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Is it okay to call the shadchan on your own without your parents getting involved if your 20 years old?
I personally favor that but it goes against the norms of the frum community. I wish I can recall when the shidduch process changed to the way it is now that the parents basically decide whom you should date, with or without your input.
It’s always been the norm for the initial contact, until dating was underway, to be conducted between the shadchan and parents.
You are using the term ‘always’ very loosely
I don’t know who made up these shidduch “rules”. I’ve had singles of all ages call me asking for a shidduch, I’ve had mothers call and I’ve had fathers call. To me it makes no difference. I personally prefer speaking to the single even if it’s just on the phone so I can get a better idea of what they are about. Parents will always rave about their kids and maybe it’s true in many cases, but I have to take what they say with a grain of salt. Many shadchanim wouldn’t go for the idea of speaking to a young lady directly. If I were you, I’d call the shadchan and ask if she doesn’t mind speaking to me directly so she could get a better idea of what you are like and what you are looking for. If she would prefer speaking to a parent, you’ll have to do that, if you want to work with them. You can’t change the system-it’s broken and archaic but you have no choice. Only Rabbanim can make the changes unilaterally. Hazlacha rabba!
**beep beep** calling meno
“Is it okay to call the shadchan on your own without your parents getting involved if your 20 years old?”
I’ve always dealt with all my shidduchim on my own, and so have most of my friends, but these things probably have to do with your community and family.
As an American in Israel, I wasn’t part of a community, so I had a lot more leeway regarding these kinds of “rules”.
I guess the questions you have to ask yourself are:
1. Why is it important to you to call the shadchanim on your own?
2. In your community, would it be very looked-down-on and cause people to think poorly of you or affect the type of shidduch suggestions you get?
3. Once you have answered questions 1 & 2, weigh the answers against each other in order to reach a decision.
Personally, it doesn’t sound like a big deal to me, but I don’t know your community and family norms.
Hatzlacha!
rebshidduch: That’s why it’s important for everyone to have a Rav or a mentor they can turn to for these types of questions.
Perhaps you could try befriending a kollel family
and seeing some of the lifestyle yourself?
As regards general mentorship, I don’t know,
but I expect that someone here will have an idea.
either you get married young or wait and become an older single
Surely there’s an age in between…
It’s not clear why you don’t want your parents involved. They don’t want you dating yet and you do?
It’s quite normal (non chasidish circles) to start dating at 21-22, even 23 for a boy. Considering that, I would not consider mid-twenties for a guy to be an older single. Not when there are so many guys in their 30s and older still single.
I think rebshidduch is female. Am I correct?
Shmiras Haloshon: I believe so, yes.
rebshidduch: Was there a teacher in seminary (assuming you went) or in high school that you were close to?
Shmiras Haloshon – I think so too. Which explains why she thinks she either has to get married young or be an older single. Apparently, she considers 20 to be young (which many would agree with), but 22 or 23 are already considered older singles. So that is why she feels her choices are to get married young or be an older single.
I suppose if she gets married at 21, she can avoid either situation, but you can’t plan things that precisely. 21 is probably the one age that no one would consider either young or an older single (unless you’re Chassidish or very modern).
Rebshidduch, it sounds like the reason you want to call shadchanim on your own is because you are not from the kind of family where these things go through the parents.
If that is the case, for sure you should call shadchanim on your own, and don’t worry about it. Many people do it that way. It is very normal.
They won’t assume that just because you have an email address that means that you will allow your kids to use internet. Most shadchanim will anyhow assume you have email and ask you to email your resume.
You could have email access at work, or your parents could have a computer even if you are not planning on having one in your own home, or you could be using a friend or neighbor’s computer. Many people have email addresses even if they don’t own a computer, and most shadchanim will not even think about it.
Just say, “Hi, my name is _____, I’m 20 years old and looking for a shidduch, and I was given your name.”
Let the shadchan take it from there. She/he will probably want you to email a resume and to set up an appointment to meet in person. Or she may ask you over the phone to tell her/him about yourself and what you are looking for. Be prepared with a basic speech about yourself and what you are looking for.
I think it would be a good idea (if possible) to speak to someone first to get a good idea of what to expect when meeting a shadchan and to help you prepare what to say. Also, to help you get an idea of what you are looking for. If you have no one to speak to, don’t worry about it. But try to think if you have anyone to speak to. Maybe a teacher, or a neighbor, or a family friend, or a friend who is already in shidduchim.
Rebshidduch – I got that. My point was that I’m agreeing with you that it’s a good idea.
Maybe you can try Rosie & Sherry. I think they have a dating column on Aish.com. They may have their own website as well. They may be able to answer your questions as well as refer you to a mentor.
They are “dating experts” who help people who are dating and they also train mentors. My one hesitation is that I’m not sure which segment of the population they have expertise in. I don’t know if it’s all segments or specifically older singles, or people from a certain type of haskafa/background.
But either way, I think they have mentors who are skilled at dealing with different types, so you can tell them about yourself, and hopefully, they can find the right type of mentor for you.
okay, I just googled for you. Their website is called “Sasson v’Simcha”.
