Shalom Bayis Question

Agree to get a housekeeper until 6 weeks after the baby (Bezras Hashem), and she agrees to revisit the issue with a clean slate at that point.

She is probably so bent out of shape due to the pregnancy, that she can’t think about cleaning. Its normal, deal with it (and I’m a guy).

In the short term, you need to talk about it.

Here’s how to talk about it:

1. Tell her “I love you and so much appreciate all the work you do in the house” (mention some specifics, like if she washed the dishes for Shabbos or did laundry). Tell her how you think about her at work and wonder how she’s feeling. Ask her how she feels.

2. Stop. Listen to what she tells you. Agree with whatever she says. Don’t say anything more about the cleaning except compliments if you notice she did something. Also compliment her on other things.

3. Wait AT LEAST 24 hours. That way she won’t think you only care about the cleaning lady issue. Repeat Steps 1 and 2. Only go onto Step 4 when you haven’t argued about anything else that day.

4. Do Steps 1 and 2 again. Now you can bring up the cleaning lady. Be honest and say you’d really rather not hire a cleaning lady. You’d be happy to help, but you’re tired when you come home, so if she could please tell you something you can do that takes less than 10 minutes before work you’d be happy to. Would that be enough of a help?

5. If she says Yes, do whatever she asks for. She probably just didn’t feel appreciated and your compliments and participating fixed that. Have her keep you company while you clean and mention how happy you are to spend time helping her.

6. If she says No, it wouldn’t help, get a cleaning lady. Don’t fight with her because you just can’t win. If you don’t get a cleaning lady, she’ll feel like you don’t care about her even more. If you do get one, make sure you don’t act like you resent it, make it an act of love so she doesn’t feel like you resent helping her. Either way, you’ll be much happier than if you keep on letting everything turn into an argument.

Also, I agree with all the posters who are going to say you should go for marital counseling.

If you can afford it there is no reason in the world you are holding back cleaning help from your wife! unless you are a very controlling man why wouldnt you want your wife to have it easy, did you marry her to be your slave? yes if you cant afford it, its another story. like my mother told my brothers before they got married, most imp things in life to spend money on is shelter, food, insurance and help for your wife.

Dear Mr Indignant Over-Worked House Cleaning Slave,

According to recent scientific studies and logic you are not only causing pain and resentment in your wife; whos body has bloated and changed in a way she has never experienced as well as the emotional roller-coaster she is currently going through; and seemingly on her own, you are also harming your child and when your 15 year old rebels against you and tells you they hate you, you at least will be able to pin point the origins of this resentment your are currently inculcating in them.

B’sha Tova

Newhus, Congrats on your recent marriage!!

Forgive me for making assumptions, but I’m thinking if you got married, you’re an adult.

If so, you’re not the little boy who went shopping with his mother before Shabbos and chose the candy corn, And the twizzlers, And the marshmallows, And the sour belts. The choices are tougher now. And you might not be able to get every single thing you choose.

In the example you gave us, it seems pretty clear, you can have the smiling, happy wife, or the wife who scrubs and shines your floors.

Pick one.

The choice is yours.

You should have told her to ask, so that we could all tell HER that it isn’t worth it and to just clean so you’ll be happy.

Also, I agree with all the above posters.

And it isn’t a stirah, you both need your needs met.

BTW, I have a great rav who I discuss my shalom bayis with. I get great advice and it has saved my shalom bayis on various occasions (usually he tells me to give in!). I highly recommend a rav or mentor to discuss future issues with.

BTW, I agree with your basic premise. Why do women need someone else to vacuum, mop, etc.? especially if they’re not working outside the home? But, if that’s their expectation going in, if that’s what they are used to seeing by your shvigger, then you need to accommodate it.

Good luck. Don’t forget that giving in keeps the Shechina in your home! What more can you ask for!

you say that your wife “does not WANT to care for our home.” I don’t agree with that statement at all. she does want to care for your home, but her way of doing it is by hiring a cleaning lady. just do it. then in a month come back here and tell us if it was worth it.

and b’shaah tova on your baby. don’t take it for granted that you will iyh be receiving a special gift so soon after your marriage.

And to all those wondering why women need cleaning help…imagine if you will, (in the days before computers) you spent nearly 3 hours completing a particular draft for an upcoming deal. Unfortunately, your spouse came along and spilled coffee on it. Argh! So you sit down to do it again. Ahh! Finished! Only to have your five year old use it as scrap paper to practice cutting with scissors. Argh! So you do it again. Another three hours. Whew! Oh no…the baby just threw up on it! You cannot believe that you have to do it all over again!

My point? cleaning a house is an endless job. As soon as you finish cleaning it, someone is messing it up and you have to do it all over again. As opposed to your 9-5 job, this one is 24/7. If you dont want to hire cleaning help then agree not to EVEN SLIGHTLY mess up any of the cleaning work she already did. Doesn’t sound liveable? Then hire a cleaning lady so you wont be constantly ruining you wife’s hard work. Imagine how frustrated would you be with your wife if she kept deleting the files you were working on and then asked how come you still have work to do?

