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APY:
I find that an unpardonable sin. To totally mess up a bachur’s life for the sake of entertaining a girl, the emotional rollercoaster – disgusting.
RB. You will have to speak to them about it.
Ofcourse. I guess that is a risk they were willing to take.
Sac. There was ZERO intention for a second date from the outset on their part. She acted “like that” because she was 17, probably never spoke to a male not named tatty or zeidy prior to meeting me, probably didnt agree with her parents shenanigans and was probably worrying about a test she had the next day (did I forget to mention that I was led to believe she had finished high school, but in fact was in 12th grade?).
1dayatatime — lack of menschlechkeit in a Jewish person, male OR female, IS a horror. It has nothing to do with wanting perfection, and everything to do with wanting a minimum standard of respect and courtesy to be shown. What is so difficult about this concept that some of you cannot appreciate it? I never had a bad date EXCEPT when the guys were not menschlech. B”H I can count those on the fingers of one hand. Most of my dates, even though the guys were not for me, nor I for them, were decent and nice people. maybe three or four times I went out with guys who were better illustrations of Cro-Magnon Man. They had all the manners of a bull in a china shop, and the sensitivity of a rock.
While Yeshivas are busy teaching marriage-age bochurim about the Hilchos Ishus, they should likewise be teaching them about common courtesy, especially in a public place. If the Rebbie does not feel comfortable or qualified to teach such niceties as holding a door open for a young lady, asking her what she would like to order if they are going out to dinner, or walking her to her door (something which should be self-explanatory to an intelligent person), then they should find someone who CAN teach it, and then do so.
“did I forget to mention that I was led to believe she had finished high school, but in fact was in 12th grade?”
Something about this story isnt sitting right w me…
Did you not do any checking?
apy, “I guess that is a risk they were willing to take”
Then it wasnt that outrageous of them. I still dont buy it though. Maybe the 2 guys werent their idea of perfect Shiduchim, (who is?) but NO parents want their daughter going out with a guy who they have ZERO interest in.
oomis – lack of mentschlichkeit can provide for a bad date, not horror. My mother went out with someone who made her take the train home. that’s a horror. frightening. She also went out with someone who ate his entire meal before her’s even came out and then wanted to leave before she had a chance to eat. that is stupid, bulvanish, ill-mannered and a person who should not be getting married yet, but also, not a horror. There is nothing horrifying about it. At the worst, she had to grab a bite of food from her fridge when she got home. Do I feel bad that she had to spend time with that ogre? yes. but nothing frightful happened. Why use over-the-top words to describe things like not holding a car door open? Just curious, oomis: about how old are you? 30s? 40s? etc.
Yochi. Nobody was messed up. Certainly not for life. Lets not be so dramatic. I was simply sharing my worst date experience as is the topic of this thread.
Was just one big waste of an evening.
bochur,
Agreed
oomis, dunno,
I can certainly understand the pain of the girl/guy who was on the receiving end of a date where the other party lacked basic respect(been there, hopefuly never done that)
from:wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
I guess if you use the 2nd or 3rd defenition of those 3 defenitions, then you can use Horror to describe certain dates.
“While I fully agree with you that everyone should be a mensch, bad dates exist even if the guy is one.”
What was bad about it? The way you felt? The guy/girl?
