Shidduchim & Weight

I agree with you on some points. A girl shouldn’t be turned down sight unseen. However, to say that weight shouldn’t be a factor at all is ridiculous. A man must find his wife attractive. If a guy doesn’t think the girl is good-looking, he shouldn’t marry her.

Something once happened to a friend of mine from Yeshiva. He asked our Rosh Yeshiva for advice. he was dating a girl. The conversation was great, they were on the same page hashkafically, etc. He had one problem: he didn’t think she was good looking at all. As he told the Rosh Yeshiva, “I could probably talk to her on the phone for hours. Even in person, once the conversation gets going, it’s great. I just don’t like the way she looks!” The Rosh Yeshiva told him to end the shidduch. My friend asked, “Since when do we put such an emphasis on looks?” The Rosh Yeshiva told him that you must be attracted to your wife, or the marriage will never work.

I think its just that most guys arnt really attracted to big girls

Boys, girls please understand that skinny people tend to have problems or complications R”L during pregnancy (or trying to get there). (THe same is for grossly overweight people. Because everyone is different please find out from your physician what your weight should be.

Boys: see above and think long term as you are considering shidduchim. This is besides for the superficiality of the matter. The “looks” are anyway gone in a short amount of time.

Sometimes when a girl is overweight, there are people who view them as someone who doesn’t take care of themselves, so how are they going to take care of a family? Now days skinny is supposably “in” and attractive, when some years back, having a little meat on a girl was the attractive “in” look. Some guys will define a girl who is a size 5 to be “too fat” while others see a girl at a size 10 and think she is at a perfect weight. Beauty is all relative.

We do have to define the difference between a girl who is a little “heavy” and very overweight to obese. It is not about hurting her feelings, it’s about being healthy and living to see her grandchildren. Diet is NOT always the answer. Learning how to eat healthy and properly and exercise, is the right choice. Nowadays there are “diets” that cater to that way of thinking. Plus, many people are not attractive to someone who doesn’t eat, or does extreme diets. They want to go to a restaurant and know the other party is enjoying themselves and not looking at the food as if it were the enemy.

I would have to say that guys are NOT attractive to anorexic looking girls either. A slim, toned, healthy looking girl is attractive to most people. Another thing to keep in mind, is the girl’s self esteem. A girl (or guy for that matter) who put themselves down all the time or can’t take a compliment, are not too fun to be around. I knew a beautiful girl going on a date, and the whole time the guy could not stop talking about how fat and ugly he was. She told me that she liked him and was attracted to him until he started acting in such a negative way.

We have to make sure that our daughters and sons are strong individuals, who have healthy self esteems. Usually if someone is leading a healthy lifestyle, they have a higher sense of self worth then those who are overweight or underweight.

outoftowner, I feel bad that people treated that girl in such a way. No one should have to settle on ANYONE when it comes to marriage. This is the person they are going to be with till they are 120. It’s a serious decision, we are not talking about what color shirt to buy, this is their lives.

While I cannot change the boys, however, just wanted to share some thoughts on weight loss which may help. Dieting does not work, since people need to feel full and satiated. It is important to eat right, and also enjoy it. One needs to take into account how full a certain food makes you, but also how good it tastes. Calories and fat content are not the whole story. For instance, one might decide to eat better by munching on some boring cracker. One can eat and eat almost a whole box, and still not get a geshmack. However, possibly one donut may give one a geshmack and has much less calories than a whole box of crackers, even though officially the crackers are supposed to be healthier. That is because taste plays a major role.

In general, protein makes one feel very full, and this is also a big part of the enjoyment of food. Feeling full means one won’t get hungry for a long time. I just happened to look on a jar of Rokeach whitefish and pike gefilte fish, and each piece has only 50 calories. That means one can eat 4-5 pieces and feel stuffed, and yet only consume 250-300 calories. One will not even want to look at food for a long time after this. I find that eating a big breakfast, means I can skip lunch. Also, if you eat supper late then you won’t get hungry again at 10 or 11 pm, and start raiding the fridge. Try to eat as late as possible, then you will go to bed on a full stomach.

Vegetables are important lchol hadayos, so eat a lot of those. ALso rice seems to make people very full, and doesn’t have much sugar.

The big no-nos are ice-cream, milk shakes, chocolate or strawberry milk drinks, because these have tons of fat and sugar, but don’t fill you up at all. If I have delicious ice cream sundaes in front of me, I can easily eat 20 of them, since how would I know when to stop? I will still be hungry after all of them.