Newhusband, you only know the house of your parents from when you were old enough to remember it. You don’t know to what extent it was clean when you were little. Unless your mother had cleaning help, chances are pretty good the house was not so pristine.

Pregnancy is tiring. You will never be able to imagine what it is like. And since your wife never experienced it before, she can’t yet distinguish between what feelings will last forever and what will pass as she regains her stength. Yaakov Avinu also asked to sit “b’Shalva” but IY”H you are on the cusp of what will become the busiest and messiest period in your life. But mark my words, these days fly by and when it is again only the two of you in the house you will be begging for the grandchildren to come over and mess it up a bit! Maintain shalom bayis over everything else and don’t stop thanking Hashem for your amazingly good fortune!

Newhusband-

Seriously? Your wife is pregnant. She wants a cleaning lady. If you can’t help her, then stop being abusive and for xxxxxx’s sake! GET HER SOME CLEANING HELP!!!! What is up with men? SO insensitive.

End rant.

Please don’t use your great upbringing against her. Think of it this way, it is her feeling to have help and it iss your feeling not to. Why is one feeling better than the other? Go with the Meikil.

Although she says now that she’ll always need it, it doesn’t mean anything. You can’t imagine enjoying stake when your stomach is aching. And even if it turns out that she will always need it, back to the first sentence: don’t use your great upbringing against someone else.

You’re wife is pregnant. She isn’t showing any interest in cleaning the house. Maybe ask her why.

Either she will explain to you that she physically feels lousy, fatigued, lethargic etc.

Or she will explain to you that she is mildly depressed.

I understand that you don’t feel that your marriage at this point is 50/50. It usually isn’t. Marriage is 90/90 (alter Novominsker Rebbetzin). When everybody gives 90% of what they have, then it’s a successful marriage. Give in, give in and give in. There will be a time that you will receive more than you deserve as well.

newhusband, you sound like you are really trying hard and I think most of the posters here are being too hard on you. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to continue to compliment your wife on everything she does, and to say nothing (or very little) about the things she doesn’t do. Compliments feel good. The more she sees that you appreciate her, the more she’ll be motivated to do more for you.

Shana Rishona is amazing and wonderful in many ways, but it’s also very difficult. Give yourself some credit, and give your wife some credit. Your lives have just drastically changed, and they’re about to drastically change again. B’sha’ah tova, and please keep us posted!

And to old man,

I am not an adolescent or semi-literate… it does not seem that this couple is in need of professional counseling at all. The money they would spend on a therapist can be better used on cleaning help.

One more note: Being Mechanech her was her parent’s job. You weren’t Mechanech your friends, don’t be Mechanech your wife. You can use your display of appreciation to convey what matters more to you.

Witholding it for a lesson is the worst reason to do so.

Shanna Rishona is actually about making her happy, not the other way around. I don’t know if you are aware of your own shortcomings or not, but people have these things. If it turns out that it will remain this way, work around it or with it.

You didn’t really gain each other’s confidence enough be able to discuss disposition changes without sounding (or feeling) like you are having second thoughts about the marriage.

When I was a newlywed, an in-law who qualifies as da’at Torah gave me his view on dividing up the housework without my asking: each of us, he said, should see him/herself as responsible for all the housework.

It has worked rather well for 31 years.

I agree with those who said you should agree to get a housecleaner.

You seem concerned that she doesn’t want to take care of the house. But even if she has a housecleaner, even one that comes let’s say more than once a week, there are still so many things she’ll have to do herself. A housecleaner can’t do everything.

Most importantly, read and put into practice the teachings of the book Garden of Peace by Rav Shalom Arush. I won’t describe the teachings here because the book is supposed to be read by men only, and that’s for a good reason. But I strongly believe his teachings are truly the key to shalom bayis.

Shalom bayis is not a common sense matter of doing what seems right to you at the time. You need to understand the underlying principles, something the book does really well (and unlike any other shalom bayis book.)

I have realized I was doing many things wrong, and whenever something goes wrong with shalom bayis I realize it is because I failed to fulfill the teachings of that book. Conversely, whenever I do what the book says, my shalom bayis problems go away just like that. It’s that good!

Am I being unreasonable to not allowing her to hire a housekeeper”

In a word YES. I am not yet reading anyone else’s responses, because I had such a visceral reaction to your post. I think you sound like a good husband and person. But unless your wife was like this before pregnancy, you cannot possibly know how tiring pregnancy is for all of the nine months. I used to fall asleep sitting up during my lunch hour at work. I was physically uncomfortable as I became larger, and didn’t have the energy I needed to work full time and then work at home as well. Even when I stopped working in the last trimester, I literally had no energy on a regular basis. I did the laundry, the cooking, and shopping, but couldn’t do major housework and cleaning.

