shomer nigia

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  • #901664
    Health
    Participant

    Sam2 -“Health: I don’t think so. I think everyone agrees that not Derech Chibah is Muttar Lechatchilah (see Kesuvos 17a). The only issue is whether not Derech Chibah can actually exist in a practicaly, everyday situation.”

    Well then, if I’m not right explain to me why they hold Assur.

    I posted above, I don’t even agree with Rav Shacter that by a pretty woman that it’s Assur. I hold handshaking for business purposes is Not Derech Chiba, period -no exceptions. What I hold is Assur is some people shaking e/o’s hands after Shul on Shabbos, whether they are the same or different genders.

    #901665
    avhaben
    Participant

    Health: When did you become a posek?

    #901666
    oomis
    Participant

    Whatever one holds (no pun intended) regarding negiyah, it makes NO difference if the woman is pretty or plain, fat, thin, tall, short, blonde, brunette, or redhead. If something is assur, it is assur, not assur EXCEPT when the woman is unattractive.

    Attractiveness is very subjective, and there are some very plain-looking people who are extremely attractive to SOMEONE. Just look at a lot of the shidduchim you see randomly. You might wonder what any of them saw in each other. That is the beauty of Hashem, who enables zivugim to find each other, even when others might not “get” the attraction. It is for that reason that we cannot rationalize that it is not oveir negiyah if the woman is not so pretty(maybe the McDonald’s cheesebruger wasn’t so treif, if I didn’t enjoy it). There are plenty of men who might not find a woman attractive, but still might have improprer thoughts if they came into physical contact with her (And maybe even if they did not actually come into contact, who is to say?).

    Whatever we do, we make a conscious choice to follow or not to follow what the halacha is and cannot rationalize our actions away, but need to be hoenst with ourselves.

    #901667

    Health

    The rabbonim in Germany had the minhag to “shake e/o’s hands after Shul on Shabbos”. As such, I would advise everyone to ask their Rav and not pasken based on Health’s “feelings”.

    #901668
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello shoe store assistant,

    Your love of all things shoes cracks me up! Sometime perhaps in your commentary on a thread you can find a way to describe how you came to develop your singular obsession…was there a life-changing childhood moment involving footwear? I am very serious — I like to understand how people come to develop their distinctive areas of interest.

    #901669
    Health
    Participant

    MediumThinker -“Health -The rabbonim in Germany had the minhag to “shake e/o’s hands after Shul on Shabbos”. As such, I would advise everyone to ask their Rav and not pasken based on Health’s “feelings”.”

    Well it isn’t just my feelings, it seems even Germans hold this way. A quote from ROB.

    “rabbiofberlin – I do know that R”Moshe ztl has a couple of teshuvos on this and he is certainly not intimating the same thing. He quotes the minhag of Rabbonim in Germany that did shake hands and , although he writes “koshe lehattir”- it is difficult to be “meikel’, etc.”

    #901670

    So you are bringinga proof to me that the rabbonim held that way? Or are you saying we should listen to Rav Moshe’s psak, not Health’s?

    I’m kind of confused, because your tone insinuates that you are disagreeing with me, but the substance seems to be in concurrence with me.

    #901671

    Aurora, there was a very traumatising event in my childhood hwich i describe in the confiscating shoes thread, so it is very ironic that i ended up un in a shoe shop.

    I suggest you work in a shoe shop for two weeks, especially for frum teenagers, i assure you that will always notice what shoes everyone is wearing.

    #901673
    Wisey
    Participant

    Once I gave in and shook a women’s hand but all I could think about was “OY how can I be doing such a thing.”

    Does that mean it would become muttar irrelevant of attractiveness?

    #901674
    aurora77
    Participant

    Hello shoe store assistant,

    I am so sorry to hear that! I didn’t realize that — I will have to read about it on the other thread…

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