They say that fish is good for you, and also chicken, but red meat is not so good. Eat tuna packed in water, but don’t squeeze out all the water. This will make it taste good and moist wihtout too much mayo which has a lot of fat. On the other hand, low-fat mayo tastes horrible. Better to use a little regular mayo and enjoy, then the low-fat stuff, and still feel like you didn’t enjoy the meal. Same is true with many low-fat or lite foods and salad dressings.

You can get delicious chicken cutlets and nuggets from Of-Tov which only require a bit of microwaving for a good meal.

French Fries and potato chips have a lot of fat, and also don’t make you feel full. That is bad news. However, I am not against all carbs, and see nothing wrong with a bagel or two for breakfast. I am not totally against fat either, as a great dish can make you go a long way, whereas a more healthy dish can sometimes make you eat 10 of them without any real enjoyment from the meal.

For drinks, use 1% milk. They say to use skim, but it tastes horrible. 1% can taste as good as regular after you get used to it. However, for things like cream cheese, the low-fat stuff tastes terrible, and if you are only using a little as a spread on a bagel, might as well enjoy it and buy the regular. Same with butter, as long as you don’t overdo.For fleishigs, use 1/3 orange juice and 2/3 water. After a while you will get used to it, and it is not bad. Also cheaper, too. Diet drinks are controversial how much they help lose weight, and whether they are not safe. I think since they do not raise blood sugar, you end up eating more at the meal, and may not lose much weight in the end. Some may disagree. Regular sodas are terrible, as they are loaded with calories, and they use corn syrup as a sweetener, which I have read that the body does not recognize the calories from it as well, and you may drink a lot without feeling content

If you can get by with 2 meals a day, a big breakfast, and big supper close to bedtime, and not snack at all in between, that is the best thing.

Exercise is crucial. Not just going through the motions, but real heavy-duty continuous exercise. I prefer running. If you can do an hour straight 3 times a week, that is very good. It also curbs the appetite, and you also end up drinking more, and wanting food less. The best thing to drink is water, or the dilute OJ.

The name of the game is to eat so you feel full, not hungry all day, but no snacks or eating out of boredom or whatever. If you need an occasional candy bar, then at least get one with a wafer and nuts so it fills you up, and is not just pure chocolate. You have to know what you enjoy, because you will not be able to force yourself to diet and be hungry, or to eat very boring bland foods. You will then find yourself binging out totally out of control.

I am not a professional nutritionist, and am not the skinniest toothpick either, so I can relate to liking good food, but my weight is relatively decent. Just providing some advice that makes sense to me, and that I can mostly follow without cheating. I think that nutritionists need to better understand the tradeoffs between satiation, taste and calories per serving. It is not as simple as it seems.

People turn down shidduchim for all sorts of reasons which are beyond the control of the other person. Why should weight be any different?

What? Why wouldn’t anyone want to date a red head, that is so silly! Anyways she is going to cover her hair, in orthodox circles, she can become a blonde or brunette, who cares??? Actually,My husband finds red hair very attractive…I think the next shaitel is gonna be RED. I have red high lights though…

It really is sad that boys will not date heavy girls. I know someone very well, who is very smart, has a really great personallity, is a huge balabuste and happens to be beautiful! She is heavy (not extremely but heavy) and I know she will have a hard time.

What mariner says is definitely true. I definitely agree that no one (from either gender) should marry anyone that they do not feel attracted to. However, the point is that not every boy would inherently not feel attracted to a heavy girl. This girl that I mentioned above, I think it is very possible that many boys would not have a problem with her weight if they would not come with preconceived notions. If all boys are told keep away from fat, they will keep away from fat!

So if a boy naturally is disgusted by the extra fat on a girl’s body or face, he should definitely stay away but it should not be because of his mother but because of HIM. I truly think that whoever gets this girl as a wife is really lucky!

Mayan_Dvash,

It is not necessarily skinny people who can experience fertility problems. People with annorexia (nervosa) can have such problems. I know a girl who just got engaged and I keep hearing that the boy is tops tops tops. She is also tops tops tops. She is very smart, SLIM, well-dressed, frum, capable, talented etc. She has one problem. She is scared of food. I really believe that she has an eating disorder! I even convinced someone to call her mother to try to deal with it but i think the problem CAME from the mother. Anyway, I wish her well and hope she got over her problem or that she never had it and I just imagined it (but I don’t think so.)

