Shmiras Halashon

Hi, there is a person: [email protected], who is starting to send out daily emails on shmiras halashon, you can email the person saying you would like to join, its a fast and easy lesson… (well pp on here all day must have extra time anyway)

I spoke with a person at the CCHF today and he is clearing it with the top person there. the plan at this point is to have a link in the features section similar to:

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/weekly_torah.php

updates and status as soon as we have them.

in the meantime, if you are not sure if what you are about to say violates the laws of shmiras haloshon, don’t say it! oh and if you are sure it is a violation, for sure don’t say it!

72 – If it’s not in the CR, then I have a feeling not too many people will see it. I’d be curious (my screenname again) to know how many people actually click on the Weekly Torah link.

And this is by far the best line:

“in the meantime, if you are not sure if what you are about to say violates the laws of shmiras haloshon, don’t say it! oh and if you are sure it is a violation, for sure don’t say it!”

bestdriver, yes I do have extra time which is why I am the one who creates and send out the emails.

The CCHF sends out a daily lesson from the Chofetz Chaim: A Daily Companion/Mesorah Publications. To subscribe or unsubscribe: e-mail [email protected] with subject subscribe/unsubscribe. To order tapes, books, learning programs and free catalog call 866-593-8399.

not yet. We are working on it. thanks.

thank you Curious!!!!

Wait, I have a shaila…. if… (ad the shaila niggun as I ask) we all are anonymous as in a site like YW and we insult ppl and talk abt ppl when we make fun of them, does it hold like Loshon Hara mamish cuz l’maiseh i think no actual harm is done (though there may be an issur of oinaas devarim….) but If I say I think “lkjhgf” (ploni) is a shikkur and has no clue what he’s talking about… we all know maybe who ploni is by screen name but we have no clue in real life so…. is it just not a good habbit or actual LH? Hope that made sense. I assume it is anyway but just curious (sorry curious to use your name!)

are we going to get an update soon?

thanx curious

what in heaven’s name??? a peach???

Curious: lol!!! your a peach!! never heard that one b4???

wow. they say you learn something new every day. i guess this was it. i think i’m gonna make it my new thing :} lol it’s a weird one!

Shkoyach wrote:

Wait, I have a shaila…. if… (ad the shaila niggun as I ask) we all are anonymous as in a site like YW and we insult ppl and talk abt ppl when we make fun of them, does it hold like Loshon Hara mamish cuz l’maiseh i think no actual harm is done (though there may be an issur of oinaas devarim….) but If I say I think “lkjhgf” (ploni) is a shikkur and has no clue what he’s talking about… we all know maybe who ploni is by screen name but we have no clue in real life so…. is it just not a good habbit or actual LH?

It is certainly not a good habit and is quite possibly loshon harah. Using “chofetzchaim” as an example, even though you don’t know him by face, he does have an identity with a name attached to it so if you make fun of “choftezchaim” you are making fun of an actual person. When he reads the comment, he may feel pain or embarrassment. Furthermore, you may degrade him in the eyes of the other posters and in the future when they see a post by him they might associate it with a different type of person than they used to which would therefore make it loshon hara (IMHO) even though you don’t know him “personally”. Furthermore, there may be people on here who know who he is and when they read a derogatory comment it is certainly loshon hara because he might now be embarrassed the next time he sees these people. Sorry for picking on you “chofetzchaim” and I hope this makes sense.

Maybe the “chofetzchaim” has something to say about this?

Try putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. Would you want another poster to say this about you? Even if you wouldn’t mind, think about it from the other person’s perspective. The other person might have friends who know who he is who will read the post, the other person might be more sensitive than you, etc.

The Rambam wrote (Hilchos De’os Perek 7): “Lashon Ho’rah is something which, if known to others, causes the person damage to his person or finances, or causes him pain or frightens him.” I guess the question here is whether an insult of a screen-name is considered “known to others”. I would say it is for the same reason that YW Moderator-42 wrote that some people might actually know who the person is. Even if nobody actually knows them personally, people do know them by their screen-name and insulting them can therefore still cause “damage” or “pain”. People may no longer respect that particular poster’s opinion anymore, etc.

