Home › Forums › Shidduchim › Shidduch for ex-Modox bochur
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June 9, 2017 11:42 am at 11:42 am #1292469Workingbochur95Participant
This is my story:
I am a 22 year old bochur from NY. I grew up in a Modern Orthodox home, but I was mekabel a much more Yeshivish hashkafa after four years of sterile gashmius in a co-ed MO high school.
Does that forfeit my ability to find a shiduch?June 9, 2017 12:08 pm at 12:08 pm #1292472JosephParticipantAbsolutely not. Everyone can do a teshuva shleima and you start your slate as a complete tzaddik. You are entitled to the best shidduch with a true bas talmid chochom.
June 9, 2017 12:22 pm at 12:22 pm #1292478Ex-CTLawyerParticipantYou do not forfeit your ability to find a shidduch because you came from a MO background and have moved to the right. There may well be a girl with a similar background who would love a husband with the ability to relate to her family and be comfortable relating to yours.
Personally, I would have been happier with a son-in-law with your background than someone who grew up in an isolated, insular rebbe led community.
June 10, 2017 11:37 pm at 11:37 pm #1292602LightbriteParticipantJoseph, why would someone need to do teshuvah for growing up MO?
June 11, 2017 12:01 am at 12:01 am #1292645JosephParticipantLB, it’s a very vague term that can mean anything to anybody. Many effectively non-frum people call themselves that. And the fact the OP stated he attended a sterile gashmius co-ed high school, which itself is assur, lends credibility to that understanding.
June 11, 2017 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #1293102popa_bar_abbaParticipantWhat is sterile gashmiyus?
June 11, 2017 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #1293122LightbriteParticipantIs it the sterile gashmiyus that’s assur or the co-ed?
June 11, 2017 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #1293136JosephParticipantCo-ed high school is assur; sterile/pure gashmiyus is hedonism.
June 11, 2017 11:10 pm at 11:10 pm #1293145LightbriteParticipantJoseph, thanks! So co-ed high school is assur assur? 100% -no machlokes? What about elementary and middle school?
Rereading the OP, and he did a great job at explaining without going into detail!
June 12, 2017 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1293592GadolhadorahParticipantI’ve heard so many definitions of “MO’ that its not clear the term has any objective meaning, any more so than terms such as “Yeshivish” etc. If you look at some of the registration forms used by shidduch services, some have as many as 8-10 categories in which you place yourself, and that’s only for frum shaddchanus.
June 12, 2017 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1293617FuturePOTUSParticipantJoseph, I happen to know that’s not correct at all. YHS in Boca Raton was created with permission from Gedolai HaDor, and there are many other examples. Blanket statements like that in Judaism are often wrong, and give people an improper impression of what we are about.
June 12, 2017 2:51 pm at 2:51 pm #1293994JosephParticipantFuture, *specifically which* gedolei hador ever permitted co-ed high schools?
June 12, 2017 4:42 pm at 4:42 pm #1294292GadolhadorahParticipantThis one…in smaller communities where they cannot support the substantial costs of maintaining two separate buildings for separate “boys” and “girls” campuses, they have a single school building but have taken great care in consultation with rabbonim to separate instruction and avoid social mingling.
June 12, 2017 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1294603JosephParticipantWhich rabbonim, specifically?
June 12, 2017 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1294683bmyerParticipant“YHS in Boca Raton was created with permission from Gedolai HaDor,”
FP: I checked into it and it seems that YHS might have been “created” with permission but it was al tnai that they would separate within 5-10 years (when they got bigger…). They are bigger, it’s more than 10 years, and they haven’t separated..which means it was never supposed to be open in the first place…
June 12, 2017 9:13 pm at 9:13 pm #1294690LightbriteParticipantJoseph, at this point, isn’t is assur for the poster to say which rabbonim, seeing that you’re calling into question their rulings – and that may expose them to lashon hara?
June 12, 2017 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1294719GadolhadorahParticipantNot worth debating Joseph…there is whole world outside of his narrow NYC/Monsey/Lakewood focus where frum yidden of varying hashkafah have come together to provide torah-based chinuch for their kids. They have done so in consultation with rabbonim they rely upon. They could care less, whether some CR mashgiach ruchani approves of their decisions with respect to what is “assur”.
June 12, 2017 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1294722JosephParticipantLB, I’m confident those claiming gedolei rabbonim will be stumped to name any.
June 12, 2017 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #1294720FuturePOTUSParticipantJoseph, I’m trying to understand if you have extreme, overzealous views or are merely trolling.
bmyer, it could be that’s true, but even from the first ten years the point stands.
June 12, 2017 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #1294736JosephParticipantLB, as you now see, I was correct.
June 13, 2017 10:46 am at 10:46 am #1294906kollel_wifeParticipantTo the OP – you certainly should be able to find a shidduch – sometimes someone with a similar background will have more in common with you, but sometimes a regular yeshivish girl as well. Where are you located? Have you met with shadchonim?
June 13, 2017 1:36 pm at 1:36 pm #1295086bmyerParticipant“but even from the first ten years the point stands”
FP: No it doesn’t the way a tnai works is that if you don’t keep it you were not allowed from the beginning…June 13, 2017 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #1295299K-cupParticipantRav ovadiah Yosef says co-ed yeshivah high school is better than public school, for communities that can only support one school. There are number sh’ut seforim that discuss it.
