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In a frum BY school system I felt very threatened by the way they dealt with certain things, especially shidduchim.
I remember clearly- throughtout my school years ( even towards the end years of ELEMNTARY SCHOOL) how the teachers would say (when they got fed up with the class/ or of just not thinking too much into it)…”you know, we get calls from shadchanim when are students get out of school….and sometimes…well, we dont always have (nice)things to say about them…tsk tsk…” they would say such comments (sometimes more directly harsher) (especially HS and Seminary) in a seemingly notifying way but came as a threat to MOST of the girls who- all they want is to get married one day…and i felt very uneasy when teachers would do it.
I have to say, I wasnt a bad kid or anything, but as a child/ teen so vulnerable and not with too much knowledge, I was afraid…that if I dont behave perfectly etc- then I wouldnt ch’s find a shidduch.
What do you think of this?
Are these teachers university trained, state certified teachers or seminary-only graduates? I would find it difficult to believe that a board certified teacher (who has studied child psychology in great depth) would make threats about future marriages to children in elementary school. Teachers like this should not be in a classroom molding the minds of the future. University trained teachers spend time in actual classrooms almost from the start of their studies, unlike many years ago when they didn’t go into classrooms until near the end of their last year. These old practices were changed because in many cases, although they could produce excellent marks on exams, they simply could not teach or could not relate to children.
This happened in my high school as well.
They are bluffing. Think about it: If they say you were a bowl of trouble, that’s admitting that school xyz houses trouble girls So, even if you were Lizzie Borden, they would cover for you.
Besides, any parent worth becoming your in-laws knows to take whatever the school says with a huge tablespoon of salt. If you made it thru the term without getting bounced, you were as good as the next 50 girls.
What matters (to some degree) is what your neighbors and family friends will say. What really matters is how you present yourself in the arena. If you go to work / shul / simchas / the park looking like a bas yisroel, thats the label you earn.
Too bad kids have no spine.
I would say, “you better stop threatening, or I’ll accuse you of molesting me.”
even if you were Lizzie Borden
Rebbetzin Borden will be starting a school for ill-behaved girls herself next year and it will be called Bnos Makkos.
Too bad kids have no spine.
I would say, “you better stop threatening, or I’ll accuse you of molesting me.”
–p
“shudders” This is what will soon happen with all the reports of molestation, and we will soon have the frum version of the McMartin case if we haven’t had it already.
I dont think everyone should be so paranoid…GOSH!!!!! whatever shidduch is bashert 4 u HaShem will work out….dont worry too much!!!
minyangal, I am so sorry to say this to you but the teachers in these schools are NOT educated and licensed. They did NOT go through the training you assume they did or should have. At best, they went to seminary. This is the biggest problem in our Yeshiva System. WE pay a fortune for many (I am not saying all because there are many good teachers) ill equipped and untrained teachers who are supposed to be the best “role models” for our kids while our counterparts in public school get a free education by trained, qualified, educated and licensed teachers.
This world is CORRUPT! The entire society (frum society) is obsessed with shidduchim. I live my life for it and its insane. In school we get the impression that we need to be skinny and pretty and smart, go to BJJ, etc. ITS INSANE! This world is SHALLOW!!!!!
that’s sad ;(
aries, good point. Not everyone can be a teacher. I’ve had some who would fit perfectly in the “how not to do it” category.
As for the OP, like mischiefmaker said, thats the way our world is set up, unfortunately. How many special-needs children don’t get the help they need because of shidduchim…?
Sarah Schenirer AH did not go to any professional school. Neither did Rebbetzin Kaplan AH.
The problem is that some teachers, male and female, are in chinuch as employment of last resort. They lack dedication because they fell into chinuch rather than wanting to go into it, or they burn out because of low, late salaries and discipline problems (and parents telling their kids that their rebbeim and teachers are losers who could not find real jobs.)
I think the frum world needs a teaching corps, where the community pays schar limud for yeshiva or advanced seminary as well as perhaps professional training in exchange for a 5-10 year commitment to teaching.
THe problem is also that most of the kodesh teachers and some chol aren’t certified at all! they are young woman who are busy with family and need some money. They don’t know what they’re doing. Or its old folgies who don’t know how to relate to the younger generation. The whole school system is down the drains. Yeah S.S. was great what she did but we aren’t following in the RIGHT footsteps. There are many things we have changed and we’re not on her level anymore so its rly sad where our schools have gone today. Just my vent on schools (they’re all insane IMHO LOL)
I didn’t just get threats, my elementary school teacher was called for information, (she was a friend of the family’s) and she bad-mouthed me.. but like someone said if it’s bashert, nothing can stop a shidduch, the things my in-laws heard, and then still continued on with the shidduch! To be fair, there was a drop of truth in what she said, which she exagerated 10x over, but people CAN change in a decade!!!! (I’ll never forget her face when she met me married, she looked like she wanted to bury herself!!)
My relative was smart enought to judge her husband by what he currently was and not that he was asked to leave every school he attended. He was what was called a troubled kid by teachers. The truth was that he was bored in school and needed a more stimulating enviroment and inspiration.
Today he learns all day in a well known Kollel and teaches Germora to a class at night.
minyan gal, aries: There are NUMEROUS unlicensed teachers who could teach a thing or two about dealing with children to the licensed ones.
