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While I agree that there is such an idea as someone being photogenic or not (there is actually some science behind it), by looking at a picture, one can still ‘weed out’ people who are clearly unattractive. It may sound rough, because it is. I didn’t say that I use pictures to pick out the most good-looking woman, but yes, I will say no to someone whose picture is unattractive to me. I have neither the time nor the koach to go out with every single girl suggested, and this is one of the ways of whittling the suggestions down.
Pumper, I can’t say I appreciate your sarcasm. I was adding my personal opinion and don’t need to be attacked for it. I assure you that all normal guys will absolutely judge you based on your photograph. A solution I see, if you look so horrible in pictures, is to refuse to send any. One possible problem is that some may wonder what you’re hiding.
A23,
Maybe don’t look at the pictures. or tell them not to send the picture. this way your brain can make the decisions…. wouldnt it be a shame if your bashert was mentioned to you, but you turned her down due to a (“bad/non flattering”) picture? now you get to spend the rest of your life alone, or worse, with the wrong person…..
v’lo sussuru…….v’acharei eineichem……
A23
Ignore them…there’s nothing wrong with what you’re doing.
A23-
to each their own i guess. you do it ur way if that works for you! i hope you find one that makes you very happy very soon!!!!
How about this?
In every society, there have always been traits which were considered attractive.
In China, women were supposed to have small feet, so they used to bind their feet so they wouldn’t grow.
In the Kayan culture, women are supposed to put coils on their neck so it stretches.
In the scheme of things, an infatuation with being a normal weight, is a lot better than those alternatives.
(Popa: you don’t know what normal is. Women are being coerced into being waaaaaaay below normal weight. Normal weight is 180 lbs.)
Now you don’t even need to respond.
In Europe, when poverty was the norm, our grandparents considered it a good and healthy state to being larger and bulkier, as too many people were too thin due to their lack of proper nutrition.
trak443
you do a disservice to g-d by quoting him partially. I believe the good book says “asher atem zonim achareihem.” What does this have to do with znus?
Being a good yeshiva boy. i think we have the right to the most attractive wife we can get. we never fooled around with all the pretty ones. so when we are just picking one we want to be picky and find the prettiest one-AND OF COURSE THE BEST MOTHER FOR OUR KIDS. we guys should be in no rush and the right one will come our way.
Girls you just need to realize that the most important thing to get a date is your appearance. so go diet even size 0 girls. we don’t like enerixients. and we dont like fast matabolisms , that your gonna eat more then us and still stay a bone.
don’t worry g-d has a mate for all of us.
maynish-
I sure hope that your post is a joke, because I seriously got nauseous reading it. Hold on while I gag…
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/health/12orthodox.html Please read this article if you want to know the true effect of weight and its emphasis in shidduchim.
i was discussing this blog with someone over shabbos, who said something intelligent (i thought).
when dating, his focus was “what type of grandchildren would i like to have?”
this woman will have a large influence on the type of house and therefore the type of children you will have, which will have a large influence on the type of grandchildren you will have.
probably a little more important than her weight between the l’chaim and her first pregnancy…..
BITACHON
“What does this have to do with znus?”
How about everything? Don’t even try to tell me that the size 0 wife makes a better wife and mother. Which is fine… just own up to it.
“Being a good yeshiva boy. i think we have the right to the most attractive wife we can get. we never fooled around with all the pretty ones.”
At least someone finally had guts to say it like it is. That is the bottom line, you feel that since you never fooled around you are OWED the prettiest girl you can get. REALITY CHECK: Jewish men aren’t (bederech hateva) what to look at, and good Bais Yaakov girls dont fool around either and we dont ‘demand’ the same perfection you do. At the end of the day the Barbie Doll is also going to have your kids and be with you (hopefully) until the end, after the novelty of it all wears off, so maybe think for a minute is this the person I want to raise my kids and who I want to spend the next 60 yrs with?
edited
A gitte voch to u all..
