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Dear Readers,
Well, what are we supposed to do??? We all are busy right? We all have lives (at least most of us have some sort of life) right? So what is the answer?
Be in touch! Tizku Lemitzvos!
Shadchan Wanna Be But Have no Time or money for it!
There are quite a few “professional shadchanim” out there that will be more than happy to take your money for a shidduch.
In fact, I’d be quite weary of them.
Totaly off this issue yet again it does have to do with shidduchim
You know how everyone says that there is a MAJOR shidduch issue, and the lack of boys there are, well guess what i came up with some new shocking news for everyone:
THERE ARE NO LACK OF BOYS! you read correctely there are no lack of boys, every neshama was born not with one but with TWO zevugim for them!
do you think Hashem would bring down a neshama that doesnt have a zivug?
so now i guess we just have to do our hishtadlus and stop being so picky and start gettting some dates for these girls and boys!
Back to the original topic: lgbg, would you like to devote your time to getting those dates for all those boys and girls? I believe that is exactly what Joe Schmo is pointing out.
lgbg, I’m with you except for one item. You can do your hishtadlus if you want(it’ll make you less nervous, thinking that you’re doing something), but it’s not necessary. The shidduch can happen in an instant, and when you least expect it.
jphone
i could honestly say that i really try to set people up but its not easy. the boys and their mothers are so picky! how can you deal with people who want only miss. perfect because guys hate to be so blunt miss perfect does not exist!
cher.
i really do try to do my hishtadlus but again its really not so easy!
jphone
i could honestly say that i really try to set people up but its not easy. the boys and their mothers are so picky! how can you deal with people who want only miss. perfect because guys hate to be so blunt miss perfect does not exist!
cher.
i really do try to do my hishtadlus but again its really not so easy!
These topics are getting more ridiculous by the minute!
Can someone please tell me the point of this pathetic blog?
Being a SHADCHAN IS a career for heaven’s sakes and there are plenty out there!!!
When something is bashert its gona happen regardless of who the shadchan is,,,,,
Goodness me, some people must really be craving attention to ‘dream up’ such nonsensical issues,
Mr. Schmo, Get a life!!!
How about come to grips with the reality that the shadchan system does not work. There are many reasons why it doesn’t work, or doesn’t work for many people. Why does the Orthodox community perpetually insist on “fitting a circle into a square?” Why can’t there be options in this regard? I once heard of a beuatiful custom that prevailed in Bruers for many years. During the learning on Hoashana Rabbah, single girls would come to the schul and serve a snack during the session. The snack was merely a pretext for the single men to see who was available and perhaps meet their mate. Many a happy Yekkeshe couple met over those cups of coffee. Rather than insist on all the highly ritualized formality, why not return to basics, boy sees girl, boy likes what he sees and goes after girl in socially acceptable ways, boy meets girl, boy and girl like eachother and maybe get married. The problem with the shidduch system is that the first step, boy sees girl, is not there. For many people that’s a problem.
Joe Schmo, your analogy doesn’t SHTIM. You cannot compare finding a shidduch for ones child to fixing a broken pipe. Based on what I heard in shiurim by Rav Aryeh Leib Katz, I would propose that every person be a dedicated shadchan for just a few people. I’m sure people can find a little time to dedicate toward one or two young men and or young women in finding their mates.
Aishes Chayil,
Very well said! Some people have enough time to dream up the most ridiculous posts!
Aishes Chayil, YOUR shockingly nasty post is the pathetic one. By your screen name, it appears you are married, so thank Hashem for that and try to be a bit more sympathetic and sensitive to that who have not yet found their spouse, regardless whether you think they are doing it to themselves or not—they are STILL to be pitied!
I, for one, thought he made a very good point. It is a well known fact that people just don’t have time and matchmaking is a thankless, often frustrating job. If people were paid for their time, like a lawyer, etc, there would be many more people in the field. Also, we can train them and have mentors, in case the inexperienced shadchan runs into difficulty.