After a relative of mine got married she said she wants to personally thank all those who gave bad information and stopped many shidduchim because she got herself a great guy at the end of the day.
cleverjewishpun
It’s one thing to be honest and truthful but it’s another to say outright lies for no good reason. Actually one teacher wanted the boy in question for her own daughter and purposely said what she knew the boy’s mother didn’t want to hear. There was no truth to it whatsoever. In the end that boy married the teacher’s daughter and my cousin couldn’t have been happier.
This mod must be a little too sensitive about this issue since all I suggested was that this situation is getting to the point where people are going to start highering their own investigators to get the truth on people.
Who knows, it’s a whole new market to explore and I’m sure some people could use the work
Higher-the opposite of lower.Hire-to pay someone to do work for you. 🙂
@aimhabonim; Thank you for correcting the mis-spell but my point remains valid…gossiping and spreading misinformation, while fun is not getting you the truth about prospective shiduchim.
My new business venture called “the not for you squad” will gather intellegence about a prospective matche like parents financial statements,internet browsing history, school transcripts, sworn statements by Rabanim,friends,dorm counslers all extracted under the influence of sodium pentothal (truth serum) along with a deep backround check that involves going back 4 generations to see if someone attended a questionable camp or event at any point.
Our motto..”Remember, the other side is hiding something, let us find it”
RedNails19: Horrible. I would talk to parents & principal. This is no worse than blackmail, and the school should know what is going on (and probably fire the teacher).
its terribly wrong
the teacher certainly should be corrected
fired? maybe
sometimes a teacher can be so frustrated, feeling she has no way whatsoever to control her class, that she acts out of desperation, and probably doesnt realize just then how wrong it is.
could be this itself is a sign of her incompetence and she should lose her job, but im not so sure
always this has to be done by someone who is sensitive to both the wronged and the wronging parties.
i know i have done some very foolish and harmful things and eventually came to see just how wrong i was but somehow at the time i just didnt see it.
of course the Binos Yisroel must be protected at all costs from harm.
hows that for wishy-washy?
Just for the record, I wasn’t talking to myself. It seems that cleverjewishpun’s post was removed.
Wow! It’s unbelievable what harm/damage some of our teachers can and sometimes do. In my experience, when beginning the parsha of shidduchim with my sons, when i called the principal, a female and presented two names for her, the feedback was about scholastics and not middos. The girl with the higher marks was of higher caliber in her eyes. Being upset i called the main principal, a known Rav and mechanech and told him how upset i was and what a miracle that i ever got married…to which he replied “look how far you got and look at some of those girls with the high marks” and that he would definitely look into the matter…which i hope he did. Some of the so called labeled girls end up being top teachers because of their sensitivity to those who don’t fit into the normal mold and some do great shidduchim because someone realizes the common sense they have, which is more important in life than getting 100% or all Alefs and A’a…so don’t worry, Hashem watches over us.
Mr. 80:
sometimes a teacher can be so frustrated, feeling she has no way whatsoever to control her class, that she acts out of desperation, and probably doesnt realize just then how wrong it is.
Sounds like the teacher “lost it”. If the teacher actually hit a girl, she would be fired. This is just verbal instead of physical abuse.
THe problem is also that most of the kodesh teachers and some chol aren’t certified at all! they are young woman who are busy with family and need some money.
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Certification means nothing when there is dedication but you are right about the money issue. Some really would just as soon do office work if they could find it with flexible enough hours. And a few of the best ones I know of do it because they believe it is what Hashem wants them to do. They have family money and don’t need to get paid.
“Certification means nothing when there is dedication”
While I agree dedication is extremely important in the teaching profession, the ability to be able to spot a dyslexic child in the 1st grade is just as important, if not more so. In the city that I live in, there is a small very orthodox school and another very large K-12 that the rest of the community uses. At both schools, all of the teachers, whether teaching secular or Judaic studies, are certified University graduate teachers. If they weren’t the government school inspectors would shut the places down. It is a pity that so many parents are paying far more than they can really afford to send their children to schools where they are getting, at best, a second class education. Yes, there is something to say about ruach and frumkeit, but, this is the next generation of critical thinkers that are being educated. These are the future Rabbonim. How many of them will be qualified to even pay their monthly bills or help their children with trigonometry? This is a crisis.
I see two sides to this:
I was always a well-behaved student, and I watched my classmates make my teachers’ lives a living hell. They would leave school with headaches, tell us that their public school students behaved better than we did. If these girls were being redt Shidduchim a year out of high school, these teachers have a right to tell people what chutzpah these girls possessed. They had no sympathy for the teacher, no respect, and couldn’t behave like 12th graders.
If it were a few years later, I’d give them the courtesy of time, that these girls likely matured and regretted their behavior.
If you don’t want teachers to have anything bad to say about you, don’t give them anything bad to say about you.
FYI, the obnoxious troublemakers got married a few years before I did – proves that, really, when Hashem thinks it’s your time, it’s your time.
rednails – that is sick, sick, sick.
I remember one teacher threatened one of my classmates with that. She was actually the first or second to get married-maybe less than 2 months after we came back from seminary. I heard many other threats, or teachers did stupid things, but I know looking back, they thought that they were doing teh right things. Or they lost it, when they shouldn’t have. Rather than bashing our teachers (many work very hard, take work seriously, and are not in this for the money), we should work on instituting better training for our teachers. I’m okay after my experiences, but some of my classmates aren’t. I don’t like blaming, but I wonder if that is why some of them no longer associate with ‘very frum’ crowds
I second popa, HS kids have no spine.
I would say “You don’t want to threaten me, my boyfriend is a marine.”
“You don’t want to threaten me, my boyfriend is a marine.”
Perfect response in a Bais Yaakov 🙂
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