I empathize with all of you..But if You have the right attitude all will be well!
I was a size 12-14 many years ago..and most of the boys I went out with didnt want to continue cuz of my weight- my mom was more upset than I was. and I kept saying whoever is only interested in my looks, and not what I am really all about..they are not for me!
Well at age 20something I finally got married to someone who saw what I was really worth! and got pregnant..
surprize-surprize during pregnany I first lost 11 lbs and then gained bak 16 lbs. so after birth instead of a bulge i had a pit in my stomach. and after that i went down to a size 6 (which my mom said I would never be) and stayed that way for quite a few years even during pregnancies. after a certain age it did not go down so fast though.. but by that time I was almost starting to marry off my own kids..
just as a by the way I got feedback from a few of the guys I met, they married skinny girls and as soon as they had a baby they beacame very overweight well guess who had the last laugh!
I know quite a few girls that became very thin during pregnancy and stayed that way!
so there is hope everyone! Just Keep the faith up!
I promise my post made sense before it was edited.
sorry, I tried my best. You can try redoing it yourself if you want, and I’ll switch it.
Na, its ok, at least someone was privy to my brilliance in its natural form 😉
i understood what you were saying sac
Trak443 & Sacrilige…Thank you for restoring some much needed sanity to this thread. I think it’s a good point (for & from BOTH sides) to keep their eyes on looking to a solid future, than just looking at the fluctuating present.
Mom12…Looking back, do you see that when you were dating & being a size 12-14 that is was more of a blessing? Did any of the guys that you got feedback from, say anything about what they SHOULD/WISH they would have looked for in a female?
This thread makes me sick.
I’d like to believe that the majority of people are internal, thinking individuals who do not only focus on the external.
Unfortunately, I see that I am wrong. Since when has this Torahdike attitude become the minority amongst people who claim to be bnei torah?
“This thread makes me sick.
I’d like to believe that the majority of people are internal, thinking individuals who do not only focus on the external.
Unfortunately, I see that I am wrong. Since when has this Torahdike attitude become the minority amongst people who claim to be bnei torah?”
AGREED!!! i spent the entire night crying bec of this thread
awww… cofeefan-
I’m sorry that this thread made you emotional.
Sometimes I feel like crying also!
Remember, there are some normal people out there (few and far between but they do exist, I hope!)
there are some normal people out there (few and far between
Hee Hee. That sounds funny.
No popa, I am not including you in the few normal ones that are left!
Though I think calling you normal would actually insult you…
just to add my 2 cents…..
if a guy wants a supermodel, or a girl wants a handsome prince, maybe he/she should take a step back and see if the chitzonius is so important? isn’t it the inside of the girl/boy that counts? the girl/boy doesn’t have to be beautiful to the entire world!!! its just the spouse that has to be attracted to his/her wife/husband!!
BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER!!
i agree, if u want a top shidduch u gotta be in shape, bottom line is if ur heavy then the heavy guys wont look at you because they know that the skinny good looking girls think they are funny!
Cofeefan & Pumper – Don’t worry so much. The fact that you’re eyes were opened to this atrocity is probably not due to the fact that G-d wants you to be miserable for the state of the world, but because He is showing you that you both have a role in changing this situation. I’m sure that if the both of you look around, you’ll find that you are in places that you can affect the situation for the better.
But remember, there are areas in ALL of our lives where we ALL fall into the same kind of trap. It just so happens that this is NOT one of them.
Aries2576 wrote “Hey guys, some of you should take a good look in the mirror. Girls don’t want fatsos either!” Beautiful response. It needs to be said over and over again. I’m sending your reply to my unmarried sons. What is so unrealistic is that our young men are conditioned to want it all. The beautiful wife, babies, delicious meals and the size 2. Well said, Thank you.
