Sheitels

if someone cant tell your wearing a sheitel it looks exactly like your hair its wrong

…nuances get lost in translation.

SJS, It may well be less than 10 years. Nevertheless, whenever this unfortunate activity debuted, it began in small numbers – mainly amongst those who follow every fad and trend – and from there unfortunately spread to others. So its being used in large numbers, may be of more recent vintage.

For all those who comment on the wrongness of wearing real-looking sheitels- PLEASE, PLEASE tell me exactly where in the Gemarah it states that a head coverong has to look phony or ugly? If you believe this to be so and there is no halachic source that states the fact, then you are assuming that the reason for covering the hair is in order to make a woman look unattractive (which would make her look unattractive to her husband too, no doubt). Ha-Shem did not even state in the Torah shebichsav that a married woman must cover her hair. It was inferred from the Isha Sotah. I personally cover my hair, but I have a problem with the inference issue, because if a married woman’s hair is erva, then why is it not untzniusdig for the Kohein to unwrap it? Is he likewise allowed to unwrap the rest of clothing (erva is erva)? Is the justification for this because she committed adultery? What if she was totally INNOCENT – then he has seen her (hair) erva and she didn’t even deserve that embarrassment.

The whole covering the hair inyan has always bothered me because I believe too many people make assumptions about the halacha. Perhaps a woman should never wear anything but rags, lest she appear attractive to others. That also covers her erva. Somehow, I do not accept that women wore ugly wigs in ancient times, if in fact they wore wigs at all. Maybe it is assur to wear a pretty hat, scarf, or other attractive headcovering.

If the specific halacha is to cover the hair because the woman’s own hair growing from her head is erva, then that has nothing to do with the TYPE of covering. If however the halacha is to cover the hair because Ha-Shem wants her to look less attractive, then the point made about the wigs would hold validity. I would sincerely love to know how Rav Elyashiv was able to see what type wigs Jewish women wore in ancient time, as he seems so certain of the styles.

Joseph no offence but you drive me and I would assume many other people very crazy. It is very intresting how you spend your WHOLE day bashing women and what they are doing wrong. you seem to always be commenting. Your job is to learn and you dont seem to be doing much of that. So why dont you leave our issues to us and work on your own issues. Thank you.

Thank you. I didnt say Torah bashes women I said that you do.

anon, criticize what? And which part of the Torah?

Joseph, thank you for the source, but that was not my question. I did not so much question whether or not married women should cover their hair according to the TORAH, but rather where there is any source in the TORAH that the hair must be covered in an unattractive way i.e., with an ugly wig. I question what the intent of the halacha might possibly be. Did Ha-Shem want women to make themselves unattractive by covering themselves in unflattering hair coverings (and then why not ugly clothing, too?), or is it simply that the natural growing hair of the married woman takes on a halachic status that it must be kept private for her husband’s eyes alone? In that case, one cannot ipso facto infer from that statement that the intent is to make her ugly to other men, but simply rather that she is to keep her natural erva only for her husband. There is a huge difference between saying she must look unattractive to others, or saying that her natural hair must be for her husband alone to see, but she can still cover that natural hair with other (nice) hair, because it is NOT her own hair.

The true issue here is tznius. Halachically a woman can wear a garbage bag and be covered perfectly-but does anyone do that? The hallmark of a Jewish woman is her tznius-her modestly in speech, action and way of dress. When a woman is wearing a long flowing natural looking sheitel, a tight t shirt and a pencil skirt with six inch heels she is technically covered by halacha-but is she observing the spirit of the law? The same goes for the men who imitate the fashion trends that are so obviously pritzus. I think that the entire issue is that some Jewish women (and men) have become enslaved to whatever trend happens to be current-and that is what is being protested by the gedolim. If a Jew is following whatever goyishe trend is in place then it is an indication of where the focus is-and it is the rabbonim’s job to focus the nation on its spiritual priorities. One reason we were taken out of galus mitzrayim was because we did not change our way of dress, we looked distinctly different from the Egyptians. With geula so imminent, it is right for the gedolim to wake us up!

OOMIS

No one says you have to wear a rag on your head. There are some very nice scarves and head coverings out there. And as far as eye catching scarves, I remember my husband commenting on a the color of head scarf, (a bright orange color seen from all the way down the block.) that it was too bright and noticeable. A woman can look attractive, not attracting. Some of these long sheitels are just not not right and they are very attracting. If they(the wig) make another man look at her and think in imodest thought, then she is at fault. Also, the wigs from 50% ago looked like straw. You could tell they were wigs. You know where a woman is suppose to look attractive?? in her home for her husband only!!! Our wonderful mothers ,before we were redeemed from Mitzrayim, that used their coopper mirrors to beautify themselves for their husbands only, not the Egyptian man walking down the street. Do you think they wore wigs?? Do you think that their husbands thought they were less beautiful because they wore a head covering. Because of those same women, we were redeemed from Mitzrayim and Hashem accepted their gift to the Mishkan, because it was used for a holy deed.

