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theshver, for sure go say that to all the frummed out guys who went OTD and went on drugs and got tattoos.
Hats off to any bochur like 2.0
I agree (theoretically) but you have to do extensive research to find out why people did the things that they did. I do not think a bochur like 2.0 (assuming he’s really legit) should lose out on a good girl c”v but a lot of perspective girls / parents do not have the time / patience / wherewithall (or trust?) to go for it…
rebshidduch I do not understand
bmyer I deffinetly hear your side but I agree with 2.0 that people don’t give a chance sometimes for reasons even they do not understand
This kind of judgmentalness is part of what sends people off in the first place. @Bochur2.0 did an amazing thing coming back. Let’s not be the ones to ruin it.
Future, I am not saying that it is not good that he came back on. In fact I am saying that it is good that he did. But, once again I know guys who went off and came back on and I have the right to tell people not to date those kinds of guys who went off because their both in different boats. One saw the real world and the other did not and so they have different understandings of life.
theshver, the funny part is that I definitely do give guys a chance to date girls who never went off. So much so that I date guys who did. So how am I being judgmental?
If you read what I wrote I NEVER said it’s the right thing but I EXPLAINED why this is the situation…
IT is NEVER ok to be judgemental it is ALWAYS ok to be thorough when looking for a wife (or husband) some people just say no because they are not interested in being thorough or think that you can’t be thorough enough.
It sounds like we both know people of similar backgrounds then, and it’s understandable why some people should not date some of them. But just because people come from different backgrounds, or have a different understanding of life doesn’t mean they can’t date, opposites attract, and differences provide a needed balance in any marriage, that’s part of the blessing of marriage. I don’t think people understand that his experience in other areas of life is a pro, not a con. It gives him a deeper understanding of what life is about, he’s ‘been there done that’ and realizes what’s true in the world and what the proper things in life are, and actually believes in them, as evidenced by him coming back. Whereas many people his age with an always-frum background never had that exposure, and quite possibly (or even probably), don’t have his appreciation for God, religion, and Judaism, because they never knew anyone else. Sure, if people only see this as a con, they will criticize, but if they look at both sides of the issue, they’ll see why almost any girl would be lucky to have him.
” I don’t think people understand that his experience in other areas of life is a pro, not a con. “
I’ll make sure to tell people to go otd before shidduchim so they have more “experience in other areas”…
“no one in my yeshiva in Israel besides the rosh even knows that I went “otd” and probably wouldn’t believe me if I told them.”
So why are you so worried about all this?
Joseph: Clearly the girls / their fathers know / find out…
bochur, how did you hide it so well and why are you so concerned then?
Shopping -“Meaning they had to say goodbye to not getting a guy who didn’t come with “issues””
What kind of issues? Some are non-negotiable; others are just fluff!
Bochor 2.0: Why, do you think, the other side has the right to know? Is the information relevant about your future marriage?
He’s right.
They need to know, because if they found out later and it was withheld it could cause mistrust.
I guess you are strictly right that only relevant information one would be “required” to divulge.
But he’s a hasid not a tzaddik.
I agree with FuturePOTUS that many times people who have been off come back stronger in their yiddishkeit than many others, in regards to what bmyer’s sarcasm about how everyone should go off -i dont think anyone was suggesting that, obviously if everyone went off that would make for a ton of aveiros and probably the majority would not end up coming back like Bochur 2.0, but that doesn’t mean that if someone did go OTD and come back he wouldn’t be stronger than most in some regards, after all he clearly is not just serving hashem because thats how he grew up or thats what everyone else is doing.
However I have been in shidduchim for almost a year and have not gone out a single time.
I understand that this can be frustrating. But, remember that you are only looking for one girl. Whether you go out 100 times or none before meeting her shouldn’t matter, as long as you meet her in the right time with the right mindset. Of course, dating multiple girls before meeting the right one can have advantages such as learning more about yourself, life, etc. Hashem gives you the life situations that are good for you and He will help you meet the right one at the right time. Hatzlacha
Bochur 2.0
42 said it best. I would just like to forward some info sent in by a lurker with a kind heart:
if b2.0 is serious about considering someone with a past, Ohr Naava has something called the ‘Shidduch Initiative’ and perhaps he might do well contacting the shadchanim or finding a way to make himself known to one of the teachers etc. There are three different programs connected to Ohr Naava. One is shiurim open to the public, another is a high school for girls with difficult situations (abuse, drugs) and a seminary, which I believe attracts girls from their high school who are solid but still out of the box due to their background, so i was just thinking that he might do well with a girl from there.
You are going to the wrong shadchanim.
My husband and I, from yeshivish backgrounds, have a modern orthodox home. Our children chose a different path. When they were in shidduchim, wanting boys who were, and would continue to be, learners, we discovered that shadchanim in strictly yeshivish communities could/would not help them. They “cannot see out of the box”. So we went to shadchanim from out of town yeshivas, YU Black, friends, family, etc.
Our children found their basherts, some young, some at an older age, but they all got WHAT they deserved. It is years later, and their husbands are still in learning. And they are living the life they chose.