P.S. The boy the second girl is engaged to was redt to the first girl. Not sure what happened to the shidduch…

Mariner, I think 5 is way too many. I like to eat 2 huge meals, and feel really full for many hours. I am no expert, though, I just know what works for me, although I could probably lose a few pounds. I was only trying to give ideas on how to eat as little as possible without feeling hungry at all.

When I was young, I was quite skinny, but I noticed once they get married, almost all men put on some weight. I don’t know whether it is the wife’s cooking skills, (or maybe the lack thereof, which drives men to the cookie jar).

I think when you are young, you naturally move around more and have more energy which burns calories. When you get into the thirties and forties, you become more sluggish. That is why it is essential to force yourself to exercise. See the running thread for more info.

Some of my kids seem to be able to eat three meals a day of cookies, and not gain an ounce. This metabolism thing is quite a mystery.

What is going on in the world? Girls should not be treated as second class or “damaged goods” because they are a little heavier. Imagine going to school and being worried that your friend is anorexic… I know someone who was worried about a good friend of hers and actually looked to see if she ate lunch! There were many girls in that class who were boardering grossly underweight. Ok, to be a size two when you are 5 feet tall is one thing (skinny but not crazily underweight) but not when the girl is 5 foot 4… There are people I know who are “watching their weight” for shidduchim and are perfectly healthy, and even on the skinny side! This is an epidemic that rages across the frum community!

One more point- if girls watch their weight for shidduchim, what will happen once they get married? If they start eating normally, then they will gain tons of weight! By starving themselves (or dieting) for a while, once they start eating a normal amount they will gain a lot of weight!!! (the metabolism slows down)

outoftowner: although i feel for all these girls who have a hard time,

however i also feel for the boys who have the same problem.

Let me give you my take on this.

When i was dating i was looking

for a slim girl. I was absolutely not attracted to overweight

or even full girls. try as i may, i never found these girls

even remotely attractive.

You can’t expect people to ignore their obvious strong dislike to something,

or else we’ll have even a bigger Shidduch crises on our hands!!!

There is a long term health issue with overweight girls, & boys.

The following is the way i see it with overweight ppl,

_______________________________________

If even when their dating & trying to impress their potential mate

1)being young & in their prime

2)knowing the hardships in Shiduchim w/ being overweight,

3)knowing the long term health risks of being overweight,

4)having time on their hands to diet, & exercise & not having to run a home,

they still can’t manage to lose the weight,

How do you expect them to ever lose the weight?

And is this person, who is not attracted to this girl,

supposed to marry her & suffer that, & potential health risks?????!!!!!

SERIOUSLY! I hope your spouse is overweight, cuz if not what

even gives you the right to suggest this approach

if you yourself wouldn’t do it?

Sorry for the tone, but what you expect is ridiculous!

i apologize if i offended any overweight people,

with my post, but this is the reality.

I don’t mean to go off topic, but people mentioned what amounts and how many times to eat that is considered “healthy”

Just know that breakfast SHOULD be your biggest meal of the day, and dinner should NOT be the biggest meal. Breakfast with a good combination of protein and fiber is the healthiest way to go, your breakfast is what jump starts your day. Studies have shown that most people who eat a good breakfast have less weight problems then people who skip breakfast. A lot of that has to do with the fact that if you starve yourself during the day, you will binge all night, and consume exuberant amount of calories. There is no reason to have a huge dinner (unless you have a race or something very physical the next day -there’s more to that, but doesn’t apply to this thread), you don’t need that many calories at night when you are sleeping. Just make sure you don’t let yourself go hungry (not boredom hunger, the REAL kind), when you deprive yourself of nutrients, your blood sugar can drop, and make you feel sluggish, tired, and sick.

p.s. I am not a member of a gym, but I still workout, you don’t need all that “special” equipment to keep in shape. just some good cross training/running shoes, and your own body weight to do exercises – (running, speed walking, several types of crunches, push ups, chin ups, pilates, etc.)