If it was how “you” felt, I am %100 percent respectful about others feelings and would never disregard them. So you can say ” he/she was a nice person but I would not like to continue”
Was it circumstantial? Weather, cancilations? Beyond his control
But, if as you say that you had “bad dates” where the guy was mentchlach, and you still call it bad because of someway the guy appeared or you just simply didn’t like like him from the onset, then to call that BAD reeks of Gaava
A lack of being someone Dan l’kaf zechus has some hints of Gaava
Many Rebbes/Rosh Yeshivas say that it’s improper to talk to your friends about people you dated, for tznius reasons and lashon hara reasons
If you can share what was “Bad” about the dates where the guy was mentchlach so that i can better understand what you mean, that would be appreciated
I just cant stand what has become of dating and how scripted it has become
Have your mentor and follow their direction
All this talk and writing, not just in these forums,about dating and the likes, makes people sound like a bunch of objects who are expecting to marry objects
Sac and Ofcourse. How much checking do you expect a 22 year old guy, 500 miles from home, frustrated due to a canceled flight (and a shidduch that didnt work out after a number of dates with a different girl – is why I was in that city to begin with), who is being told of a “wonderful girl” from a “wonderful family” by a woman he met once before in his life (the previous day) but his hostess says she knows, all in the 4 hours before the date would have happened? Who do you expect I would have asked for information about this family? My hostess told me she barely knows the family who lives on the other side of town and the mother in law of a friend from yeshiva “didnt know the girl, but the parents are wonderful people”. Armed with all that info, and a quick call to my Rosh Yeshiva who said “do you have anything better to do tonight?” I agreed to go out. Do you think I should have asked “what grade is she in”? Would anyone in shidduchim? Do you feel that people in shidduchim have a right to assume certain things about people, say for example, they are out of high school?
Like I wrote earlier, it was a bad date, my worst ever. Take it however you want. 19 years later, I think it is humorous in a weird way, 19 years ago, I felt used.
i once went out with a guy who must have been out of touch with how to deal with other humans.. someone musta told him he should make eyecontact with the girl… so LITERALLY the entire date he was staring into my face extremely intensely.. i couldnt look up from my soda for more than 3 seconds at a time it was so intense and uncomfortable and my mind was on a constant AAAAAAAAAAH for 3 hours straight.. when we finally got into the car i was like pheeeew.. but he kept taking his eyes of the road to stare at me each time he made a coment.. if it wasnt so creepy it wldv been hilarious..
I do believe that many of these horror stories are due to lack of social graces on the part of one or both parties. Social graces can be taught to most people, and probably should be. Don’t you think schools should teach shidduchim skills so people can judge others on their true worth and not on how clumsily they navigate the world of dating?
I do believe that many of these horror stories are due to lack of social graces on the part of one or both parties.
Ah, so it was my lack of social graces that made it rain that night. 🙂
(Just kidding — I know you didn’t mean my story).
The Wolf
s2021…very funny!
dunno
aha! so now the truth finally comes out;)
Can’t really empathize about the 3′ heels, never tried it
Anyhew, the word “bad date” doesn’t sit well with me, it sounds to intense
I appreciate my dates either way
Heels, flats, doesn’t matter to
me
About that Thesaurus bit, there is
a mussag in Yiddishkeit to describe
things in an easy light matter
Shmooze
this wasnt a bad date, i actually really liked this guy, but its funny so ill share:
We went to Rockerfeller Center and parked in the underground parking a few blocks away. I am totally cool with walking in 5 inch heels with a a 2 inch platform (im guessing here) but when it came time to go back down the ramp to the car, I was terrified of falling, so as a joke I said I wish I had something to hold onto, so he put out his arm and linked arms…people told me its okay cause mesiras nefesh :))). Needless to say he was a great guy just not for me….
“people told me its okay cause mesiras nefesh :)))”
I am assuming that you mean sakanas nefashos?
so here’s a few stories:
1. a guy i met didn’t talk for the first ten or so minutes of the date. Feeling uncomfortable, i started talking and was asking him questions. he only answered in one word answers…. that didnt take us to far! after a long pause he started to talk…and talk… and talk! and not let me say ANyTHING! all the while he was talking negatively and critically! BAD DATE!
2. I was dressed properly for a first date. The boy took me to some park where my heels were getting stuck in everything.
3. A boy took me to Manhattan but didnt want to pay for parking. We drove all around Manhattan until we finally found a spot. Nowhere near there was too condusive for a date. We got back in the car and finally found parking by a coffee shop. But it was closing…. what a pity!!
still looking!!
“19 years later, I think it is humorous in a weird way”
Really? Sounds like there is still some animosity there…. just a ‘lil.
Goq,your story,I’d be traumatized!