This might be a bit of a stretch but, let’s make a comparison to insulting “The Rav of Shul Ploni” among a group of friends. Let’s say that nobody in the group knows the Rav personally or will ever actually meet him. They know him by a title. Yet, it can still cause him “damage” or “pain” if he ever finds out what was said even though he doesn’t know anybody in the group personally. If this particular Rav now issues a psak, the people in the group might treat it differently then they would have beforehand because of what was said. So too here, if you insult a particular member, it could be that nobody here knows who he is but if this member now posts an opinion, this opinion will be treated differently because of what was said previously and it could cause pain to that poster.

Nice post shkoyach.

I’ve gotten shidduch calls where I really had to think of how to formulate my words to say it properly. If the person calling says, “Hi, I’m xyz calling for shidduch info about abc,” then I may have the excuse of saying “I’d like to help you, I’m in middle of something important now, can we be in touch in half an hour,” etc.

Or how about the rude, “I have a beep coming in, just a minute…”?

It’s much harder this way:

xyz: “Hi, my name is xyz, do you have a few minutes?”

Curious: “sure”

xyz: “I’d like to know shidduch info about abc”

Too late to say I’m busy now….

What has helped me get through some of these calls is to first ask: “Tell me about the boy/girl you’re considering this person for.” First, it’s easier to answer when you know where they’re coming from – not to c”v lie or mislead, but rather to word it in an appropriate manner. Second, I think it may even be a shmiras halashon requirement. I’m going to look it up in a sefer now…

So true how words are interpreted the way the listener wants to hear it.

Friend: “Curious is a great kid, very outgoing, fun, etc.”

Mother: “Oh, that sounds too loud for my child.”

Try again.

Friend: “Curious is very fine, sincere, sensitive, etc.”

Mother: “Way too introverted for my gem of a child.”

How about words like “open-minded”, “wordly”, and my favorite – “yeshivish”. I bet you if I’d ask 10 members here to define yeshivish, we’d get 65 different definitions. All these words are so incredibly relative to the speaker’s/listener’s background. It means something so different for everyone. I’ve actually gotten into philosophical discussions with parents on shidduch calls regarding these relative words. What does this mean, “Is xyz frum?” ?!?!

You have to try your best and allow the Ultimate Matchmaker to arrange for selective hearing.

curious, about what you said with the terms lie yeshivish etc… I have seen MANY misunderstandings because of it!!!

Also are we finished with posting halachos??

Well I’ll post from the sefer I am learning the day that I am up to:

RECHILUS (causing bad feelings between ppl) IS FORBIDDEN EVEN WHEN

A) YOU WRITE THE INFO B) YOU AGREE WITH THE INFO C) YOU WOULD REPEAT IT IN FRONT OF THE SPEAKER.

for example: Baruch tells you “Your brother is so selfish. He never does a favor for me when I ask him to!” It is assur to repeat this to your brother even if you wouldn’t be afraid to say it in front of Baruch.

It happens to be even worse if you say it in front of Baruch because if he isn’t there your brother could assume you misunderstood Baruch. But if Baruch hears and says nothing then your brother knows for sure he said it and it will magnify the bad feelings.

Ma Pleeezzzzzzzure!

shkoyach; we sure am!!!!

Learning shmiras halashon really helps… it doesnt happen overnight but I cant tell you how many times I have caught myself and held back recently!!!!

and it really hurts to hear it from other people not even talking to you!

never give up, I thought I would never be at this point and still I have a whole lot more to control when it comes to it but I really feel that its starting to set in!

are we ever gonna get a daily lesson the cchf? cuz we dont seem to be so on top of our random lessons

for the sake of it… tonights halacha on rechilus: Even if you are being pressured to say it you MAY NOT reveal the info. And this is even if its your mother, father, boss, or other important person SO MUCH SO THAT YOU NEED TO BE WILLING TO GIVE UP YOUR JOB instead of saying the rechilus, how much more so if it wont cost you your job.

Its amazing how chamur it is, yet its so easy to slip it by!