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It seems to me that a girl being overweight these days is as big a hindrance to her finding a shidduch as lack of money was several years ago.
What do you say?
Maybe, but then they should be the first ones hired as teachers.
It isn’t true. A poor person can always become rich, but can an overweight person become not?
Being overweight is as big a hindrance as being overweight was years ago.
Then why are there so many overweight married women?
They became overweight after they got married.
If that’s true, and what popa says is true, it disproves the old adage “what goes up must come down”.
It seems to me that a guy being very short these days is as big a hindrance to his finding a shidduch as lack of money was years ago.
What do you all say?
It seems to me that a girl being overweight these days is as big a hindrance to her finding a shidduch as lack of money was several years ago.
The problem with poor girls getting a shidduch has been fixed??
When did this issue improve?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has a mate you just have to find it. It’s just the shadchunim are only looking to setup the ones that are easy.
I was pretty heavy when I got married and kept putting on weight
I’m worried that there is a sizable chance that my kinderlach will end up being short because of that. I’m not sure what to think since I wouldn’t want to spread any vertical challenges to others.
And it is possible to become not overweight, but current culture’s most favored method is not exactly in line with yiddishkeit (the gym).
I agree with golfer, short guys have it pretty tough. I know I wouldn’t even consider going out with someone shorter than me.
But overweight girls are usually pretty. The most pretty girls I know are considered ‘fat’, which is such a shame. Most people don’t like that stick-thin look anyway. In my opinion you’re better off being the overweight girl than the short guy. It’s also that short guys don’t even have a chance to change their height. It’s unfortunate.
Tall girls also have it hard in shidduchim.
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/the-tall-girl-shidduch-crisis
It’s not the “overweight” that is the issue. It’s that our definition of what constitutes being overweight for a girl, has changed so drastically from when I was in my dating years some 40 years ago. A girl who was a size 2 or even 4 in my day, was considered nearly anorexic. My friends and I were a couple of sizes larger and we were ALL slim. Lucille Ball was a 12, and I doubt anyone thought she was overweight.
So unless manufacturers have re-named and re-sized everything in the world of dress size, it is our own fault that people look at girls’ dress sizes altogether. And that is SO untzniusdig, btw.
And another thing, directed to the males : ARE ALL OF YOU SO FIT AND TRIM??????? Or even well-groomed? Just sayin’…
Miriam377 – “I was pretty heavy when I got married and kept putting on weight”
Obviously, the best thing is to lose weight, by diet & exercise. When it doesn’t work – you should have a lipid profile. Depends on the result, you might need Medication(s)!
So unless manufacturers have re-named and re-sized everything in the world of dress size
Actually, I’ve heard that manufacturers have been enlarging
the sizes that correspond to the numbers so that people can
feel good about what size they’re wearing…
Males: Are all of you so fit and trim??????? Or even well-groomed?
Looks are considered far more important for a girl than for a boy.
Is that how it should be? Is it possible for it to be otherwise?
Who knows? But given the value placed on it for girls but not for boys, this argument is comparable to asking whether those girls
who want to marry good learners are lamdonim and masmidim.
I wonder what you’d find if you looked back 800 years ago. What did people look for in shidduchim then?
But given the value placed on it for girls but not for boys, this argument is comparable to asking whether those girls
who want to marry good learners are lamdonim and masmidim.
Bad comparison. Guys objectively should be lamdonim to the best of their ability. Girls, objectively, need not be thin. Indeed it is vanity the type of demands often place upon them.
What craziness. Speaking as a 50+ with married kids, let me give you (my) perspective.
Any of the circumstances described above (poverty, overweight etc.) can be changed. And the reverse is true to (Rich, thin, etc). We all have the ability to change and Hashem can change things in a flash.
From my experience, what is truly deep down (hashkafa, midos, etc.) are more likely to stay and be refined with a good partner.All this outside stuff is noise meant to distract us from what is important.
Girls ideally should be whatever weight is healthiest (not always the same as what society considers most beautiful).
Yidesh_k, thanks for joining us and raising the median age (which sometimes seems to hover at around 16).
As for your comment-
Yes, HKBH is of course able to change a person’e girth, height, wealth, and any other physical property, as you mention, in a flash.