I know of a girl who put in effort to make herself look appropriate – more than usual. The fellow, who was coming in from middle of the USA, ended up showing up at least two hours later than intended. Okay, understandable. Why didn’t he think ahead and take a nap at least or something so he wouldn’t have been tired out? The shadchon told the girl that, in a nutshell, she wasn’t attractive enough!
There are mitigating factors here for the boy’s side – but at the same time, to stop after going out once in such a circumstance . . .
I took a girl once to the Ice Capades at Madison Square Garden, then out to eat at Cheers (a nice restaurant which is no longer around). I drove her back to her apartment, then drove straight back to where I lived. (It was about a 4 hour drive from NY.) Since I arrived somewhere around 4 a.m., I decided I would get my stuff from the car in the morning. When I opened the trunk the next day, everything was gone – clothing, tefillin, everything. The most expensive date I ever had, up until the time I actually got engaged (to someone else.)
” Don’t you think schools should teach shidduchim skills so people can judge others on their true worth and not on how clumsily they navigate the world of dating? “
That would depend ENTIRELY on who it is who is doing the teaching?, would it not?
It was 12 minutes long,literally! As soon as he heard what i do, he decided we were not for each other. He said, “Hatzlocha” walked out and left me sitting there!
The one who said to my sister, “Whats the quickest route to drive you home?” They were only 5 bocks away!
morah reyna~ those are such hurtful experiences… it breaks my heart to hear them 🙁
Great stories.here are some of mine/ my friends
1.Guy had serious add or something he kept saying every few minutes,”so where should we go now” and the girl kept thinking just bringg me homee!
2. Guy drove me to a far lounge on a 1st date that normally doesn’t charge for parking. That weekend was a holiday or something and they charged.he turned around and went back to my area and basically after 2hrs of driving we had a quick half hour date and done.
3.Friends date was gpsing and not paying attentiion to the road and almost slammed into a car so my friend instinctively put out her hand and touched him righttt in his chest.she was dyingggg of mortification.
4.One guy I dated talked about himself for 2dates straight without asking me a single question about myself and actually thought I’d marry him
5.One guy I dated picked me up in such a jalopy he had to stop middate to go under the car and check out why its making a noise
6.Gotta stop here before I reveal any of the really wild ones!
“Friends date was gpsing and not paying attentiion to the road and almost slammed into a car so my friend instinctively put out her hand and touched him righttt in his chest.she was dyingggg of mortification.”
Big whoop. Grow up.
girl’s heels got caught in the sidewalk and she was falling… the guy says to her “um what should I do now?” she said “too late I am pulling on you already…” he must have not realized. she married him
Sac: that story from girl22 IS mortifying, like she said. Obviously it was a mistake, but there is shomer negiah. So yes it was a mistake, but no we are not happy or proud it happened.
I really don’t mean to engage in schadenfreude, but every time I read a thread like this, I thank God that He never allowed me to go on a bad date. Even the date I described on the first page of this thread was, in fact, a good and enjoyable date (albeit one where nothing went as planned).
The Wolf
I really don’t mean to engage in schadenfreude,
It depends. If schadenfreude means using big foreign words that nobody knows, then you probably do mean to engage in it. :-))
popa
i think you just made an ad hominomominium attack
Yes, I suppose I did.
Schadenfreude- a German word that describes German WW2 behavior.
: (
i thought it was what freuds children experienced when they found out what their father was actually saying
what better- not to date at all or to go out and feel like you are getting somewhere but have a bad experience (like any of the stories above)?
Big whoop, indeed, because of who was in which role.
Had the roles been reversed, I’m not so sure the “dying of mortification” reaction would have been as unexpected.
(Still not a warranted reaction, mind you; but I could at least see why it would be uncomfortable.)
So next time let him go flying out the window… that will definitely be on his list of worst dates.
bpt
I was going to say something to that effect, but couldnt figure out how to make it sound clean. Kudos!
Have you seen these scrawny things they are calling men these days? Pfft.
You should still be dan lkaf zchus. It was probably a reflective reaction.
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