- This topic has 49 replies, 26 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 5 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
WERE FASTING 2MORROW!! HELP!!
drink poweraid.
is anyone here chassidish and therefore doesn’t fast on fast days except for Yom Kipur and Tisha B’Av? just wondering. have an easy tanis.
Such a minhag even exists? Unless you mean something else ..?
😀 Zuberman! 😀
Chasidish girls don’t fast?
Talking about girls or women? Many chasidish girls do fast. But a women? Why should they fast?? You know what they say, they’re either pregnant, nursing, or just not feeling well… 🙂
My girls don’t really fast. If they want to they can till chatzos and then break it.
yeah giggle girl, i am. it’s kinda awesome that i don’t have to fast, cuz i hate fasting. hope everyone out there has an easy fast tho.
Ya, it is very common in the chassidish world for the girls/women not to fast besides y”k and tisha baav. We always ask my father how this minhag managed to get lost in my family since we all fast but he’s pretty lax about it. If we need to, we can break it…
We just had a 3 day yom tov!!! i think your stomach deserves a break after all that food 😉
BTW what’s the reason why we fast today?
We just had a 3 day yom tov!!! i think your stomach deserves a break after all that food 😉
BTW what’s the reason why we fast today?
I always said Tzom Gedalia comes at a great time in the calander- after all those Yom Tov meals 🙂
I just wish I could switch Yom Kipper till after Simchas Torah….that’s when it’s Diet Season anyways! 🙂
LuvMe – great! i’m not the only one in the CR who doesn’t fast!
HAVE A GMAR CHASIMA TOVA! I HOPE EVERYONE’S TEFILLOS ARE ANSWERED FOR THE GOOD.
The SA says e/o has to fast, so there can’t be such a minhag. But there are certain groups in Klal Yisroel that are more Meikel in this than others. E/o should ask their own Rov what to do.
Health: There were very strong Minhagim in many places that women never fasted except for Tishah B’av and Yom Kippur, and in some places they only fasted Yom Kippur.
The title of this thread is a kinui for the name of the founder of the Western world’s largest religion. Perhaps it can be changed! V’shem elohim acherim lo sazkiru, lo yishama al picha!
sure, but I can’t think of any that isn’t a kinui for shem Hashem or yushka. Gosh, Golly, Heavens; even’t popa’s Blazes is probably Heck. Gumball: what do you want to rename it?
Sam2 – What I’m saying is that these places who did it, did it because they were Meikel (for whatever reason), not because they had a Minhag differently than the SA!
Health: So many did it that it’s hard to call it being Meikil Shelo K’din. I would think it qualifies as a Minhag. I’m not sure how you would distinguish between the two.
“BTW what’s the reason why we fast today?”
Gedalya ben Achikam was murdered and the Jews went into exile. He heard of the assassination attempt but did not take precautions, saying that it was L”H. (He might have taken the precautions while not believing the L”H)
It is not simply a minhag, but a halachic issue.I n the Brisker circles and other communities here in EY many women also do not fast on the short fast days, only TB and YK. From what I understand, it’s for 1 of at least 2 reasons. One is the fasts are meant only for healthy people and women in our times are consider svach (weak), so are unable to fast. Second, the Briskers are very makpid on venishmartem me’od lenafshoseichem, so the woman do not fast even when they are not pregnant or nursing. My daughter does fast, as do I, but we don’t seem to have a hard time fasting. If my next daughter, who will be bas mitzvah next month, has a hard time fasting, then I will ask my husband to ask a shailah.
giggle girl: I’m chassish, and I didn’t either fast. ???? ???? ??? ????, huh?:)
This is very accepted (that girls / women in the Chassidisheh circles do not fast) based on the folloing premise:
They are either:
too young to fast (and it might hurt their future productivity)
too old to fast
they are expecting / nurshing (or soon will be)
Everyone (according to the chassidisheh mindset) falls into one of the above 3 categories, so aside from Tisha B’Av, Yom Kippur (and in some households, Taanis Ester), women do not fast
what was the original name of this thread. just see it now and im laughing.
And did you fast?
Health-
Perhaps a simple limud zechus:
From the Gemara in Rosh Hashana (18b) it comes out that when the Jews are being ruled by the non-Jews but there is no ????? ??? if Klal Yisroel wants to fast they do and if not not. The reason we all fast today, brings the MB, is because Klal Yisroel has accepted upon themselves to fast. Perhaps the “minhag” of these segments of Klal Yisroel came about because they hold that the women never accepted upon themselves to fast, similar to what many say about ma’ariv.
Yitay: I don’t think that’s a Limud Z’chus. I think that’s Poshut P’shat.