Check it out. I think you’ll find it useful. You should be able to get a mentor through them.
Hatzlacha!
I don’t know. That is what I wasn’t 100% sure of. I think that they all familiar with and work with a broad range within the Orthodox world. Tell them what you are looking for and ask if they have mentors that would be suitable for you.
rebshidduch: Not bad. Also you can tell yourself that you are dating now and take actions that affirm and assert that you are in fact dating.
Calling the shadchan can be one thing. Think of it as the work needed to get someplace else, which may redirect your focus and reduce the anxiety.
“Can i send my resume to the shadchan without calling first? Do i need to call or can i just send my resume?”
You could, but follow up with a phone call, especially if they don’t email you back within app. 2 days.
“Is it really that bad if im 20 and still not dating?”
No. I wish I hadn’t started dating at 20. I only started then because I was literally forced to.
Even though most girls start at around 19, a lot of them anyhow don’t get married until they are 21 or 22 (at least from the girls I know – I don’t have any statistics).
I would guess that that may be because the boys only start at 23 or 24, and not everyone’s zivug is 4 years older than them, so their zivug was not even dating yet when they started dating.
Also, a lot of girls nowadays are not ready yet to be married at 20. Plus, many are in school and need to finish before they can get married. Even if they are not in school, it can be very helpful or even necessary to have the time to figure out what you want to do parnassah-wise and to start getting training in something. If you want to marry someone who is learning, this can be very important.
I’m not saying there is anything at all wrong with starting to date before or at 20; I’m just saying that you shouldn’t feel like you have to start before or at 20.
The reason to start dating at 20 should certainly not be fear of being an older single, imho.
You have to figure out if you are really ready to start dating yet or not. A dating mentor can be helpful for this. I suggest you be in touch with someone from Rosie & Sherry’s website.
Rebshidduch, if you don’t know much about a kollel lifestyle, why are you looking for a boy who wants to learn in kollel? Rather than saying you’re looking for kollel guys, as those are usually men who learned in yeshiva (does not usually pay any money) and got married and now learn in a kollel (which hopefully pays them money), you should say that you’re looking for a yeshiva bochur.
As the kollel lifestyle requires many sacrifices, it should not be entered into lightly and the girl should be fairly familiar with what life in the home looks like in order to make a success of her marriage. If she has expectations that cannot be fulfilled in this type of life, then she will not get what she wants in the end of things.
Also, if you are looking to get into shidduchim without your parents’ involvement, are they planning on helping you after you get married? While it is not obligatory, many boys will need some kind of assistance to balance out the support that they get from their kollel and the usually low starting salary of the woman when she starts working. Of course if you have money saved up and/or a good job, then your parents do not need to be involved in that aspect of the finances.
Do you have a teacher from high school or seminary who you were close to/friendly with and can help advise you? The best person is someone who actually lives that lifestyle, so you can ask questions and get feedback.
Hatzlacha!
“Is it okay for a 20 year old girl to call a shadchan whos a rabbi about setting her up?”
yes.
“Is an email message enough for the shadchan? Would they set you up or just ignore the email because they have so many others?’
There is a good chance that they will ignore it. That is why you should follow up with a phone call in a day or two if they don’t respond to your email.
Rebshidduch: when trying to reach “busy” people, you usually need to be a little pushy. So don’t just call and leave a message (although definitely do that as well) but if you don’t get a return call within 2 days or so try phoning again. You can call (try to vary the time of day) about once or twice a day, but only leave a message intermittently. If you don’t get through after a week or so, ask around if the Shadchan has a better number to be reached at — or it’s time to find a better Shadchan. Someone that is so overwhelmed will likely not be of much help to you in any case. (Unless she had extenuating circumstances that made her busier than usual. Which is where your research may come in handy as well.)
And remember the Yiddish saying that you can’t get a potch over the phone…
Rebshidduch, I vehemently disagree with Mammale’s saying to be pushy. It will totally annoy the shadchan and turn her off.
Before the invention of caller id, you could call people as often as you like. But nowadays, if you keep calling someone, it annoys them since they can see on the caller id that the same person keeps calling.
I would not call more than once a day. If you leave a message, wait two days before calling again.
I’m not sure that you should leave a message the first time you call. I would wait until the second time, although it’s not a big deal either way.
I agree with Mammele that if you are having trouble getting through, it makes sense to vary the time of day. However, I would probably start by calling between 9:00 and 10:00 pm, and then try calling in the morning (before approximately 1:00).
Rebshidduch – that sounds like an excellent idea.
“Any good shadchanim in lakewood that works with boys learning full time?”
So you’ve changed your mind already?
Maybe she is getting a head start in the process
Meno, are you thinking what I think you’re thinking?
LU,
I think so.
Are you thinking the same thing I’m thinking?
I’m on the fence about this one.
What are you two thinking?
It’s okay to change one’s mind. Maybe she felt overwhelmed and needed a break… now she is ready to try again.
me too. I thought of it, but was unsure until I saw your post. That raised my suspicions because you tend to be pretty good at these things.
But I’m still not sure – could be either way.
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