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Can anybody explain the Heter of shaving in the sefira because of business reasons? do all the halachas and minhugim in shulchan aruch fall away because of business reasons?
stomp
how much money do you think a person would have to sacrifice to avoid shaving during sefira? Half his income? 3/4? All of it?
“Can anybody explain the Heter of shaving in the sefira because of business reasons? do all the halachas and minhugim in shulchan aruch fall away because of business reasons?”
See, if you’d just included that first sentence, it would be construed only in the way that (I’ll be dan lekaf zechus that) it was intended- as a question about halacha that you’re genuinely interested in knowing the answer to.
The second sentence hits the whole thing out of the “curious guy” ballpark, straight over “respectfully disagreeing,” way beyond “disrespectfully disagreeing and not really caring why people who disagree with me do what they do because since they don’t agree with me they’re doing something wrong,” and straight into (IMHO) “troll territory.”
Why does the fact that the minhag not to shave during sefira is overriden by concerns for parnassah mean that “all the halachos and minhugim (sic) in Shulchan Aruch fall away because of business reasons”? First, there is obviously (at least to anyone who learns halacha) a major difference between a “halacha” and a minhag, even if both are recorded in shulchan aruch. The pedigree of a particular rule makes a major difference in what kind of factors may suffice to permit a lenient appraoch to that issue. Whether something is d’oraysah or d’rabbanan, gezeirah or takkanah, minhag hamakom, minhag hasochrim, minhag hamedinah, minhag yisrael, ect., are all important distinctions. Also, hefsed m’rubah (not just trite “business reasons” is a major tzad l’hakel for just about anything other than an issur d’oraysah.
ub- how about chillul shabbos. hint- all of it.
Toi, that is correct.
My question was regarding shaving during sefira (as was the op’s)
Are you saying sefira is as chamur as chilul shabbos?
Pilot1
Many people shave due to perceived reasons that it will affect their business. Its amazing how far people go to protect their perceived business interests. How far does anyone go to not lose some of their yiddishkiet and yiras shomayim? How much money would one forgo to not be oiver on a halacha? Btw most people don’t know this but it is paskened in shulchon aruch that one is chayyiv to lose all his money to not go against a lo sasei (not to compare a halacha to a mitzvas lo sasei just pointing out how we are supposed to view going against the Torah that we are ready to give up every last penny and be broke and homeless to not be oiver an eveira midoraysoh). It would be nice if everyone knew this. I guess its not for naught that learning shulchon aruch is unpopular these days.
you are allowed to shave on sefira if you work for a non jew & he expects a nice appearance for work.
there are more important things to worry about the shaving on sefira like behaving with a good character & not blasting your horns the second the light changes & much more that people need to correct thats way more important.etc….
ub- im not saying any psak. im just saying that the sarcastic tone of your retort was unwarranted, as losing income to fufill a halachah isnt a novelty. im not equating the two, but its for a posek to decide.
People blasting this really need to learn some Shulchan Aruch. Nihugei Aveilus of Sefirah are taken from, guess where, the Halachos of Aveilus. Included in the Halachos are Aveilus is the Halachah that some Aveilus is overriden for a Davar Ha’aveid. Thus, any loss of income (probably) is enough to shave during Sefirah. Certainly the loss of a job is. Look up the Halachos in Yoreh De’ah for the actual nitty-gritties.
Toi.
I was wondering how much the OP thought should be lost for a minhag.
For a mitzvas Asei deoraisa(!) the MOST a person has to lose is a chomesh (1/5).
If youre not equating (and you shoudnt since shabbos and sefira arent similar) why mention irrelevant examples
Poskim HAVE decided R’ Moshe allows shaving for parnassa in two tshuvas one in O”CH 4 other in the O”Ch in chelek tes (which I assume is 5)
ubiquitin
“R’ Moshe allows shaving for parnassa”
I would think he also expects one to check with his Rav if his particular case requires shaving and is considered required for parnassah.
what’s the over/under on WIY ever having held a real job in his life? 2%? 5%?
Brony
I have held more than one real job in my life. How many have you held? Other than your current one of knocking Halacha?
WIY
How would his Rav know?
Ah you must mean check with his boss. Ok efsher. Though he does not say that. He must assume we are dealing with grownups
WIY, if none of them required you to shave everyday, then step up or stop out. also, the number of jobs i’ve had is irrelevant because i’m not telling people to risk losing their jobs so they can keep sefirah.
“i’m not telling people to risk losing their jobs so they can keep sefirah.”
Most chassidim never shave or trim and it doesn’t effect their parnassah one bit. Some of the richest chassidim look like what you would probably call a messy slob and guess what they have more money than you will likely ever earn with your anti Halacha outlook.
“they have more money than you will likely ever earn with your anti Halacha outlook”
lol never change dude. never change.
WIY: I can’t answer for him because I don’t know his actual outlook. But there is nothing anti-Halachah about shaving during Sefirah to help keep a job. (Then again, if a person doesn’t know that it’s actually Muttar and does it anyway then it might be anti-Halachah. One of the Tannaim, maybe R’ Akiva, would cry for people like that.) And people with beards making money isn’t a proof of anything. A person is judged by his situation. If he has a job and shaving would endanger it, then it is a Davar Ha’aveid to shave and therefore it’s Muttar. Plain and simple.
Ask your LOR, If he says you can shave, then its not assur
Sam
I’m just saying that not everyone who takes the liberty to shave on sefira or chol hamoied really have to. Very few people actually “have to” and many are just taking advantage of a heter which isn’t necessarily for them.
P. S. Which jobs today would fire you for not shaving? Have you not noticed how dress codes have seriously been relaxed in the workplace?
WIY: I know of several people (I’ve asked around) who would be reprimanded immediately for appearing unkempt. But yes, that “several” would have been nearly everyone 50 years ago. Maybe in another 5-10 years there will be no Heter to shave for work during Sefirah. Then again, maybe workplaces will become much more strict and professional in the future. Each case needs to be judged. But most office jobs at serious firms or corporations will still “strongly recommend” you to be clean-shaven.
Wouldn’t the effect on shaving on your job have to do with whether you have a beard in the first place? My dad has a short beard, so you can’t really notice when he doesn’t trim it. The aforementioned chassidim have long beards all the time, so you don’t expect anything different from them during sefirah. You get used to them looking a certain way. But people who usually shave and show up in stubble just look shlumpy. It has a bad look, compared with someone who usually looks polished.
I’m not saying everyone should grow a beard AT ALL, but it does seem to make sefirah easier, if only to adjust people’s expectations of you from day 1.
Instead of adding my voice to the WIY-bashers, I’ll propose something worse (not): that the essence of halakhot and minhagim is, in fact, the reconciliation of different demands with each other and with external situations. This is why the Shulhan Arukh fills many volumes instead of a ten-page pamphlet and why hilkhot sefira fill a ten-page pamphlet instead of a single sheet. Shaving during sefira to keep one’s job reconciles clashing values — mourning the death of R. Akiva’s talmidim vs. supporting oneself as Hashem told us to in Bereshit — by allowing it only for that purpose. It isn’t a violation of minhag but part of it.
Rav aharon Lichtenstein at Gush says one should shave on Friday l’kavod Shabbos? Rav Solovetchik holds one can shave even every day if it would affect parnassah.
A lot of jobs require one to look well put-together and well-groomed. In America today, a scruffy unshared beard is a sign of being unkempt and is not professional. With that in mind, as well as Sam2’s point about davar ha’aveid in aveilus, l’chorah shaving is mutar.
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