However, for the most part, what you see is what you get.
The Frumguy was not suggesting that a wise person will pay most attention to the physical attributes of a prospective spouse, as opposed to to what is truly deep down. He merely stated that it seems to him that overweight is the new poverty. And he may in fact be correct.
Whether or not that proves that young people in shidduchim today are shallow, superficial, short-sighted and vapid, is up for discussion.
(Some of the more learned posters here, may shoot down that idea by quoting sources that date back many many years suggesting the advisability of a man choosing a wife that looks nice to him.)
(Some of the more learned posters here, may shoot down that idea by quoting sources that date back many many years suggesting the advisability of a man choosing a wife that looks nice to him.)
Or I might.
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Even if you want to say that the gemara is lamenting rather than advising, it’s certainly nothing new.
Joseph, I was responding to an argument which questioned whether men who wanted a certain quality in their mates had it themselves.
The point was that different qualities are desired – for the comparison,
it doesn’t matter how important any of those qualities actually are.
And another thing, directed to the males : ARE ALL OF YOU SO FIT AND TRIM??????? Or even well-groomed? Just sayin’…
Why bother? In the Yeshiva shidduch system, having a Y chromosome is usually sufficient to get married.
having a Y chromosome is usually sufficient to get married.
Y is of a higher value than X. 🙂
“And another thing, directed to the males : ARE ALL OF YOU SO FIT AND TRIM??????? Or even well-groomed? Just sayin’… “
Yes, if you pick the right opinions.
I wonder what you’d find if you looked back 800 years ago. What did people look for in shidduchim then?
A full set of teeth and hair without lice.
What about staying married?
By the way, heavier women are usually more fertile than thinner women.
Also, boys tend to be attracted to heavy girls with money or with the right yichus, so it seems.
Most boys would go out with an overweight girl, it’s the boy’s mother that’s the problem. The other problem is that a picture is usually required prior to the first date. This is assuming that she is not over 350 lbs & 5’5″, then there might be a health problem.
Wealth isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Thirty years ago I knew of a case a couple was about to be engaged the groom’s father wanted the promised 5 years of income @ $30,000.00 per year,so he could learn, which was a lot of money back then, up front. The Bride’s father was agreeable to the 5 years of support, but couldn’t swing it up front, so it was called off.
Abba_S -“This is assuming that she is not over 350 lbs & 5’5″, then there might be a health problem.”
There might be a health issue, even if the girl isn’t a 300 pounder!
“Wealth isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Thirty years ago I knew of a case a couple was about to be engaged the groom’s father wanted the promised 5 years of income @ $30,000.00 per year,so he could learn, which was a lot of money back then”
Is she still around? I’ll take 30 grand, even nowadays! The only thing is the $ has to remain in the girl’s Reshus. (Legal issues)
Looks are considered far more important for a girl than for a boy.”
Ask most girls who are dating and if they are honest,they will tell you differently. They want a boy who is attractive to them also, and if he is overweight, slovenly, unkempt or has bad breath, they WILL notice. Everyone wants to be attracted to their zivug.
As to the “Y” chromosome being one thing or another, or guys ideally looking for thin girls, it seems Hashem Himself made the decision that girls OUGHT to be heavier, as He created girls to be a 2X. :::fleeing now::: (I am not explaining this to guys who may not get this reference).
Most CR opinions agree that boys have more choice in shidduchim. If this is true, girls can’t choose based on looks, but boys can.
OOmis – I don’t mind to marry an obese girl. And besides, if a woman won’t control her weight – it’s good for my business!
In my own, personal, clearly biased observations, I’ve met married people with all sorts of abhorrent traits – physical, intellectual, ethical, behavioral, etc. So, there’s no set of traits that assures success or failure in the shidduch game.
In the end, shidduchim – and many things in life for that matter – is about salesmanship. If the product isn’t selling, then improve the product or find less discriminating customers.
Yes, it sounds crass and perhaps it is, but hiding one’s head in the sand and howling at the moon isn’t going to solve anything.
Either stop obsessing about how the world *ought* to be and deal with the world as it is or learn to live without the things you seek.
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