Find the right shadchan and be patient. If they have no one for you, then you need to approach a different chadchan. You need to find someone who WANTS to work with you.
Much hatzlacha.
from Long Island – excellent advice. I would just like to make one correction: I’m not sure if it’s fair to make such a generalization about shadchanim from strictly Yeshivish communities. I think it’s not that they can’t see out of the box, but simply that they are dealing with a particular type of boy/girl. Every shadchan has a certain niche that they deal with.
Yes, he founded it.
long island, are you sure they will not work with girls from more modern families?
Perhaps you will find the right girl for you in a different place then you ordinarily look.
Sorry to interrupt your thread, OP, but every time I see the title I keep hearing myself say,
“He’avar ayin, ve’he’assid adayin, ve’ha’hoveh kehereff ayin, da’aga minayin?”
So don’t worry about the past. One way or another, we all have pasts.
May your future be bright and happy!
Bochur – I also think that mod 29’s idea sounds like a great idea. I don’t have first hand knowledge of Rav Wallerstein’s schools, but I have heard about both him and his programs, and both he and his programs sound wonderful.
2.0 you should know the night after I read this post my brother (who learns with bochurim nightseder) called to say he has a boy my daughter must go out with but… He has a past. I really couldn’t believe the closeness in time between these two occurrences, anyway since it was my brother who I trust very much and the uncanny feeling that Hashem made me read this post for a reason, I gave an almost immediate yes, my daughter came home after the first date glowing saying how she never met such a mature sincere boy! I don’t know where it will go or if its because of his past but I’m literally in disbelief about these turn of events.
theshver: Sending your daughter blessings 🙂
Theshver- wow!
Just proves that there is tachlis to the CR. May this give you chizuk, bochur.
Parents are worried about changes in the future. When you say that you went OTD for a time and now came back, can they find out what caused the slide to start with, can they learn in advance what pulls back there you might still have? A lot of parents won’t want their daughter to have to figure out these things on the actual dates, as they are sensitive issues and she might be embarrassed or some such thing. They would have to trust her a lot and also trust that the boy will be open and honest if she asks about it. It is easier to steer clear of these issues and find someone who doesn’t have them to start with.
I do think that you will be happier with someone who understands what you got involved with and why you left it, etc, from her own experiences, like a BT or someone who grew up more modern and became more frum. Shadchanim who deal with girls like that are probably a better address for you. But most importantly, DON’T LOSE HOPE. The right girl is out there for you. It may take a little longer to find her, but this is all part of the big plan. HBK”H loves so much the hard work you put in to turn your life back around, He won’t abandon you. Your tefillos will be answered at the right time. Since you’re not really so old, it could be that your future kallah just has to do some more work on herself to be ready to get such a terrific shidduch.
The Coffee Room and other frum publications have reported many times that there is a shidduch crisis that is destroying the hopes of marrying-age frum women. The opening poster’s problem finding a shidduch suggests that there may be no such crisis for women.
Only if you think that the shidduch crisis means that there are no boys in the world.
I remember reading in the safer shar-ray teshuva concerning the many challenges given to the bal teshuva as punishments for sins committed in the past.
In other words in order to be free of punishment in the post life
the bal teshuva must pay something in this world for his past bad behavior.
This then maybe the reason for your difficulties in finding a shidduch.
But don’t fret.
When the all mighty will send you a kallah no one on earth will interfere.
I remember reading in the talmud.
Someone asking what does hakadosh borach hu do all day ?
The answer was arrange shidduchim.I guess I will be joining the list of shidduchim for those with a past.
Rebshidduch – that doesn’t sound very good.
Lilmod, it was a joke. I only date the best of the best boys.
What makes someone the best of boys?
not according to what you wrote in other threads.
Reb Yid, the best boys love serving Hashem.
Lilmod, I think you have a very wrong impression of him. He may have a tatoo, but that does not mean he is any less of a Jew than you or me. His neshama had a very hard road compared to yours or mine. Now, he is back on the derech looking for a beautiful precious Jewish girl to build a neman biyisroel with.
Reb Shidduch, my impression of him is based solely on what you wrote about him before you started dating him and let your emotions take over.
There is a reason for the shidduch system. The main point is that shidduchim are checked out before you start dating. Even though you just “happened” to meet him, you can still “check him out” and I would advise that you do that.
I would also advise that you discuss this “shidduch” with your parents.
Lilmod, it happens to be we are family friends with his close friend. It also happens to be that he has come to my house before and has met my mother before.
Does she know that you want to date him?
Reb Yid, not yet. First we will iyh start dating and then she will find out.
I thought you had started already? Maybe it would be a good idea to discuss it with your mother first as well as another trusted adult. See what others who are aren’t emotionally involved think about it.
Lilmod, please stop insulting the guy I might soon start dating. I like him and am happy with him and he makes me happy so that is all that matters. His friend is going to start laughing when he finds out his friend is dating a close family friend because he cannot see us together. But then he will be like good for his friend for getting a good nice frum girl.
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