Give your wife a break. Unless she has been acting like a princess since you met her, compromise and get her cleaning help for a couple of hours once a week to do the heavy work (floors, carpets, bed making, etc.), Show her that you understand. After the baby comes, it will be MUCH harder for her to keep a neat house. Some women are such behriyahs that they can do it all. Many cannot, and should not be made to feel like lesser persons because of that. If money is not an issue, hire someone. Most people do.

You really do sound like a good guy, so please think about this. I haven’t had cleaning help for over 15 years, but when I was pregnant and/or had children running around, I really could not handle the workload myself at all.

*****I just decided to read some of the other posts. Please reread the wisdom that many gave over. You are a newlywed. Do what you have to, to keep the woman who is carrying your baby, happy, and bless her for being the one that gets to feel all the discomforts of pregnancy, labor, and delivery, that you do not, while bringing this child into the world b’shaa tova. AND, all this, while adjusting to the first year of marriage. Don’t forget to tell her how much you value and appreciate her. Hatzlacha rabbah.

Do your definitions of a clean home differ? Are your expectations of cleanliness such that you expect to be able to lick the floors, while she is happy that there are no visible crumbs? If your standards are different and she says get a cleaning lady to meet your standards, then she is right, hire a cleaning lady. she is your wife, not your cleaning lady. I also agree that since she is pregnant, you agree to hire one until 68 weeks after the baby is born b’ezras hashem to give her time to get back on her feet.

From the perspective of 43 years of successful marriage let me offer the following example:

Avrohom Avinu was among the greatest men who ever lived and the father of us all. Yet when it came to a major disagreement with Sarah, HaShem said, “listen to your wife”. And this wasn’t about tidying up the tent. It was about disowning Avrohom’s bechor.

You want a long, happy and successful marriage? Listen to your wife. Your success in life, in parnassa, in learning is through the zechuyos of your wife. do what she says.

I have to hand it to google. they really have their algorithms down to a science. I happened to disable ad blocker earlier today, and when opening this thread there was a google ad for todaysmaid.com 🙂

DY. Whats a dash between friends!

newhusband,

I’m going to get a housecleaner for the sake of shalom bayis,

It might do better for your shalom bayis if you see this decision as an opportunity to bring pleasure to your wife (selfless), rather than to avoid arguments that you resent (selfish).

but I have a feeling it will solve the symptoms (dirty home), but not the underlying problem (caring for the home). How do I deal with that issue is what I am looking to figure out.

Why on earth do you think that you can ascertain holistic “underlying problems” with your wife’s attitudes towards the home after less than a year of marriage, where for all but one month of that time she has been pregnant? Honestly, I think it’s possible that the root of your problem is that you are blowing these “minor” disagreements way out of proportion and using them to make sweeping conclusions about your home and marriage. No wonder your wife cries when you have a disagreement – she tells you that she doesn’t like cleaning and wants household help and you imply that your marriage will be irrevocably harmed because she’s an unfit wife and mother in your eyes! Even if you didn’t say it, she can feel it with your “hints”. Stop judging what kind of mother your wife will be before your baby is even born, and what kind of wife she’ll be 1, 5, or 10 years down the road!

My advice to you:

1. Take almost nothing your wife says or does personally during pregnancy. I think you are seriously underestimating how pregnancy affects your wife. She is changing inside and out, and that can make anyone feel very insecure. She doesn’t want to clean up now, but for all you know, once the nesting instinct kicks into high gear, she may feel like you don’t care enough about the house!

2. Deal with the present issues during any discussion or disagreement, not future speculations. Whatever you decide for how to keep things clean now, make that decision considering only the current needs, and stop extrapolating what it means to your marriage years down the road – especially for issues regarding parenthood. Don’t judge things that you haven’t even seen yet.

3. From what you have written in this thread, you obviously see cleaning the house as a burden to yourself, using words like “significant” and “chores”. So why does it bother you that your wife sees it in the same light?

4. Instead of dropping “hints” (disapproval and disconnection), start cleaning and engage your wife with conversation while you do it (connection). Any chore is more fun when you have company, and you will likely end up sharing yourselves and the jobs more.

5. Notice and express appreciation for what she does.

I don’t want to fix the symptoms by throwing money at the problem today because its going to morph into a bigger problem tomorrow.

You are not a navi – stick to the present.

I feel very open-minded on trying different things to change the dynamic in the home but at the same time giving in anytime my wife wants something will only make me upset.

Stop viewing things as “me vs. her”. A happy wife is a huge win for you. Instead of keeping score and focusing on whether you or she have had your way, focus on solving the problem at hand.

I don’t want to resent her,

Then don’t. You are in complete control of your feelings.

“Please try to articulate your concerns in a clearer way.”

His wife is probably writing on a blog somewhere how her husband has some problem with her housekeeping, but isnt being clear what the problem is and how it frustrates her to no end.