“When something is bashert it’s gona happen regardless of who the shadchan is,,,,,” That line is so childish, that it makes me wonder where you come from. Have you ever heard of the concept called “hishtadlus”?? If meeting your bashert will happen anyway because its bashert, why bother dating alltogether? Did you meet your husband in the street or did a shadchan take time to set you up? If everything is bashert, why are the rabbonim and askonim getting involved in various different shadchan networks, each having their on original approach?
Back to the oP’s point, we see from what the star-k did in Baltimore, which I understand was largely successful, that people need incentives.
Thank you to Joe shmoe for your sensitivity in raising this subject and for your thinking along the lines of solutions rather than denial.
To those who counter that this is not a novel idea, since there are already “proffesional shadchanim”, consider this: If you compare the ratio of young people out there looking for their shidduchim to the amount of full-time shadchanim, you would find that there is a serious shortage of full-time shadchanim. If you want to buy a house, you contact a real estate broker, who takes your needs seriously and shows you what’s available. So why should you not be able to contact a shadchan who has a full database of availabilities, according to your needs, to set you up? because there sre not enough of such people!
I, myself spend quite a bit of time on a regular basis working on shidduchim, as a side thing. In my experience over the last few years, I feel the parents ARE doing their hishtadlus. The young people for the most part are too. It is the community that has to step in and help out, by creating a more workable situation.
As I see it, the problem of older singles can be adrressed from many angles, and one can try to lay the blame on the singles, their parents, expectations, the shadchan or the Rabbonim. What I think is needed is a WHOLE approach. Let me give you an analogy.
You have a man who is sick. He goes to the doctor and complains that his stomache hurts. The doctor gives him pain killers. He goes back to the doctor because his head hurts. Then his eyes hurt, and then he feels weak. An astute doctor will look at all the symptoms together and be able to diagnose a condition, and treat the condition, which is the root of all the symptoms.
Yes, in shidduchim, sometimes the parents, sometimes the girls and sometimes the boys are a problem. money, yichus, frumkeit level, all play a role in the larger picture.
What I think is needed is EDUCATION. Before beginning the process of dating, most young people are clueless, having garnered their ideas of marriage from sources that have no basis in reality. Even if they have friends in shidduchim, one really has no clue until they actually live with their spouse. Any married person will attest to that.
So how can we expect young people to know what they want? How can we send a young girl or boy out on his first date without having any clue what is expected of him/her? Would we hire any worker without experince? How can we expect parents to know what they’re doing in the confusing world of trying to get information? They are usually only trying to protect their kid! Whenever I give a name over to a parent to research, my heart goes out to them for the task that lies ahead of them. And often after all their checking, it all comes to nothing.
Of course, for the most part, people get married. young people fare okay even without education, and so do the parents. But the amount of agmas nefesh that is created in the current system can probably be alleviated with a community wide attempt at education: For parents, singles AND Shadchanim.
Think Big,
My insensitivity is not at all CV to thsoe singles who need shidduchim.
Its just that people very often post without thinking!
Yes, we must do our hishtadlus but the zivug comes WHEN its bashert and not a second before!
Professional Shadchonim are plenty and they get paid VERY handsomely, in some instances where the shidduch doesnt even go through. Shadchonis is the MOST DESERVED REWARD and YES it is very very appreciated. Many non professional make shiduchim as well because its abig mitzvah, There is no need to labe l THEMprofessionals because the are . pLease dont underestimate the hakoras Hatov people have to them.
Think BIG:
The parents who bring up their child should have drilled into them hadracha and together with their life experiance they should have a good idea by the time they are ready to go out (which may be later than they think!). If they don’t know what they want, how can they get married!
Professional Shadchanim who don’t only look at wealthy families so that they can collect is a great idea.
To Aishes Chayil: Are you a “Troll”? (for others, look it up in regards to forums)
Aishes chayil: I found your post insensitive, simply because singles need all the help they can get, and anyone who sheds light on the situation, or even tries to come up with solutions (however silly you may think them)is appreciated by singles. Anyone like that appears to be on the “side” of the singles. Anybody who mocks those efforts, would feel hurt, as if the entire struggle of that parsha is mocked. Try, if you can, to read your letter and feel as an older single would. I think you would see my point. Frankly, I don’t agree that the op’s post was any less thoughtful than yours was. On the contrary, i felt he/she made good sense.
