometimes it isn’t possible to do both, and you are unfortunately forced to take whichever you think is MORE important.
How can one dictation in the Torah be MORE important than the other?
The question is not one of dictation, but rather what will make you a better Jew.
You see that I can go with. The only reason I was giving you a hard time was because you said it was “defined by Torah and expected by Halacha” I dont appreciate new Halachos being sprung on me.
Funny thing is I completely agree with you! Ideally, a womans place is in the house, as an Eizer Kenegdo. Do I think that that means she needs to be denied a drivers license? NO! Do I think she needs to be locked up and the key thrown away? NO! It’s all about striking the perfect balance.
Believe me I’d gladly trade in my current career, for a full Case Load of baby diapers and sticky fingers. And I think you’d be pretty hard-pressed to find a woman who wouldnt.
NO NO NO the answer is no they shouldn’t that’s it less frustration and more calm drivers!!
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