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wanderingchana -“Health, thanks for helping me make my point. Chag kasher v’sameach, and hatzlacha with, you know, everything.”
OMG, your sarcasm has just blown me away. I don’t know how to respond to such wit.
Chana thanks for helping me make my point. Chag kasher v’sameach, and hatzlacha with, you know, your marriage. You really should make your husband either Really learn or go out to work if he can’t!
Juuuust a minute! I don’t want to be grouped with Health on this one! I think his comments are nuts.
a mamin – excuse me, that’s a very stupid assumption. Explaining the difficulty in a situation in no way implies that I did not come through. I feel very confident saying that my wife found me EXTREMELY supportive throughout her pregnancies (and late miscarriage, and journey getting pregnant. But thats a different story.)
oomis – Despite agreeing with the facts, I don’t see the basis for comparing the two and deciding on the more difficult. The physical hardships of the woman in no way diminish the emotional toll it takes on the husband.
All the women here can go read all their comments on the threads about marriage, and the emotional support they think its all about (G-d forbid to have any expectations in any other realm). Now picture your husband taking a siesta from his eomtional duties for several MONTHS. Why can’t you understand that months of the lack of the usual interaction with your spouse, coupled with the need to be an especially attentive spouse from your end (and lets not mention the difficulty of the women’s usual lack of interest in certain areas during these times, ‘cuz ther’s no way you’ll understand THAT), is very difficult ?
It’s very simple. Most of us are not angels, and to be by and large on the giving end, with minimal receiving, emotionally, socially, etc. is a huge task.
Of course, this whole topic begs another question:
Why do we bother dating and picking a spouse if they will be (hopefully) hormonal and “not themselves” for most (pregnancy, nursing, periods) of the next twenty years ?! 🙂
Logician – Excuse me. Did your wife give you permission to stop cleaning and come post here?
Ok, breaks over -now back to work!
1)I don’t clean – I HELP to clean.
2)My wife is not my boss to give me permission to do anything – we make decisions together about topics that affect us mutually.
Logician – After your comment towards me -what do you expect?
“1)I don’t clean – I HELP to clean.
2)My wife is not my boss to give me permission to do anything – we make decisions together about topics that affect us mutually.”
This post reminds me of the joke -that after 120 there are two lines to get into for males. One for the henpecked husbands & one for the Non-henpecked husbands. The line for the henpecked husbands stretches as far as the eye can see. In the line for the Non-henpecked husbands – there is one lonely guy. They go over to him & ask -“How come you’re in this line?” -wanting to know why he is different than e/o else. He answers -“Because my wife told me to stand in this line!”
oomis – Despite agreeing with the facts, I don’t see the basis for comparing the two and deciding on the more difficult. The physical hardships of the woman in no way diminish the emotional toll it takes on the husband.
Logician, I don’t doubt that many men suffer greatly along with their wives, from the wives’ mood swings and physical discomforts (more so, if the pregnancy chalilah is a truly difficult one, where the mother or baby’s lives are in jeopardy, in which case, yes, I think the emotional toll can be devastating on the husband, and he needs some TLC at such a time).
But the bottom line – she, not you guys, is going through these changes and trust me when I say it is no picnic for her, either, to be so moody and weepy and scared and nauseous and tired beyond belief and fat and with swollen ankles to match the swollen belly and really uncomfortable (can you imagine a little person sitting on your liver – it really,really hurts!) and did I meantion running to the bathroom every five minutes (and I mean that in the most literal sense in the last weeks of pregnancy). No matter HOW MUCH men think they are experiencing a great emotional toll (and I will cop to that being the case for many), they still do not have a reasonable clue as to what the pregnancy is really doing to their wives, even in the best case scenario. And the fact that any man could think of himself as being somehow victimized by an emotional toll (and when did it ever become about him?), demonstrates strongly that such a man even if he is a wonderful husband as I am sure you are, doesn’t quite get it.
After you become pregnant, break your water while on line at the check out counter, go into labor, and deliver a baby, I will empathize with your position a bit more. Until then, thank your Maker every day for not making you a woman. Oh wait, you do that already. Think about the fundamental literal meaning of that bracha. BTW, in case you are reading this as a mussar schmooze, it is not intended that way. I think that your way of thinking is pretty typical for most really nice, fine men. But try to remember that this is not about you. For once, it’s all about her.
Oomis +1
The woman-bashing lately has really been disgusting. There’s no excuse for it. Well, you can come up with any excuse you want, but that doesn’t make it a good excuse, it just displays bad middos. This isn’t a locker room (or a mikvah).
oomis, love your post again.
wanderingchana, I agree. Perhaps my idea from a few months ago should be implemented, and we should have female mods to delete all the garbage shoveled in by some of the men here.
Health – I have to show my wife your post. She’d get a real kick out of the idea of me being henpecked. I don’t even understand the idea.
oomis – I understand what your saying, but continuously bringing examples of the physical hardships of pregnancy does not prove your point. I have been through several with my wife, and am (way too!) familiar with all those details.
My point still stands. That is one issue, and the difficulty of the husband is another. I wasn’t bothered by your opinion on which is worse – I just don’t think it makes sense to make the comparison at all.
Why is it “all about her” ? When a man is sick c”v, and the entire household is in turmoil, is it “all about him” ? Would the wife not be entitled to her support etc. ?
We’re not discussing feeling like a victim, simply the legitimization of the his problem.
MP, I’ve got my chometzdig shovel ready.
Oh – and I think you’re rally demeaning women by your interpretation of the brocho “shelo asani isha”.
Sort of like “Thank you G-d, for not making me a dog, so I don’t have fleas”.
“When a man is sick c”v, and the entire household is in turmoil, is it “all about him” ? Would the wife not be entitled to her support etc.?”
How sick is sick c”vs? When is the woman entitled to anything when it’s her job to take care of the kids when they’re sick?
Besides, pru ervu isn’t on women, but only women can enable men to fulfill it, at risk to their own lives, and we do it anyway.
Sorry WC, totally did not understand your post ?
and I’m waiting for oomis to answer, (cuz I find that she has a lot of common sense), not her fan club who like it when she stands up for women, without addressing any points on the issue.
Wow! i have to say i was very surprised to read most of these posts! Is this thread is a joke?! Please tell me that you guys are joking!!
As a woman, I have to say that of course the difficulties of a pregnancy are the woman’s; after all that was the curse of Chava. That being said, of course husbands have to be acknowledged and thanked for their patience and support throughout. Which is why I buy my husband a (small) gift and a card after each baby. It’s a way of showing thanks for doing his best to alleviate my discomfort, whether it’s giving up his Shabbos afternoon nap so I can sleep when I am overwhelmingly fatigued, whether it’s giving yet another back rub to ease the lower back pain, etc. Of course I’m the one experiencing all the discomforts and pain but he is there for me throughout and husbands thrive on being acknowledged and appreciated. It’s what makes them come back to give you more. So yes, woman have it much much harder than men but that doesn’t mean the men don’t deserve acknowledgment and thanks.
miritchka -“Please tell me that you guys are joking!!”
No, this is Not a joke. Despite some women (and maybe some men)posting their emotional outbursts on my posts -I do empathize when they are really ill or when they are having a really hard pregnancy.
But yet noone has addressed the point of my posts and that is:
There are women who will play up situations like pregnancy and/or sickness for whatever reasons. How come noone will admit this?
And second of all, how should this be dealt with from a woman’s perspective?
lovebeingjewish – +10
This didn’t happen to me when my ex was pregnant, but it happened other times.
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