“Yes, we must do our hishtadlus but the zivug comes WHEN its bashert and not a second before!” That goes without saying. But it is hishtadlus from down here that will make it happen. Think of it this way. The singles and families must make reasonable hishtadlus, while at the same time knowing that these are just the motions, and the bashert will come at the right time. What the OP did was suggest methods for hishtadlus. It is not his/her job to say “I dont need to do anything or think about singles, because hashem will send them their shidduch at the right time anyway.”
About your assertion that there are plenty of Shadchanim, I beg to differ, very strongly. I am referring to the RATIO that is needed for the amount of singles ka”h out there. Go check the Jewish yellow pages and compare how many realtors there are, as compared to shadchanim. And many many more people need the services of shadchanim than realtors. Non-proffessional shadchanim are by definition, part time, or whenever there’s free time. Which brings us back full circle. See the rest of my post above..
To Gavra at work:
I agree with your assertion that parents should have taught their children these life fundamentals while they were at home–100%. IN AN IDEAL SITUATION, that is.
Unfortunately, we are not dealing with an ideal situation here at all. Many homes do not model proper values, and in others, the outside influence is just too strong. The result is that we have many confused singles out there, and even many newly-marrieds with the wrong ideas in their heads. Even if the young person in question witnessed a fabulous marriage at home, that doesn’t mean they would know how to translate that into actually being that type of spouse. What they didn’t see is the struggle and compromise it often took for their parents to aquire the state of harmony they did.
Years ago it was the mother’s job to teach her daughters halacha and hashkafa straight from the home. Today our girls are taught in school. There is no reason why “marriage education” should not be offered to those young men and women in the parsha. What I am suggesting is courses on how to figure out your priorities, how to determine which values are really important, the basics of husband-wife relationship, the concept of vatranus and effective communication, what is “normal” and to be expected, etc. This is what its really all about!
Often-times perfectly wonderful young people get married and suffer because they just keep misunderstanding each other. By the time they may go for counseling, a mountain of resentment may have built up. If a divorce follows, it leaves two hurt people that could possibly have been spared the trauma, with just a bit of education, before or after marriage.
My idea is that course be offered post-seminary for girls, and post-bais medrash for boys (or whenever they enter the parsha), and that there should be (pref.) required meetings on a regular basis with a proffesional after the couple is married to help them smooth over the difficulties that come up in the first year of marriage.
From what I have read, it is clear that couples that find themselves in troubled marriages can usually point to the first year when these problems first cropped up. But new couples would rather not seek help, as that would be admitting failure, to some degree. If marriage education can become the norm, there would be no need for shame, and each couple could receive the guidance they need.
That’s my (radical) idea in any case. But I have no idea how to go about implementing it.
Think BIG:
From my “side of the aisle”, I had a Moshgiach who not only helped every bochur with Shalom Bayis before marriage, but also was avalible (and We (myself and my wife)) went to him after marriage with any major issues that “cropped up” (such as how to deal with parents/in-laws, learning vs. shana rishona, etc.). Part of the issue is that the other side may have no-one with whom to talk these issues through.
The main issue (I think) is the lack of information on how much EFFORT it takes to make a marriage work! Girls are taught that marrying a Kollel guy is the end-all, and not to worry about the effort that is needed and may be unavalible when the wife is both working and taking care of children, and the husband doesn’t help either because he is busy learning and the wife is too embarrassed to tell him she needs help, or he doesn’t want to / know how / immaturity which she overlooked because he was a good learner AND THAT’S ALL SHE LOOKED FOR!
Bochurim these days have their mothers and cleaning people at the dorm pick up after them, throw out their garbage, do their laundry, cook, etc. and you wonder why THEY ARE NOT PREPARED for marriage!
If the Sems taught how hard it is to be married (B”H), let alone be a Kollel wife, and the boys were taught their responsibilities at home, Klal Yisroel would be much better off.
I would like to know if there is a similar support system on the other side of the fence, specifically post-seminary.