All these guys who are turning down shidduchim with girls who are larger than a size 2/4, often end up out of shape and a little chubby themselves. Plus they might find their hair thinning or go bald altogether. Are they such pictures of perfection themselves that they should be having such an attitude about women’s weight? People who love each other and want to truly build a bayis ne’eman b’Yisroel, should look beyond externals. yes, there definitely needs to be an attraction, but perhaps it is time for us as a people to re-define what “the rules” dictate as being attractive and teach our kids to be less superficial and look for other more substantive qualities that attract them to someone.

popa_bar_abba,

A young lady should not make it a priority to be THIN. She should make it a priority to eat well and exercise and be besimcha with herself because she feels SHE is worth it!!! I see plenty of skinny girls who are not finding their shidduch so easily either. Some men like a more full figured girl, they don’t want to give a hug to a bag of bones. Uch. Thank G-d my husband finds skinny women very unattractive.

popa_bar_abba: the girls do not need to be “thin” per se. just “not fat”. there is a grave difference between the two. skinny is a size 0-4 (maybe 6) but up to a 10-12 is still not fat. of course it all depends on the build of the girl. but you are right when you say us guys will not change. and women telling guys that they are shallow is stupid, and doesnt help. it just hinders progress of a solution.

just as many, if not more, skinny girls are unmarried. all the older girls i tend to see unmarried, from 25 on up, are usually skinny or close to it. some are just unlucky if such a thing exists. others are stupid, and way too picky until it was too late.

Nobody is born extremely obese,

they acheive that by overeating & not exercising daily.

People who are overweight, just get over it & please go

on a SERIOUS diet.

If not for shidduchim then for Hashem Yisborach

who says in the Torah “Ushmarted Me’od L’nafshoseichem”.

Re poppa bar etc.: No, our first priority has to be, what do our children need to build a bayis neeman. What do our children need to do to grow into the people who will build a bayis neeman. Understanding diet, nutrition and health may fall under the rubric. Concentrating on getting thin – THIN?!?!, not even slim??? – does not.

thank you mariner for understanding my point. btw i did not mean skinny as oppossed to slim (which one is skinnier?)

Muchcommonsense, while that is a sad story, and certainly could happen, one side point is that it has been my experience, and that of others, that very often when women rave about a particular girl’s looks, guys will unanimously think she is unattractive. I am not disagreeing with you that one must see the other qualities in a spouse, and looks alone are not the make or break of a marriage (usually kindness is), I am just pointing out that often women have no clue how guys perceive looks. It sometimes works both ways, a girls can be considered great-looking to guys, but think she is too fat, and go on a dangerous diet which turns into an eating disorder that makes her look emaciated, sickly and terrible, thinking that is what guys are looking for.

Women should never offer opinions on women’s looks, neither about themselves or others, as they are usually very poor judges. I believe that this is a major cause of eating disorders.

everyone should know that after you give everyone mussar about not thinking about weight when dating, people are still going to take it into consideration when making the shidduch and unfortunately these girls will just have to weight a little longer

joseph: muchcommonsense’s comments was beautifully said? you have not a clue as to how reality works. many many many a marriage has been lost to one spouse losing physical interest in the other. speak to any frum family/divorce attorney. looks is actually one of the only things halachically permitted to be on a “list”. being heavy is actually preferable to some people. to say that a person should not be honest to what attracts him is useless. i do agree though at a point the guy is being stupid. but again, it is his prerogative. you may think putting looks on the top 5 is foolish, i think putting yichus is, and the other guy thinks putting family monetary value is, while a fourth thinks whether the guy has a beard or will learn in kollel for x many years is foolish. all are foolish, and all are legitimate. the criteria is that it should be an honest decision, and not one pushed on by parents!

“Nobody is born extremely obese,

they acheive that by overeating & not exercising daily.

People who are overweight, just get over it & please go

on a SERIOUS diet.”

there is clearly a quite powerful genetic component to obesity.

it existed in olden times of poverty as well.

Reb Eliezer ben Shimon was known to be massively obese.

it was said (although probably with some exaggeration), when he and another Godol (forgot his name) would stand facing each other a wagon could pass under the arch formed by their bellies. do you think they got that way because of eating desires and overeating?

Zevi8: It is a bit hard to take you seriously after reading your posts on the PETA discussion where you make up alternative explanations of G-D’s allowing us to eat meat in order to justify your own crooked, non-torah, “morals”. Is the explanation of the sifsei chachamim not good enough? Are the practices of every gadol since Noah not good enough, that you declare yourself holier and eschew the “cruel, exploitative practice of eating meat.” (like say, the korban pesach) So excuse us if we don’t think you are right about this either. Or if we think you are an anti-torah, anti-chazal, anti-gedolim, cynic.

torahls1: amen brother! but a question, if the smokers marry the fat girls, who marries the 22 divorcee with and triplets who has no legs?