Sam – I hear. As long as someone is maskim 🙂
yitayningwut -“Perhaps the “minhag” of these segments of Klal Yisroel came about because they hold that the women never accepted upon themselves to fast”
Sorry the Rema says Befairush and the MB explains -this is only Pregnant and nursing women who didn’t accept it upon themselves. On e/o else including other women the Biur Halacha says -“it became a Taanis Chova”. And like Sam2 says -this is “Poshut P’shat” in the S’A. So you can’t say there is a Minhag for certain segments not to fast except for pregnant and nursing, unless you find Achronim whom argue on the S’A and then you can be Someach on them. Right now all Poskim can do is say that the certain individual fits into one of the categories were they don’t have to fast; eg. -sick, pregnant or nursing. I just think the Brisker Rov & others held most women will fall into one of these categories. But nowadays we have medical tests to know if s/o is pregnant or anemic or something like this. So I can’t see anyone just giving a blanket Heter for any group not to fast!
bpt- if you are talking to me- yes I did fast.
Health: Minhag Oker Halacha. The Minhag for women not to fast in some places is very old and accepted and therefore doesn’t really need a Haskama from the Poskim. It is not a Minhag I would recommend to anyone looking to create their own Minhagim (e.g. a Ba’al T’shuva) but it definitely is legitimate for those who do it.
” yes I did fast.”
So I guess that rules out you being Chassidish.
I happen to agree with you, and am against the notion that women cannot fast for one day without doing bodily harm.
If they can diet and / or spend a day hiking thru a mall (at least a 5 mile trek, over a 6 hour day), they can fast.
I remember thinking that I wish I didnt have to fast until my uncle was sick with cancer and had to eat on Yom Kippur. he said it was the worst thing in the world. you are dying and wanna fast all day and beg Hashem to give you another year of life but you have to eat!
Health-
On e/o else including other women the Biur Halacha says -“it became a Taanis Chova”.
I don’t think that’s much of an argument. These segments do not need to hold like that.
you can’t say there is a Minhag for certain segments not to fast except for pregnant and nursing, unless you find Achronim whom argue on the S’A and then you can be Someach on them.
Not true. You absolutely cannot call it a minhag shtus if l’maiseh they are clearly following the ruling of the Gemara, regardless if it accords with the Shulchan Aruch; al zeh amru minhag mevatel halacha as Sam is tayna-ing.
yitayningwut & sam2 -You’re both saying the same thing -that a Minhag can take precedence over Din. What I’m saying -Who said it was ever a Minhag? The places that didn’t have the women fast was because they were Meikel with women, not because of some Alte Minhag. So if you can be Mevaer which women nowadays can have a Heter and which can’t, I see no reason to be Meikel, in spite of the fact you keep screaming Minhag!
BaalHabooze, you have the option of fasting BaHaV.
People skipped the “minor” fast days before the shulchan aruch. Some continued the tradition. The Chayei adam is very mekel about shiva asar b’tammuz and on shabbos someone mentioned to me b’shem his father that in Europe many people would eat because without it they couldn’t work (and if they didn’t work they wouldn’t eat the next day and so on)
Bpt mentioned earlier in this thread that some women only fast on Yom Kippur, Tisha B’Av, and Taanis Esther. Where does that come from, isn’t that the most meikel fast?
42 – According to what my husband told me, a person who doesn’t fast on Taanis Esther for whatever reason – sick, pregnant, nursing, etc, has to be mashlim the fast at a time when they are not in that matzav. Obviously if the psak is that women are weak (I think Dayan Fisher ztzvk”l gave such a psak in EY) then they will basically never mashlim the fasts that they missed, but I think the idea is that it’s not exactly like the other fasts zecher le’churban (Tzom Gedalyah, 17 Tammuz and Asara b’Teves).
Awwwwww….ANOTHER fast day?????? No one told me….when is it?????
Shabbos. But pushed off to Sunday. And then another one (A BIG one!) exactly three weeks after.
Start drinking water!
Hatzlacha!! May they be easy and meaningful!
SiDi™
Summary Laws of the fast of the 17th of Tammuz
3196. One is obligated to fast on the Public fast days established by The Nevi-im which are: 17th of Tammuz, Tisha B’Av (9th of Av), 3rd of Tishrei (Tzom Gedalaya), 10th of Teves, and the 13th of Adar (Taanis Esther). (We will review the obligation with respect to women). Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 549:1
3197. On all these days we fast because of the tragedies that happened; to remind us that our behavior today is similar to the behavior of our forefathers which caused the tragedies, and to arouse us to do Teshuvah. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 549:1
3198. On all the Public fast days one is obligated to focus one’s attention (mind and heart) to examine one’s behavior and to do Teshuvah. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 549:1
3199. The focus on Teshuva is even more important than the fasting itself; Therefore, those who fast, but spend the day on trips or tours have “grabbed onto the (aspect of) minor (significance) and left over the (aspect of) major (significance)”. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 549:1
3200. Five tragedies happened on the 17th of Tammuz;
1. The 1st Luchos (Tablets) were broken;
2. The Korbon Tamid (daily sacrifice) was unable to be brought any longer (1st Beis Hamikdash);
3. Yerushalayim was breached (2nd Beis Hamikdash); (and 1st Beis Hamikdash according to
Gemara Yerushalmi. Other opinions say that it occurred on the 9th of Tammuz);
4. Apostomus Ha’Rasha burned the Torah;
5. and he placed an idol in the Heichal of the Beis Hamikdash;
Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 549:1
3201. Generally, The obligation to fast on public fast days includes women.
A) Nevertheless, many contemporary Poskim are lenient with regard to (married) women who are of child-bearing age, and allow them not to fast on the four fasts (excluding Tisha B’Av & Yom Kippur).