Can we stop with this blame game? These conversations accomplish nothing except getting people upset.
and fact is, once guy is on a date – if he likes the girl, other stuff don’t bother him. on paper, they may say they want the skinny girl. but if the girl listens to him, respects him, etc. most guys would find that girl attractive.
one rebetzin, i know, said that she never talks about looks, because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. once, a guy who said he wants only a gorgeous girl asked this rebetzin about a particular girl. now, the rebetzin felt like she couldn’t lie, and said that she is not particularly beautiful.
well, the guy, went out with this girl, and forever cannot forgive the rebetzin for having thought that his now WIFE is not stunning.
relax! i have heard so many stupidities – smart people get married late, guys only want size 2, etc. etc. Hashem has a shidduch for each and every person!
binahyeseira – As a guy, I agree & can also say that once I get to know a girl, her looks actually change; a pretty girl with a “ticked off” attitude suddenly looks like a HORRIFIC MONSTER…. but another girl that might be a plus size that I can “click with” all of a sudden looks amazingly beautiful.
Either way, my rabbi (who does marriage counseling) says that many men follow the burning sensation (you know, the whole “butterfly” thing) in their chest when they try to decide on a woman. My rabbi says that this is the yetzer hora blinding a man to the fact that this woman’s personality is at odds with his own & when they fire is gone, that’s when the guy suddenly realizes that he might not have married the best woman for him.
My rabbi also gave me the advice that when a man looks for a wife, he should find a girl with a personality that makes him feel like she is a close sister. But that when he looks at her, he doesn’t feel that she looks like his sister….it’s all relative (excuse the pun), but the idea is that the guy finds a wife that he gets along with, but also is attractive to him (not what is attractive to society).
My rabbi also gave me the advice that when a man looks for a wife, he should find a girl with a personality that makes him feel like she is a close sister. But that when he looks at her, he doesn’t feel that she looks like his sister….it’s all relative (excuse the pun), but the idea is that the guy finds a wife that he gets along with, but also is attractive to him (not what is attractive to society).
i like that a lot – that’s a great description.
though, i hope the guy likes his sister. 😉
As a naturally extremely skinny girl who has been in shidduchim for 2 years now, I can assure you that we do NOT have it easier in shidduchim. I was told at least twice that “many boys are not looking for a girl that is too skinny”.
I have never had eating problems and am very healthy. Many of my friends have gotten engaged and very few were a size 0-4.
So I don’t know if this is as widespread as you are all assuming it is. OTOH I assume that most girls who are engaged, are too busy to post on YWN, so that could make it harder to hear from the girls who were overweight and engaged.
Hatzlacha Rabba and remember, we each have our peckl in shidduchim… IYH we should all find the right one quickly in the right time and greet Moshiach together!
amen!
Sorry to say but this thread makes me sick.
Re: Posters who are pointing out that many women put on weight after kids anyway.
Most guys I know think that is a reason to insist on an even lighter girl than they imagine they can be attracted to. They think that if attraction is borderline now, then after kids they will not be able to handle it.
So this argument usually backfires. Don’t tell it to a guy who is concerned about a girl he is dating.
pba Re: Posters who are pointing out that many women put on weight after kids anyway.
Most guys I know think that is a reason to insist on an even lighter girl than they imagine they can be attracted to. They think that if attraction is borderline now, then after kids they will not be able to handle it.
So this argument usually backfires. Don’t tell it to a guy who is concerned about a girl he is dating.
mom12 already addressed this point by saying:
I was a size 12-14 many years ago..and most of the boys I went out with didnt want to continue cuz of my weight- my mom was more upset than I was. and I kept saying whoever is only interested in my looks, and not what I am really all about..they are not for me!
Well at age 20something I finally got married to someone who saw what I was really worth! and got pregnant..
surprize-surprize during pregnany I first lost 11 lbs and then gained bak 16 lbs. so after birth instead of a bulge i had a pit in my stomach. and after that i went down to a size 6 (which my mom said I would never be) and stayed that way for quite a few years even during pregnancies. after a certain age it did not go down so fast though.. but by that time I was almost starting to marry off my own kids..
just as a by the way I got feedback from a few of the guys I met, they married skinny girls and as soon as they had a baby they beacame very overweight well guess who had the last laugh!