My wife has been involved over the past 20 years in shidduchim ( not professionally ) and the biggest single frustration she faces is the refusal on the part of either the man or woman to even meet each other once, especially after having gone thru an extensive vetting process. She’s even been asked what the woman’s siblings do for a living. Thru our shul, she has organized Single Shabbatons for older singles that have produced a number of marraiges over the years. According to our Rav, she was rewarded for all her efforts in the best way possible. Our daughter met her bashert on her very first shidduch date.
a shadchan is simply a shliach
though its definitely not simple to be that shliach
i mean i have tried and i was very fast discouraged
gavra at work— the “dating problem” site seems to have disappeared. I thank yo ufor the gemoro in Bab basrs and the “memreh ‘ of Rav Jochanan. I will try to discuss it a later date.
The extensive vetting process is itself the cause of many a shidduch to not come to fruition. By the time the Mamas have both checked each others’ families out,so much time may have elapsed that neither party is interested in going forward. It would be really nice if people would just let a boy and a girl meet each other, allow the boy to (horrors!) actually call the girl HIMSELF without the shadchan butting in, and have the girl speak for herself. If the kids are old enough to date, they ought to be mature enough to arrange said date without any intervention past the point of the two young people being suggested to each other. If a boy does not know how to ask a girl out, he is not old enough to be thinking about getting married. If a girl cannot turn down a second or third date, or conversely ACCEPT a second date by having the fellow ask her out directly, then she is way too sheltered. This is not the 18th century. We are not helping our kids by making them think that this type of shidduch dating is the right way. It only slows down their personal growth and maturity. Life is full of unpleasant and uncomfortable situations that must be handled with good judgment. If we can’t allow our kids to exercise that judgment in dating, what makes us think they will be better equipped to do so a few short months from that time?
re oomis: The shadchan’s presence, at least the first few times they go out, is a bracha. It helps the kids maintain their dignity and confidence. Prolonged phone conversations, especially before they meet, can be detrimental. Remember, these are young people who do not have a lot of contact with the opposite sex outside family and maybe close family friends. Even after the first few dates, it’s good for both kids to reserve the right to say, let’s go through the shadchan. Not to get out of saying no, but to say, I need more time to think and I can’t ask you out/say yes right away.
You may feel our kids are too sheltered, and it is your right to raise your children otherwise if you’ve made informed decisions to do so. But B”H my personal experience has been that the sheltering we’ve experienced, and done ourselves, so far works to raise bnei and bnos Yisrael who can funtion in the world. Maybe we’ve given them enough exposure to the world, if not the opposite sexes, to segue into the new stages of interaction when they come up.
About the vetting: yeah, it can get absurd. And there are things people don’t always find out. But before I would let kids meet I would want clear data – where the boy/girl went to school, age, etc. And I would, depending on the data, want to know why the chinuch decisions, changes at whatever stage, etc. were made, if the young man/girl is responsible, personable, and a mentsch. And you need references for that – the shadchan doesn’t have all the info.
I think that the framework we have, if used properly, is really, really good.
to tzippy,
by your standards , the following would be eliminated as a possible shidduch:
1. Avrohom – a baal tshuva who worked in the family idol business
2. Yitzchok – His half brother was Yishmael
3. Yaakov- Just one look at his twin Esav would have eliminated him
4. Moshe Rabeinu- Not only didn’t he sit and learn, he grew up in the
ultimate place of moral corruption, Pharoah’s palace ( and had an
Egyptian name, Moshe )
5. Rivka, Rachel and Leah – sister and daughters of an out and out
rasha.
Once a person is an adult, and his/her personality and character have been formed, judge them as themselves, not a reflection of their relatives.
re lesschumras:
About Yitzchok, Yaakov, and the Imahos: you may notice I didn’t mention anything about the family, so I wouldn’t necessarily have eliminated them. (I will say, from my experience so far, that a really nice family is not a chisaron.)
And Avraham and Moshe Rabeinu – I would have asked why they (or their parents) made the decisions they did, true. And presumably the shadchan would have told me that they came a long way from where they started out. I for one would have been impressed and intrigued enough to pursue it. But anyway, a lot of people would have dropped A”A off their lists because he was a working boy; I wouldn’t, depending on the daughter in question.
tzippi your abslutley wright!!
When something needs to be done I usually don’t hire someone else to do it for me.
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