B) However, inasmuch as this leniency is not in accordance with Shulchan Aruch and many other Poskim, one should not be lenient without the specific direction of a Rov/Posek. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 550:1, Piskei Tshuvos 550:1
3202. Women who are nursing or pregnant (according to Mishnah Berurah – more than 40 days into the pregnancy), are not obligated to fast on the four fasts (excluding Tisha B’Av & Yom Kippur), and those who fast are acting according to the minhag to be strict (L’chumrah). Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 550:1
3203. A pregnant or nursing woman who is feeling weak (and certainly one who is sick) may not fast. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 550:1
3204. Anyone who is feeling sick is not obligated to fast, and may not act strictly in this regard. (The same is true for people who are weak or old and have been advised by a doctor that fasting could harm their health.) Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 550:1, Piskei Tshuvos 550:2
3205. One who is eating on a fast day (due to sickness, pregnancy or other permission) should not indulge oneself (with meat or wine). Rather one should only eat what is needed to sustain oneself.. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 550:1
3206. If one forgot that it was a fast day and unintentionally ate; one should nevertheless complete the rest of the fast day without eating. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 549:1
3207. On a fast day one should be particularly careful to avoid anger. If one is conducting business, one should be conscientious to behave in a calm and peaceful manner to avoid anger.
Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 568:12
3208. There is a minhag (mentioned in Tosafos Mes. Megillah beg. Chap. 3) to give Tzedakah at Mincha on the day of a Taanis. The mitzvah of Tzedakah is also mentioned in the Haftorah that is read at Mincha on a Taanis. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 566:2 MB12
3209. Some also have the minhag to estimate the value of the food outlay being saved due to the fast, and give that amount to the poor to eat for the evening meal. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Berurah 566:2 MB12
3210. On the day of a Taanis one should refrain from unnecessarily touching foods, lest one inadvertently eat during the fast. Piskei Tshuvos 589:1 citing Pri Migadim 612 citing Taz 612:8
3211. Restaurant owners should be aware that serving food on a Taanis to someone who is obligated to fast (as opposed to a sick person for example – who may eat) may involve the issur of Lifnei Iver – “Placing a stumbling block before a blind man”. Therefore, the decision of whether to remain open on a Taanis should be discussed with a Rov. S”U Maharsham 6:11, S”U Bais Shlomo 38, Yalkut Yosef – Moadim 530
Nechomah: That’s just not true. In fact, I think it’s against a B’feirush Mechaber. It’s somewhere in one of the Simanim on fasting that you don’t have to be Mashlim a Ta’anis Tzibbur if you have to eat for whatever reason but you do have to be Mashlim a Ta’anis Yachid that you accepted upon yourself.
42: What’s that from? It’s a good Sikkum but I don’t like the part in there about women not fasting not being done without direction of a Rav. It ignores the fact that there is a very strong Minhag that is still prevalent in many places for women not to fast the minor fasts. It might be against the Shulchan Aruch, but this Minhag is older than that and therefore isn’t overriden by the SH”A.
Reposted the halachos you put out to FB, YWN moderator.
THANKS!
I don’t understand why everyone is complaining this year. Yes, it is hot out- but, it’s on a sunday… you are allowed to eat shalosh seudos up to the start of the fast.
Eats lots of melons and grapes.
Water is good, but melon and grapes hold the water inside you longer. Gatorade is the best for AFTER the fast.
Juice is good too. Don’t over eat, but enough not to be hungry in the morning, at shalosh seudos.
Take advantage these fast- as being on sunday, you’re coming from a shabbos of eating good foods. It should be a meaningful fast, and not your typical sunday chores- even if you’re not fasting.
Don’t do too many stressful activities either.
And about the chasidushe thing of not fasting- NEVER HEARD OF IT!
Sam, I asked my husband and he says that in Hilchos Megilah O.C.686, S. Beis, the Rama says that on the ones who are mitzta’arim harbeh, afilu ko’avei eneim, don’t fast, v’yifre’u achar kach. So they’re supposed to mashlim it later. He told me that it is his chiddush, so I am not going to argue his position since I don’t completely understand all of the details.
42 – My husband says that Ra’avid holds that even pregnant women should fast but there are lots of poskim that don’t hold like this. Perhaps the women that BPT is referring to have their minhag based on the Ra’avid.
In EY, its almost over!!
SiDi™
Sam2 -“42: What’s that from? It’s a good Sikkum but I don’t like the part in there about women not fasting not being done without direction of a Rav. It ignores the fact that there is a very strong Minhag that is still prevalent in many places for women not to fast the minor fasts. It might be against the Shulchan Aruch, but this Minhag is older than that and therefore isn’t overriden by the SH”A.”
Again you repeat the same thing you wrote above.
Do you have any proof that this was a real Minhag, instead of a Minhag Shtus?
Also, do you have any proof that this “Minhag” preceded the S’A?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.