One thing about the moslem women on how they cover themselves L’havdil no matter what, their sin, this is surely is a zechus for Yismahael. I think we really need to be even more vigilant in our standard of Tzinyus. I am sure the Rav knows alot more as needs to be done to bring our own geula quickly. My dear sisters it is time once again to rise against the Yetzer Hara and not give in. He is a very cunning being. Surely, our return to even higher standard of Tzinyus will be a zechus for Klal Yisrael. We had the back power than and we have to power to do it again!!

Basically the point is that one should focus more on making a Sheitel into a covering of the hair as apposed to a nice piece of clothing. This does not and i repeat not mean that one has to walk around with a horrible Sheitel just as one doesn’t have to walk around with horrible clothes…

Intresting that you think that all you do is quote from the Torah. Where is your source for the comment that you dont want ladies in high government positions? And how are you so aware of everything that women are doing wrong in their dress. Again, no offence.

Yanky,

Precisely. The reason many poskim do not allow ANY sheitels is precisely because it can be mistaken for the wearers regular hair.

And that also answers the question of what is the problem with genuine-looking sheitels, even according to the poskim whp DO allow sheitels.

“Precisely. The reason many poskim do not allow ANY sheitels is precisely because it can be mistaken for the wearers regular hair.”

So what???? What if the wearer’s REAL hair is really ugly? Does it make that hair any less assur to be viewed by a man other than her husband? No. It has nothing to do with the beauty or lack thereof, it would seem to me, but rather the fact that the hair acquires a new status of kedusha upon marriage. To explain my point in a more readily understandable venue, when askewd why we don’t eat bacon, we cannot say it is because bacon is horrible, tastes bad, is unhealthy, etc. Nope – it is delicious (so tells me my baal teshuva husband), but it not mutar for a Jew to eat – period! So we don’t eat it. A woman’s natural hair does not have to be ugly in order for us to have a chiyuv to cover it. Nor do we have to look ugly in the covering of it. It is just not mutar to show it to any man but the person for whose eyes it is intended.

I have a feeling this topic is going to be a really long thread because it is such a sensitive issue among jewish women. It is really a hard thing for women to give up, but if is going to bring Moshiach easier, then why not do it. I think some women do wear a sheitel because they want to blend in a little more and not be seen as so obviously jewish. Really, be honest with yourselves about this. If your Rav issued a takanah tomorrow, that wigs are not really tzinus and are therefore no longer acceptable, would you be willing to go along with it?? Let’s say there was a working woman with a major meeting that day?? What would you do?? Who are we covering our hair for??? Hashem of course!! You see that is the problem with people. We fear others more, we fear what other people may think of us, we fear the economy collapsing, we fear illnesses, but we don’t have a fear of Hashem, or His messenger, the Rabbonim. Hashem purposely, took away that fear of Him, so we would be able to have bechirah, free will. The goal in life is to try to regain it and put our bitachon in Hashem.

oomis, you are very wise and I feel a strong connection to you through your posts.

mazal77, I do not cover my hair for HaShem nor to bring Moshiach – I cover my hair for ME, it is a mitzva that HaShem gave to ME as interpreted by our sages. But I stress that I do it for ME not HaShem as with all of the mitzvos. I keep Shabbos and taharas hamishpacha and kashrus for ME because Ha Kodosh Baruch Hu gave ME the opportunity to do these mitzvos to improve ME.

I love my yiddishkeit – its really all about ME!

Yes, it is all about ME – so that I can be a better ME to serve HaShem.

Mazal: You speak true words of wisdom.

Yoshi: You would feel at home in many communities that do not allow wigs (e.g. Satmar), and the women wear snoods.

While it is hard to see how a real-looking sheitel could possibly be erva l’maiseh (it DOES cover the hair after all), I don’t see why it is so hard to accept that these types of sheitels lacking in tznius. Yes, tznius allows for, and encourages being attractive, but when you are so attractive that you begin attracting improper attentions, that is not ok. There is a line (and we can open a new forum to debate what that line is…)

As someone said before, the yetzer hara really has brainwashed us with regard to sheitel, r”l. While the ideas behind head-covering after marriage are complex and kabbalistically rooted, there is still an over-riding aspect of tznius- a married woman has to be even more careful about tznius than a single woman!

Also, why does everyone think tichels and snoods equal ugliness? I have a great collection of tichels and snoods, and my friends always compliment me on them, and I feel good about how I dress. Anyway, sheitels are horribly uncomfortable.

We take too many shortcuts in tznius- shortcuts that we wouldn’t dare to take in any other area of our observance. Tznius is not specifically written out in the Torah, because the Torah lives and breathes tznius in every word, and because it is a spirit more than a cut-and-dried set of rules. We should live our lives that way too, and dress in the spirit even when we can find the loopholes. We should be zocheh to bring about the geula through careful observance of tznius.