June 14, 2017 1:23 am at 1:23 am #1296067β’οΈ Rand0m3x π²ParticipantJoseph, Iβm trying to understand if you have extreme, overzealous views or are merely trolling.
I suggest you give up.
June 14, 2017 1:30 am at 1:30 am #1296071β DaasYochid βParticipantRav ovadiah Yosef says co-ed yeshivah high school is better than public school, for communities that can only support one school. There are number shβut seforim that discuss it.
Does he say you’re allowed to open one?
June 14, 2017 1:50 am at 1:50 am #1296073β DaasYochid βParticipantOr attend one?
June 14, 2017 6:16 am at 6:16 am #1296086MDGParticipant“Does that forfeit my ability to find a shiduch?”
Stop worrying about what others say. Hashem is in charge of making zivugim.
June 14, 2017 8:28 am at 8:28 am #1296108K-cupParticipantHe says you can open and attend if needed. Im not sure what financial situation is considered nescesary, just that if the schools are not financially stable enough separately, you can (or should) combine them otherwise people would send to public schools. It sounds like sending out of town to separate schools is clearly a better options, im just saying there no reason to say what this school or community is doing is clearly assur.
June 14, 2017 9:13 am at 9:13 am #1296123β DaasYochid βParticipantim just saying there no reason to say what this school or community is doing is clearly assur.
I don’t think they would be justified in following that psak vs. the psak of the gedolim in the US.
June 14, 2017 9:14 am at 9:14 am #1296125β DaasYochid βParticipantAnd, as you said, it’s a better option to send out of town.
June 14, 2017 10:31 am at 10:31 am #1296274K-cupParticipantI believe he says attend, not open. Is there a psak from American gedolim that say it’s always assur to send to coed schools, even in cases where the parents can’t send out of town? I’ve seen a few tshuvos in passing, not an expert. Rav Moshe seems to say co-ed schools should be avoided, but I don’t think he says assur always to attend.
June 14, 2017 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #1297016FuturePOTUSParticipantPeople on the Coffee Room are very quick to say things are assur. It’s quite amusing. Not everything is so black and white. (Pun intended, V’Hameivin Yavin.)
June 15, 2017 8:31 am at 8:31 am #1297094K-cupParticipantI think they don’t really understand what assur means
June 15, 2017 9:28 am at 9:28 am #1297109πRebYidd23ParticipantFuturePotus, that was lashon hara and therefore assur!
June 15, 2017 10:27 am at 10:27 am #1297209β DaasYochid βParticipantRav Moshe held that at the age the yetzer hora takes effect, it’s absolutely assur.
June 15, 2017 12:13 pm at 12:13 pm #1297345K-cupParticipantHe very clearly says it’s not always assur, there are cases it would be allowed.
June 15, 2017 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #1297348β DaasYochid βParticipantOnly for very small children. Certainly not high school. He says that would always be assur, l’kulei alma.
June 15, 2017 12:48 pm at 12:48 pm #1297358β DaasYochid βParticipantJune 15, 2017 12:57 pm at 12:57 pm #1297360rafaella1836ParticipantYou know arguing about this is pretty unhelpful. Tshuvah exists for a reason. I’m sure that this debate does not feel nice to the person who originally posted the topic.
June 15, 2017 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #1297551K-cupParticipantKol shecain if there are such schools, no? Granted it’s assur to choose a coed school over a separate school. But a coed school over public, or an unlicensed home school? In that particular case, do we say they’re equally assur, so better public school to involve fewer Jews in an aveira, or a coed Yeshiva high school to get at least some Torah. I don’t see where R’ Moshe is addressing that specifically.
June 15, 2017 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #1297565β DaasYochid βParticipantHe says it’s assur mi’dina.
June 15, 2017 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1297697June 15, 2017 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1297723chabadgalParticipanti feel public school is better than co ed, cuz in co ed jewish school youre like ‘its ok, its jewish, nothing wrong can happen’ but in public school you KNOW you are different
June 16, 2017 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #1298175K-cupParticipantHe is clearly speaking lchatchila as he answers it’s assur to have mixed classes and stresses you must go to a non coed yeshiva. He does not address when no such option exists, do you mix, go to public school, or not go to school at all.
June 16, 2017 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #1298179β DaasYochid βParticipantHe says it’s assur, and two separate schools must be built.
June 16, 2017 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #1298182K-cupParticipantExactly, you must build other schools.
While gathering funds and finding rabbaim for two schools, what do you do? That doesn’t happen quickly. If you come up short on money and teachers, what do you do?
Lchatchila you build, you search for better options. When it’s not there, may you send a frum child or teen to a coed school or in those circumstances, or must you sit the school year out?June 16, 2017 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #1298185β DaasYochid βParticipantIf there’s no kosher butcher, are you allowed to eat treif until someone opens a kosher shop?
June 16, 2017 3:13 pm at 3:13 pm #1298202K-cupParticipantNo, but the issue involved in coed schools is not literally walking into a classroom with with boys and girls in it. The issue is being in an environment that may store up inappropriate thoughts or lead to inappropriate actions. Similar to going to a mall, or a water park ect.
June 16, 2017 3:16 pm at 3:16 pm #1298208K-cupParticipantAlso I’m done with this conversation, you can review the tshuva with a real Rav and ask if this issue is comparable to a case of treif meat
June 16, 2017 3:17 pm at 3:17 pm #1298209πRebYidd23ParticipantPublic school is best because you get public funding.
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