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I know it’s assur according to most poskim but it still always bothered me. It was a takanah for the honor of Yom Tov so that be people shave for the first days and don’t push it off to Chol Hamoed… but as a result everyone looks like slobs for the second days! A takanah for the first days at the expense of the second days? I always feel guilty entering the second days with messy stubble even though I know (or at least I think) I’m doing the right thing.
Real men have beards. Shaving any time of the year is slobby. Refraining from shaving — any time of the year — is acting like a real mentch.
bubka:
Real men have beards. Shaving any time of the year is slobby. Refraining from shaving — any time of the year — is acting like a real mentch.
So, right after Yom Kippur, you just denigrated a large percentage of frum men who DO shave. Are you really that eager to ask mechila?
Real men have beards. Shaving any time of the year is slobby. Refraining from shaving — any time of the year — is acting like a real mentch.
Wow. You not only manage to insult and disparage thousands of yidden with two short lines, but you also didn’t even address the OP or any previous poster.
Great work for less than a week following Yom Kippur.
The Wolf
Simcha: Shailos Utshuvos Nodah Bihudah Orach Chayim 1:13, I believe.
sam2- are you forgetting what the chasam sofer wrote about that noda beyihuda?
Gevalt! The OP suggested that by following halacha and not shaving people look like “slobs”. I retorted that if anything people who do shave (and it would be remiss to not mention, even though there are those that differ, there are many authorities who maintain completely shaving is always forbidden) are the real slobs. And while the next two commenters took no umbrage with the OP’s characterization of calling followers of halacha as “slobs”, they only let loose their fury at me??
Chacham: Nope, didn’t forget. I am entirely unaware of it though. Care to enlighten me?
Simcha: I just re-read your OP. The Aruch Hashulchan brings up your precise point and says that if you shaved for the first days then you can shave for the second if you don’t look nice with a week of growth.
sam- teshuvas Oc 154– http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14663&pgnum=118
Also in igros rav moshe is only matir someone who has a huge tzoirach…..
Um? Are you planning to hire a starving poel to shave you?
also see the orchas chaim in 531 who brings down from the pachad yitzchak bsheim magidei haemes that the Noda biyehuda was chozer
see- http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=8760&st=&pgnum=194
sam- can you direct me to this aruch hashulchan?
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I retorted that if anything people who do shave (and it would be remiss to not mention, even though there are those that differ, there are many authorities who maintain completely shaving is always forbidden) are the real slobs
And you had to throw in the gratuitous insult that they’re “not real men.”
The Wolf
Loving the scholarly debate keep it coming.
Chacham: I’ll try and look it up. I was pretty sure it was him, but I could be wrong. I thought he was Mechalek between shaving and cutting fingernails and says that you can’t do the latter because even after a week those don’t look bad. I’ll have to look this up again. I could be misremembering things.
um r moshe states clearly that if someone shaves on chol hamoed just for beautifying one self it says
“ein limchos” because todays day people shave daily,therefore there is zero chance you wil not shave before yom tov……
Sam – I’m not getting involved in this discussion but just FYI that is probably the most contested opinion of the Noda BiYehuda out there.
Simcha613: You are absolutely wrong. Chas V’Shalom to call someone a slob because he follows the Torah, whereas your illogic leads to the conclusion that only by violating the Torah can one avoid being a slob.
This above point is absolute besides my previous point that between shaving and not shaving — all year round — if one is to be considered slobbish, it is the act of shaving – while not shaving is mentchlich.
And, no, an aveil is NOT a slob by not shaving. He would be a slob if he shaved.
And, no, an aveil is NOT a slob by not shaving. He would be a slob if he shaved.
You obviously have a different definition of “slob” than everyone else.
The Wolf
It is you with the “different” definition of slob.
Following the Torah is in no way, shape or form being “lazy”.
Period.
It is you with the “different” definition of slob.
It’s fairly obvious that you are the one with the misunderstanding since the rest of us understand that one can appear unkempt and messy even if the Torah commands it.
In any event, I don’t want to engage in a meaningless argument about the meaning of the word “slob” with you. I’ve got far better things to do. If you want to believe it means what you think it means, go right ahead.
The Wolf
Yitay: I had no idea. Oops…
yitai- the MOST contested opinion by the Nodah bejehudah? you took a poll? Incidentally, the nodah bejehudah wrote ttwo teshuvos on this subject, if memory serves me right.
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My opinion is that if one normally shaves every day, he must also shave on every day of chol ha’moed.
Old man, Rav Solooveichik paskened that way as does Rav Lichtenstein. However, most poskim disagree.
old-man
is that based on the Chasam Sofer I linked to?
Wolf,
Bunks is making a very valid which you are loathe to concede for some reason. There is a huge difference between appearing unkempt and being a slob. Were you chas vshalom to be an avel, you would understand if someone said you looked unkempt, you, and I think we can be specific here, would be highly offended if someone called you a slob.
While you may to be to busy to argue what the meaning of the word “slob” is, you should find time to consider why calling someone slob because he is following Halacha would be offensive to those follow Halacha.
By extrapolation you are calling many of our Gedolim and Rabonim slobs and I am sure Bubka is offended by that, rightly so, I might add.
you should find time to consider why calling someone slob because he is following Halacha would be offensive to those follow Halacha.
Actually, it seems that the majority of us here – who are following the Halacha – agree with him.
And anyway, there’s a difference between saying someone looks like a slob (which the OP correctly did) and saying that someone is a slob.
Someone who doesn’t shave during the times it is prohibited per the Torah does not even look like a slob. Chas V’Shalom to even say as such.
Chacham: Shkoyach for the actual words. But i still dont get why cutting nails is mutar ONLY if before Yom Tov it was fine, so why is shaving different if you shaved the 1st days?! Please enlighten me rabbosai. Gut moed & Shabbos!
i dont understand why any one would want to shave i’ve been growing a beard for 15 years it gets a bit itchy but people look at me respectfully. I’ve also been growing my nails for 15 years my wife gets upset but it’s a pain to cut
@shtiky shlob –
You serious?
Borderline apikorsus. (Not quite, perhaps, but really close.)
Avhaben: That’s not even close to Apikorsus. We say things like that all the time. In fact, the Nodah Bihudah said it first. R’ Schachter often says that if they had floss and toothbrushes in Chazal’s time that Chazal might have mandated doing that instead of waiting hours.
I think that all Divrei Toras Nigleh (even takanos) have deep reasons al pi sod so I wouldn’t suggest that the takanah wouldn’t be made nowadays unless I had done serious research into the topic. Also Chazal didn’t say that if you are in a place where daily shaves are the norm it is fine.
simcha– you are saying the noda beyehuda and every singel acharon since his time argued very strongly. se the above chasam sofer I linked. I suggest you learn through the inyan before you speak
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