Headcoverings for women are a machloket poskim; with some saying from the Torah, others from the rabbis, and a daat yachid here and there saying it is a pious minhag. OTOH, Rav Elyashiv and Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef forbid wigs, but OTOH Rav Hirsch said that a woman can fulfill the headcovering requirement by fashioning a wig from her own hair! Every Jewish woman should follow her own rabbi on this one — and we Jewish men should honor them when they do that, however they do that.

Halavai your words were written so nicely put and so beautifully.

small town girl, you are contradicting yourself when you say you don’t wear a wig for Hashem or to bring Moshiach, but for yourself because it is a mitzvah. That means you are doing it for Hashem, because He is the the one who gave you that mitzvah in the first place. If He didn’t command it, you wouldn’t do it. I read somewhere of a dream a woman had and they told her in her dream that Moshiach was being held back because women wear wigs and even though some Rabonimm gave the okay, a woman will still be responible, even though she davened and was a perfect tzadakess. I have given that website in a previous post. I had written another post with then name of that story, but it was edited by YWN. Also, you say you are doing it because of the mitzvah, the whole point of the Torah is to come to the realization of Moshiach and that Hashem is the true creator of the world. To fear Hashem is the ultimate thing. It seems you care more about what others think of you in how you dress, then what Hashem really wants from us. If something like this is holding back the Moshiach, then I say Rabonnim, bring on that takanah!! Don’t you want Moshiach? All the problems the whole world is going through, we have a chance to resolve it peacefully and do teshuvah. That window to do teshuva before Moshaiach comes will be very small. The economy has not even hit rockbottom yet. Hashem is showing us that nothing in this world is stable except for the belief in Hashem. I guess I am very worried about the world situation and I DO want to help bring Moshaich easily. I am praying that Hashem should not harm not even one Jew, religous or not. And that we all unite and come to do teshuva together while it is still peacefull and not while we are forced to do teshuva

Also, I read somewhere, that women started wearing wigs 60 years ago, because they were prohibted from wearing hats. Those wigs did not look anything we have nowadays. I don’t think that if those Rabonnim that gave permission back then on wigs, if they saw the wigs some Jewish women wear today, for sure they would forbid it. Like a said the Yetzer Hara came in and messed us up. And the fact that some women are saying that there own hair is ugly and of course would want to cover it up with an attractive wig.

Oomiss, why do you think dressing completely be’tzinus = being dowdy. Who has told you, that you have to look ugly out in public?? Who said single girls have to look dowdy, unless you think a skirt below the knees and a covering neckline and sleeves to the wrists is dowdy. Do you wear straight skirts that barely cover the knees that when you sit the skirt rides up?? When I go shopping for skirts, I take the sitting challange. If they show my knees, they go back to the rack. If I have to keep pulling the skirt down because it rides up, it goes back on the rack. Or do you check that your elbow sleeves doesn’t reveal the above the elbows as you reach for something. I have very stylish friends who only wear scarves, They wears Coach scarves,Channel & Gucci. I have seen many other women dress completely b’tzinus and look fine. They wear their beautiful scarves so tastefully, it looks like a crown on their heads. About the work force, I am not critizing them, They work very hard. I gave an example. But they and you have to realize who we are dressing for. Hashem, the King of all Kings!!! Not our bosses, not for a wedding or party. We are Daughters of the King. We are responible to dress modestly AND look nice, as long as it is the guidelines of tzinus. When someone dresses nicely AND b’tzinus, it is a Kiddush Hashem. When someone dresses like a shlump,it is not a kiddush Hashem. It IS possible to dress sharp and do it modestly.

I learned in a class that a man has his torah learning to earn Olam Habah, but then what of a woman who is not obligated to learn torah, how does she earn Olam Habah, what is her equlivant to torah learning?? It is to dress modestly. (also encouraging her husband and sons to go learn)

All I am saying is I think that because we were redeemed from Miztrayim because of the Tzyinus of women, and we’re still waiting for him.

To answer you Mazel77, I wear long, comfortable (not tight) skirts the almost come to my ankles and sleeves that are no shorter than 3/4 length. If you saw me, you would describe me as Tzniusdig in my manner of dress. To be honest, many single Yeshivish girls whom I have observed in certain neighborhoods, DO look frumpy. They are not well-groomed in many respects, and that is very sad, if they are of a shidduch parsha age, because they are not presenting themselves in a particularly attractive way. If I were a Yeshivah bochur being set up with that girl, I would find it hard to be interested in getting to knwo her better. Girls do not all have to be beautiful, thin, and blonde in order to have a good boy want to marry them. But they do have to have a modicum of style and good taste, wear clothing that fits and flatters as well as being tzniusdig. There is no either or here.

If you mean frumpy by those “down to the floor skirts”, some consider those immodest because they attract attention being that they are so long.

do you live in Passaic??

Nope – – what’s the deal with Passaic? I have Mishpacha near Lakewood, though.