I know quite a few girls that became very thin during pregnancy and stayed that way!
There are so many girls who are anorexic because of this. (I am one of them.)
Funny, isn’t it, how the current system of resumes and qualifications before dating can work against us. Weight is not just a number. A girl with a few extra pounds who knows how to dress and stands tall and proud can be very attractive, but a checklist with a dress size will rule her out. My husband and I met when a mutual acquaintance saw two people she thought could relate and would like each other. We compared notes later, after we were engaged, and realized that we had a few more friends in common, but we didn’t match each other’s stated requirements, so they never put us together.
Anyway, I have seen many overweight girls get married to fine young men. You have the advantage here – you will find someone who is looking for more than just ‘arm candy’. (someone to show off)
His Royal Highness
Yeah, but generally it doesn’t work this way…
sister bear-
agree with you 100%
I also feel nauseous reading these attitudes,and the worst part is that they don’t see anything wrong with that way of thinking… hello??????
maynish,
I like to read the CR to hear opinions and thoughts of others in the frum world on all the contemporary issues that are brought up here. However, it is posts like yours that make me doubt the validity and seriousness of posters. If you are for real, then you need a serious reality check and a big dose of some guidance. If you were throwing that in to stir some people up and create debate material, please know that I’m sure your post was very hurtful to many. This is a very, very, sensitive issue for ALL girls and women, whether they are thin or not, and the way that you, and the others who posted in a similar way to you, discuss women and their weights/figures is so degrading and humiliating it actually makes me sick.
I am all for guys being attracted to their wives/wanting to date and marry pretty women, etc. But it is not ok to discuss women like this–Bnos Yisrael deserve to be treated with utmost respect and sensitivity. Further, this whole discussion is a breach of tznius, in my very humble opinion, for men and women alike–I find it highly inappropriate to discuss the details of women’s body shape, before or after pregnancies, or their overall structure.
This topic has been discussed many times on these boards, and as the threads go on, the posts from the males perspective become more and more “loose” in their tone, and in their implications of how they want their women to look. I’m actually sitting at my computer embarrassed from the way this discussion has turned–I can’t believe that this is going on on a website that calls itself “yeshiva world”. I am reiterating again that while DO believe that as shidduchim go, men need to be attracted to the women they date AND VICE VERSA, limiting women to their figures, and then having the chutzpah to discuss your taivos proudly with the whole world, is downright demeaning and, frankly, sickening. Please, please stop–you have no idea what you are doing to so many girls by promoting this kind of talk.
pba
If thats the way you truly feel you don’t deserve children more over a wife to give you any.
dunno
Men don’t respect you more when you sell yourself.
edited lol
Sac: That is hardly the most insensitive thing I have said.
In fact, that was hardly insensitive at all.
Speaking about a woman like a piece of machinery? Yea, pretty insensitive.
like a piece of machinery
You mean because I said “backfires”? I wasn’t talking about a car engine.
I’ll assume you are really referring to our ongoing discussion about weight, and not my comments on this particular thread. You will notice I have been highly restrained. Probably because this thread started as a discussion of the feelings of women in this situation.
lol for pba’s new subtitle.
Sac: he wasn’t saying that he believes that – he was just saying that it’s a stupid argument to tell people, which i agree.
i really think that the people who are making the biggest deal are not the guy’s, but rather their mothers.
I like the new subtitle.
It puts everything upfront.
But, now people don’t know I might be over the top. Hmmm.
42- I’m guessing this was you, since you just posted.
blabla: are you really anorexic because some people are crazy? wouldn’t you like to marry a guy who cares about who you are and not how skinny you are. besides which, being anorexic is very not good for your health and it can affect your ability to have children in the future. if you truly are anorexic, please get help.
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