- This topic has 23 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
what do people feel regarding marriageable age boys and girl cousins talking to each other? is it appropriate for a boy and girl to talk to each other when they are of marriageable age- even if they are first cousins, what about distant cousins? Im just curious how people feel bout this…
what about distant cousins?
Well, we’re all distant cousins with one another….
Seriously, you’ll get some replies that say yes and some that say no.
The Wolf
So the idea of a guy/girl friendship being completely free of hormonal input is bogus.
And I must reiterate that the prohibition here is NOT the words that are spoken. It is 100% permitted to speak to a women for a purpose such as business, asking directions, or having any essential discussion. It is the unessential, unnecessary, and especially friendship-oriented interaction that is prohibited.
Rav Moshe’s famous Teshuva prohibiting m’doraisa girls and boys being friends is based on a statement of Chazal in Avos D’Reb Nosson, and a ruling of the Ran. Basically, it says that any friendly interaction between boys and girls is prohibited. Rav Moshe ZTL continues by saying that there is no such thing as a platonic friendship between boys and girls. He points out that objectively boys should logically choose other boys as friends, – they have more in common, they are more alike etc., and not girls – and the only reason someone would prefer a female friend is because she is a female. And that is Asur.
Now Rav Moshe ZT’L does NOT mean that every boy/girl friendship is for the purpose of lust. The dynamics of mixed gender friendships are so different than same gender friendships, and the reason is because of the subtle but oh-so-obvious sexual dynamic taking place between the parties.
This is a very loaded question. A boy and girl cousins or not, will get too friendly if allowed to have long conversations together. They can talk but in a family setup with others around otherwise becareful!
Joseph- while some of that post was very informative it didn’t address the question, which specifically discusses cousins.
You say or quote things like “even between strangers.”
The question was not about strangers, or whether men and women should have platonic friendships. I don’t think anyone would disagree with what’s been said about that. The question was specifically about cousins, i.e., family, and that is not addressed in anything you’ve posted.
Anyway, my two cents is that it depends on the specific closeness of the families in general. If the cousins grew up spending lots of time together, and their relationship is similar to that of brother and sister, than for the same reasons that brothers and sisters can talk, I’d say its permissible. If their relationship is more distant, i.e., they didn’t see each other growing up very often, didn’t see each other except for the occasional and infrequent simcha, then no, they are more akin to strangers who should not develop a platonic relationship. But I am Just-a-guy, not a Rav, and not even Joseph.
According to Halacha, a boy cousin and a girl cousin have the same status as a boy and girl that are not related at all.
If Poster is correct, then that answers that.
Just-a-guy:
There is no halachic distinction on these issues I’ve mentioned between first cousins, distant cousins, next door neighbors, and strangers. You can check the Maharal I cited or the Igros Moshe if you’d like.
Then the relevant answer Joseph is that there is no halachic distinction between cousins and strangers.
Just a guy:
Cousins that are as close as bros and sis are not at all allowed to talk extra.
It really doesn’t matter how close they are. Siblings are allowed and cousins not. That’s the halacha.
And btw, if I’m not mistaken, if 2 people of the opposite gender are especially close then the halacha becomes even more strict. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
quick question here…just to get a perspective…if any of you saw your female cousin in the street would you say hello?
Everyone says that’s the halacha, but nobody gives the source. Even Joseph’s post, which does have sources (I haven’t had the opportunity to review them yet) doesn’t contain sources for his later assertion that “there is no halachic distinction between cousins and strangers.”
Just-a-Guy, halachically two first cousins are permitted to marry each other, hence they have all the regular Dinei Rrvah and then some. Even HaEzer Siman chuf-beis states that relatives have the din of “Libo Gas Bo”, meaning there are some hateiri of Yichud that while applicable in most cases are not applicable in theirs.
Thank you Ben Levi.
Ben levi-
As far as I always knew, the category of lebo gas bo is much stricter and this category has many more restrictions in hilchos yichud.
Anyway have time to look into a shulchan aruch now and clarify?
what about girl and boy first cousins talking in a group just having a normal discussion?
not a one on one.
As far as I always knew, the category of lebo gas bo is much stricter and this category has many more restrictions in hilchos yichud.
Indeed by Libo Gas Bo the restrictions in hilchos yichud are stricter.
And the Shulchan Aruch (E.H. 22:8) and the Aruch Hashulchan (E.H. 22:6) present examples of a man and a woman who grew up together or are related – such as cousins. Libo Gas Bo also applies to a man and a woman who are very friendly with each other, such as those who work together in an office or if the man and woman dated. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (cited in Nishmas Avraham 3:94-95) and Dvar Halacha (7:17), state that Libo Gas Bo applies even if the man and woman have only had minimal interaction such as a woman who has visited a doctor a number of times or a man and woman who had some business dealings together.
halachically they can marry each other so whats the difference?
joseph: where is this tshuvah from rav moshe
The main difference in Halacha between Libo gas Bo and no loibo Gas Bo is the Heter of Baloh Bir.
Normally if a womans husband is in the same city as her and can arrive home at any time there is no issur yichud with her, however if a man is “libo Gas Bo” with her then the issur Yichud would apply.
In addition according to many Poskin including the Beis Shmuel and Chelkas Mechokek if in a case of Libo Gas Bo there is no heter of “pesah Pasuach L’reshus Harabim” a door open towards a public area.
Please be aware that what I have written above is only a very brief synopsis of some very pertinent halachos for any women working in an office or any one with a cleaning lady and other common cases. In any particular situation one must consult a Rav who is versed in Hilchos Yichud.
As for group setting that is a very complex topic and the halachos for ashkenazim and sephardim would differ somewhat and is truly beyond the scope of this forum.
Igros Moshe EH 4:60.
wow i didn’t know this stuff
what about ‘al tarbeh sicho im isha’?
so why are we on here so often…?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.